Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

dedicated lanes wouldn't help much because traffic lights is the main deterrent to speed. Neither BRT or the streetcar will be able to travel above 50kph. Even if they did, it'll only be for a few seconds before they have to slow down due to red light or a stop. From 72nd to 102nd, there are 13 lights on KGB for this 6km stretch of road. That's an average of 1 traffic light for every 461m.

What if we take into account signal treatment?

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

What if we take into account signal treatment?

At most, they'll only have priority to go first at each light cycle, but they'll still have to stop when the light is red. The 98 b-line had this when it ran on dedicated lanes in Richmond, but it wasn't any faster due to the close proximity of the traffic lights. This is the limitation of running things at-grade. You are really no different than general traffic as you are still bound by traffic lights.

[giallo]

A Vancouver Sun video about the project.

• Video Link

[Metro-One]

So a nothing piece?

I was hoping it would be a reporter actually grilling them on the terrible stats regarding capacity and speed.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So a nothing piece?

I was hoping it would be a reporter actually grilling them on the terrible stats regarding capacity and speed.

You would think, but Surrey and Co. will brand them as “anti-LRT shills.” I won’t be surprised that the SNG LRT is sponsored by these people.

I’m still feeling irked that the Langley Line will be built as LRT instead of extending SkyTrain. Transit in Langley is inadequate at best and most routes there have terrible coverage, no direct A-to-Bs (just look at the C64), and hourly frequencies. Only the 502 and 555 (during rush hour) are passable, but they’re not good enough. Do LRT proponents seriously want to stab Langley at the back by saying that not many people transit there, so they don’t deserve SkyTrain?

[Migrant_Coconut]

More details here.

50 kph straight down the road, no safety fence or crossing gates, and a total capacity of 6,000 pphpd. This is not going to end well.

Originally Posted by Firebrand

I’m still feeling irked that the Langley Line will be built as LRT instead of extending SkyTrain.

Calm your 🞵🞵🞵🞵, man. Langley's RT has not been confirmed in any way, shape or form except by Hepner and all her cheerleaders; for the umpteenth time, there's a lot of things that can happen in eight years.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Calm your 🞵🞵🞵🞵, man. Langley's RT has not been confirmed in any way, shape or form except by Hepner and all her cheerleaders; for the umpteenth time, there's a lot of things that can happen in eight years.

I’ve been really salty about this ever since Surrey and TransLink “declared” plans for the Langley LRT (by the Surrey-funded media, of course). Surrey’s the big guy and (both) Langleys get overshadowed. For now, most of the issue is on the SNG LRT.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

For now, most of the issue is on the SNG LRT.

Right, and once the Newton-Guildford branch is up and running, then it's no longer just a dozen protesters and a very angry internet, it's a physical thing with clearly demonstrable flaws which mess up the whole SoF region. That creates upset voters, upset blocs, upset politicians, and actual, substantive pressure to cancel the Langley branch.

Of course, the downside is that NIMBYs along the Arbutus corridor can also point to Newton-Guildford and say "bad idea." Never mind how the Greenway will work for all of the reasons why Surrey won't...

[flipper316]

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-lrt-project-update-may-2018

From the article.

TransLink plans to work with emergency responders to create protocols that ensure the process to clear train collisions with pedestrians, cyclists, and vehicles is designed to be as quick as possible, so that train operations can resume shortly after an incident.

Let the bloodbath begin. Grab the popcorn once this thing is open.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by flipper316

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-lrt-project-update-may-2018

From the article.

TransLink plans to work with emergency responders to create protocols that ensure the process to clear train collisions with pedestrians, cyclists, and vehicles is designed to be as quick as possible, so that train operations can resume shortly after an incident.

Let the bloodbath begin. Grab the popcorn once this thing is open.

Just imagine a political protest happening and protestors standing on the tracks and shutting the entire thing down.

[Firebrand]

I found something on r/vancouver

That’s a simulation of cars and trucks piling on that intersection, with the LRT plowing through them at the end.

[DKaz]

Let them build LRT from Guildford to Newton. In my opinion, it doesn't matter the technology because that corridor is more local in nature -- it's not going to carry through regional commuters. And it gives Translink a chance to see if light rail works in the region. I can think of a few other potential light rail corridors -- 200 St. in Langley, the old Kent Ave train tracks from Vancouver to New West, etc.

The rapid transit expansion to Langley on the other hand absolutely has to be Skytrain.

[LeftCoaster]

If they're going to find out LRT doesn't work I'd rather they use Surrey as the guinea pig than Vancouver.

I'd also they not use my tax dollars too though.

[SgtNeonPanda]

The one good thing about LRT on this route is that it's expandable to White Rock/South Surrey. That would never happen if Skytrain was used on the route, unless they build a separate LRT system to serve White Rock.

I'd really like to see the LRT expanded in future down 72nd to Scott Rd to serve Kwantlen and the new towers popping up in North Delta.

Could overpasses be added in future over major intersections like Calgary has?

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The rapid transit expansion to Langley on the other hand absolutely has to be Skytrain.

That much is obvious, but Surrey politicians are too thick to understand this. They have this mindset that people in Langley will not “appreciate the lifestyle and shops Surrey has to offer.”

[WarrenC12]

Is there a ridership/business case where this LRT is at least as cost effective as a high capacity bus system? At least it will be quiet and clean. I look forward to the dashcam-crash videos as well.

[nname]

Originally Posted by SgtNeonPanda

The one good thing about LRT on this route is that it's expandable to White Rock/South Surrey. That would never happen if Skytrain was used on the route, unless they build a separate LRT system to serve White Rock.

That's what people against SkyTrain said, which I disagree to. People claim SkyTrain is too expensive because they have to elevate through the farm land. But go Port Moody to check out how at-grade SkyTrain works. The only thing extra is to close or elevate the roadways that crosses the track, and then the cost of SkyTrain or LRT is pretty much the same.

However, when the SNG line cost 1.65 billion, are you seriously think there's any chance of an extension to South Surrey/White Rock, whether it's LRT or SkyTrain?

And go check out the design of the LRT line at Newton... which pretty much make any southward extension impossible.

[SgtNeonPanda]

Originally Posted by nname

That's what people against SkyTrain said, which I disagree to. People claim SkyTrain is too expensive because they have to elevate through the farm land. But go Port Moody to check out how at-grade SkyTrain works. The only thing extra is to close or elevate the roadways that crosses the track, and then the cost of SkyTrain or LRT is pretty much the same.

However, when the SNG line cost 1.65 billion, are you seriously think there's any chance of an extension to South Surrey/White Rock, whether it's LRT or SkyTrain?

And go check out the design of the LRT line at Newton... which pretty much make any southward extension impossible.

The only reason costs between LRT and Skytrain on the Evergreen line were so similar was due to the tunnel no? Otherwise, I think LRT wins cost wise, especially since it's unlikely to need very high capacity in the future that far south. At least the end of the Evergreen extension still has a significant population past its terminus.

The Expo Line at King George isn't configured very well to run to Langley either. Lougheed station wasn't well suited for the end design of the Evergreen extension either. In the scheme of things, the costs of adjusting the terminus stations would be a small percentage of the cost of an extension. Plus, it might be useful for short-turning.

Also, White Rock/South Surrey is kinda equivalent to the Westside of Vancouver -- would residents ever allow an elevated line through their community?


I'd love for this thing to be Skytrain as well, but I'm trying to stay optimistic since we can't go back in time now, unfortunately.

[officedweller]

Yeah, I thought it was strange that the terminus at Newton takes a sharp left onto 71st.

[nname]

Originally Posted by SgtNeonPanda

The Expo Line at King George isn't configured very well to run to Langley either. Lougheed station wasn't well suited for the end design of the Evergreen extension either. In the scheme of things, the costs of adjusting the terminus stations would be a small percentage of the cost of an extension. Plus, it might be useful for short-turning.

Expo Line ends at King George with a tail track pointing southwest, toward the direction of Langley. The tail track lined up exactly at the center of Fraser Highway.

Millennium Line at Lougheed had a pre-build, unfinished third platform, with pre-build switch and banked track stub. Even the pillar leaves space for the future curve toward north road.

Evergreen Extension at Coquitlam have track stub and switches pre-built for potentional PoCo extension, and points toward the right direction, at an empty space between the warehouses and CPR track.

Evergreen Extension at Lafarge points north toward Westwood Plateau, with tail track pointing at park land beside the street, and high enough to cross over the entrance just beyond the station.

Even for Richmond-Brighouse... it's pointing south toward the possible extension direction.

Surrey LRT at Newton, however, there is no tail track, nor there's enough space for them. The station is East-West whereas the future extension should run south. The track also points directly toward Newton Area. So if they indeed decide to extend the line, are they going to shutdown Newton station for years during construction, or demolish Newton Area so they can make the track turn back to the main street?

It's just telling me that "future extension" is not even part of this plan. Basically, for the few advantage that LRT had over SkyTrain on this route, they are likely not taking advantage of any of them.