PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by nimshady

So I work at Septa and heard 3 things that might interest yall. Don't know how reliable they are but I did hear them.

Source please?

First Comcast 3 is definitely going to happen which I think most people suspected.

Sure is, but did you know about the search for nearby property for the fourth Comcast office building?

We are talking about Philadelphia’s very own "Rockefeller Center" with interconnected subway access, tunnels including retail shops.

Second the apartment building going up at 21st and Hamilton should start construction before the summers end.

Okay.

Third that there should be a 35 story tower atop the gallery will start construction once the gallery is finished renovation.

I will believe that when I see it.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy;





I will believe [b

that[/b] when I see it.

RE. Apartments to be built over the Gallery

I realize that there are many moving parts that have to come together to get a project actually built but why do you think this is doubtful? If Market East is successful in filling their two towers in a timely fashion I think building atop the gallery would make a lot of sense----it would have perfect access to mass transport, close to and on top of shopping, and for the developers being able to use existing foundations is a big BIG saving in hard costs and in time. No demo of any existing buildings, no underground unknowns, no digging, and all the engineering costs related to all that. The first beam that gets installed is already 5 floors up. If a year can be sliced off the construction schedule that means less handling costs on borrowed construction money and the project starts earning cash flow that much earlier. Having 250+ customers live above your shopping mall wouldn't hurt that side of their business either. But that's just me, and they haven't asked for opinion!

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by City Wide

RE. Apartments to be built over the Gallery

I realize that there are many moving parts that have to come together to get a project actually built but why do you think this is doubtful? If Market East is successful in filling their two towers in a timely fashion I think building atop the gallery would make a lot of sense----it would have perfect access to mass transport, close to and on top of shopping, and for the developers being able to use existing foundations is a big BIG saving in hard costs and in time. No demo of any existing buildings, no underground unknowns, no digging, and all the engineering costs related to all that. The first beam that gets installed is already 5 floors up. If a year can be sliced off the construction schedule that means less handling costs on borrowed construction money and the project starts earning cash flow that much earlier. Having 250+ customers live above your shopping mall wouldn't hurt that side of their business either. But that's just me, and they haven't asked for opinion!

I don't doubt SOME kind of tower will be constructed on top the Gallery, and sooner would be better than later. But I didn't think it was equipped to support a 35 story tower. That is over 400 feet. Nothing close to that tall is shown in the renderings that do show towers.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

Sure is, but did you know about the search for nearby property for the fourth Comcast office building?

We are talking about Philadelphia’s very own "Rockefeller Center" with interconnected subway access, tunnels including retail shops.

For fuck's sake, if they're going to build *two* more towers, why don't they just build them in Schuylkill Yards? That would get that project moving, assuming we don't get HQ2.
That way they'd have buildings in the commercial district, and a campus in the technology district. This is not Philadelphia's Rockefeller Plaza.
Rockefeller Plaza works because it was all planned as a cohesive campus, even though it took many years to complete. There is one main skyscraper (ironically the Comcast Building), and many smaller buildings, all planned to be together so it is one cohesive campus. Comcast seems to be slapping this together. As you said, they are "searching for property" for #4, so they have no idea where it will go yet if it gets built at all. There's no unity, there's no central plan. The two buildings that are essentially built now were designed by two different architects, and I'm sure 3 and 4 will have two other architects. Rockefeller was master planned, and designed. Comcast has no such forethought, they are just doing it on the fly.
So they might as well take advantage of the SY / 30th Street District opportunity, and at least have *some* cohesiveness.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

For fuck's sake, if they're going to build *two* more towers, why don't they just build them in Schuylkill Yards? That would get that project moving, assuming we don't get HQ2.
That way they'd have buildings in the commercial district, and a campus in the technology district. This is not Philadelphia's Rockefeller Plaza.
Rockefeller Plaza works because it was all planned as a cohesive campus, even though it took many years to complete. There is one main skyscraper (ironically the Comcast Building), and many smaller buildings, all planned to be together so it is one cohesive campus. Comcast seems to be slapping this together. As you said, they are "searching for property" for #4, so they have no idea where it will go yet if it gets built at all. There's no unity, there's no central plan. The two buildings that are essentially built now were designed by two different architects, and I'm sure 3 and 4 will have two other architects. Rockefeller was master planned, and designed. Comcast has no such forethought, they are just doing it on the fly.
So they might as well take advantage of the SY / 30th Street District opportunity, and at least have *some* cohesiveness.

I don’t think I’d like a cluster of our largest skyscrapers to look the same. I like Liberty 1 and 2, but if there were 3 and 4 it would be boring. Plus it would scream “COMCAST OWNS US”. Not a huge fan of the Renaissance Center in Detroit.

[iheartphilly]

^
Maybe they have a thing with LPT since LPT did Comcast 1 and 2. And, LPT doesn't control any of the land or is the lead developer at SY or 30th station district. Brandywine Realty is the developer for SY and 3Oth in connection with Drexel and others. So, kind of a local rivalry thing going from what I can tell. But, nonetheless, I would love to see another or two highrises for Comcast. Just hoping they announce that this year. Otherwise, the cart is before the horse.

[Inquizative]

Well, there is already a tower crane on top of the Gallery and it's a heavy duty one. Some said it is there to build a couple floors for a movie theater but I think it may be much more than a few floors. The Gallery's foundation and design was initially built to support a highrise building, so I'm sure the foundation can support a 400 ft building. Most high rise buildings in Philly before the 'Gentleman's Agreement' to not build higher than Billy Penn's hat hovered around 3-450 feet anyway. I think something at least as tall as the Aramark building may be on it's way.

[nimshady]

Sorry for taking so long to respond and keeping you in suspense. I pretty much told you all I know. I was with one of the people responsible for detouring bus routes during lane closures because of construction. He recently had a pre construction meeting with the 21st and Hamilton folks. He was complaining about the issues around the gallery and I said at least the construction should be wrapping up soon and he said that once they finish that they will start on the tower. I'm not sure how reliable this is. The 21st and Hamilton seems very reliable since he was in a meeting but I'm not sure how reliable the gallery is, I'm hoping it is, that crane does seem pretty heavy duty for only a few floors...

[hammersklavier]

We all know PREIT has a bad habit of keeping things in house long after they become open secrets, like how the new BCF was obvious months before the announcement.

We also know that there are three overbuild platforms built in to the Gallery. My hunch is that the apartment project we've heard rumors about will be constructed on the platform at the SW corner of 10th and Filbert, across the street from the Greyhound station, as the last time I was by that way it appeared they were knocking out paneling up there independent of the work being done for the movie theater.

The 21st and Hamilton site has seen so many starts and stops over the years, I'll believe it when I see it.

A lot of large companies like to work with single landlords. LPT seems to be Comcast's preferred landlord so Brandywine's gonna need to lure somebody else into SY (Amazon maybe?).

[Tatts]

"Well, there is already a tower crane on top of the Gallery and it's a heavy duty one. Some said it is there to build a couple floors for a movie theater but I think it may be much more than a few floors."

I think you're right. When I posted about that crane popping up over a weekend, I thought it was way too large for a small project like adding a story or two for a movie theater. Glad to see that more seems to be coming to the area. But taller than the Aramark tower? That would be a surprise.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Tatts

"Well, there is already a tower crane on top of the Gallery and it's a heavy duty one. Some said it is there to build a couple floors for a movie theater but I think it may be much more than a few floors."

I think you're right. When I posted about that crane popping up over a weekend, I thought it was way too large for a small project like adding a story or two for a movie theater. Glad to see that more seems to be coming to the area. But taller than the Aramark tower? That would be a surprise.

As I understand it, regardless if the crane looks large enough to pull of the feat, the area the crane is located is not capable of supporting a skyscraper. Idk maybe, it was cheaper to rent a heavy duty crane long term and it will eventually be moved to one of the skyscraper pads, but the work being done now is seemingly only for a movie theater, nothing more.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

For fuck's sake, if they're going to build *two* more towers, why don't they just build them in Schuylkill Yards? That would get that project moving, assuming we don't get HQ2.
That way they'd have buildings in the commercial district, and a campus in the technology district. This is not Philadelphia's Rockefeller Plaza.
Rockefeller Plaza works because it was all planned as a cohesive campus, even though it took many years to complete. There is one main skyscraper (ironically the Comcast Building), and many smaller buildings, all planned to be together so it is one cohesive campus. Comcast seems to be slapping this together. As you said, they are "searching for property" for #4, so they have no idea where it will go yet if it gets built at all. There's no unity, there's no central plan. The two buildings that are essentially built now were designed by two different architects, and I'm sure 3 and 4 will have two other architects. Rockefeller was master planned, and designed. Comcast has no such forethought, they are just doing it on the fly.
So they might as well take advantage of the SY / 30th Street District opportunity, and at least have *some* cohesiveness.

Makes no sense from a business perspective for Comcast to create a "split" campus. They are running a multi-billion dollar company. It's not all about cohesiveness in design and architecture. It's about proximity and efficiency. There are plenty of plots around their existing buildings that could hold "Tower 4". Having moved my own offices to 41st and Powelton, primarily for the tax benefits, I can tell you there are a lot of downsides to working out there. I would not split off 2 major buildings from 2 other major buildings if I was them.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Makes no sense from a business perspective for Comcast to create a "split" campus. They are running a multi-billion dollar company. It's not all about cohesiveness in design and architecture. It's about proximity and efficiency. There are plenty of plots around their existing buildings that could hold "Tower 4". Having moved my own offices to 41st and Powelton, primarily for the tax benefits, I can tell you there are a lot of downsides to working out there. I would not split off 2 major buildings from 2 other major buildings if I was them.

Proximity is no longer such an issue. If you'll recall, Comcast is a *tele*communications company. It would be nice if they could all be together, but I wouldn't think it'd be necessary.
I hope they are not able to assemble enough property to build 2 more towers, and instead build just one megatall (2000'+) building, if they don't go for my SY idea.

[Milksteak]

Since we have some folks apparently in the know, where will Comcast 3 go? If I recall correctly, people were talking about 19th and Arch and having them knock down that charter school...but I recall seeing an article that the school was undergoing a multi-million dollar renovation. Since Comcast 3 sounds imminent, I wouldn't expect them to go in that location. Anybody know?

[Jawnadelphia]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Arch+S...3524b192c!8m2!3d39.9554141!4d-75.1711372

Let's go for a walk:

I know Liberty owns the parking lot on the corner at 19th and Arch.
Then there is the Byers School--that has been doing renovations/construction in the back of the building (they dont seem to be going anywhere).

Keep walking down Arch Street, and the next parking lot on the other side of Byers, Liberty also owns that too.

Keep walking further down the street, and Liberty owns the parking lot on the other side of the street, at the corner of 20th and Arch (across the street from the Indian joint). I think Liberty also owns the building with mural girl as well.

Is my understanding....

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

Proximity is no longer such an issue. If you'll recall, Comcast is a *tele*communications company. It would be nice if they could all be together, but I wouldn't think it'd be necessary.
I hope they are not able to assemble enough property to build 2 more towers, and instead build just one megatall (2000'+) building, if they don't go for my SY idea.

That's ridiculous.

It would make everything else in the sky line look tiny.

Scale is important. I'm all about super talls but let's get another 5-10 600'-700' ers before we start demanding 2,000 ft tall skyscrapers.

There's plenty of blank space in the skyline that needs to be filled without being vacuumed up by one immense building.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

Proximity is no longer such an issue. If you'll recall, Comcast is a *tele*communications company. It would be nice if they could all be together, but I wouldn't think it'd be necessary.
I hope they are not able to assemble enough property to build 2 more towers, and instead build just one megatall (2000'+) building, if they don't go for my SY idea.

Regardless, I know for a fact that Comcast wants to build a "Campus." They're calling it a campus, it's being referred to as a campus. There's going to be campus signage. They want buildings in proximity, they want cohesion. This has all already been decided and determined.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

That's ridiculous.

It would make everything else in the sky line look tiny.

Scale is important. I'm all about super talls but let's get another 5-10 600'-700' ers before we start demanding 2,000 ft tall skyscrapers.

There's plenty of blank space in the skyline that needs to be filled without being vacuumed up by one immense building.

We don't design skylines, we design buildings. skylines happen organically.
this particular megatall building would be occupied by one company, it wouldn't be a speculative building, meaning that there could still be 5-10 600-700 foot tallers as you suggest if there is a need for them outside of comcast. but you can't tell comcast they have have to have smaller builidings because you don't like the look or scale of one large building on the skyline.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Regardless, I know for a fact that Comcast wants to build a "Campus." They're calling it a campus, it's being referred to as a campus. There's going to be campus signage. They want buildings in proximity, they want cohesion. This has all already been decided and determined.

if they wanted cohesion, they would have designed a cohesive campus, not gone about it as slapdash as they have. just because they're calling what they have a campus doesn't make it one.
and proximity is different from cohesion.

[iheartphilly]

And, they could of went all the way up on CTC but instead there's a hotel and 3 private penthouses. I have a feeling the next 1 or 2 will be 600 ft or under. And that might be a 3-5 year start to completion time-frame.