Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0 - Page 362

1overcosc · #**7221** Posted **May 23, 2018, 6:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

$15 million annually? After taking into account new infrastructure costs for the LRT?

That's pretty impressive! Any chance you remember where you read that.

Yep. $15 million in annual net savings. It came up a couple times in city budget meetings and articles.

McC · #**7222** Posted **May 23, 2018, 11:06 PM**

I’ve heard John Manconi say $17M in annual operating savings.

HighwayStar · #**7223** Posted **May 23, 2018, 11:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McC

I’ve heard John Manconi say $17M in annual operating savings.

WooHoo!! Property taxes will finally go down for a change. Looking forward to the savings!!

1overcosc · #**7224** Posted **May 24, 2018, 12:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

WooHoo!! Property taxes will finally go down for a change. Looking forward to the savings!!

Hate to burst your hopes and dreams but that's not where the money is going. It's staying within the transit system. Most of it is being used to increase contributions to capital reserve funds for future LRT expansion with some being used to expand the bus network. It actually has to stay within the transit system because of a provincial law that requires municipal subsidies of public transit to always be equal to or higher than it was in 2003, adjusted for inflation (so basically rate of growth in municipal transit subsidies has to average at or above inflation from 2003 to present). Municipalities that fail to do this lose their provincial gas tax transfers. Moving that $17M out of the transit system would probably put us below that threshold, especially given that the city cut spending on transit in 2011 (that likely wiped out a good chunk of any above-inflationary increase from 2003 to 2011).

Tax rates are fine anyway. I have to do the math but I'm pretty sure that relative to inflation, property taxes per capita has actually fallen over the course of Watson's time as mayor. They probably fell during his last council term too.

kevinbottawa · #**7225** Posted **May 24, 2018, 4:08 AM**

The cladding is going up at Rideau Station/Scotiabank.

J.OT13 · #**7226** Posted **May 24, 2018, 4:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Edmonton soon will also have longer vehicles).

Over in Seattle, some of their bloggers were dreaming about running longer trains like we have:

https://seattletransitblog.com/2016/12/23/double-link-an-open-gangway-vehicle-concept/

Do you know how long the Valley Line trains will be?

A good point was brought up in the Seattle blog; the existing rail yards might not be able to accommodate longer trains. In Ottawa, our sheds are plenty long, but the heavy maintenance building might not accommodate anything over 59 meters.

zzptichka · #**7227** Posted **May 24, 2018, 1:22 PM**

Happy Confederation Line launch day everybody!

Oh wait.

PHrenetic · #**7228** Posted **May 24, 2018, 1:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Happy Confederation Line launch day everybody!

Oh wait.

Good Day....

too late.... missed it by 17.... May 7th !!

oh....yeah....right....wait for it........!!

lrt's friend · #**7229** Posted **May 24, 2018, 2:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Happy Confederation Line launch day everybody!

Oh wait.

Haha! I remember Marianne Wilkinson telling me personally shortly after the 2006 cancellation vote that the shovel would be in the ground within 12 months. On the anniversary, I sent her another e-mail asking when the shovel was going to be in the ground. No response.

Well, 12 years later, we still don't have it up and running. Yes, it has really been 12 years. No wonder I was so bewildered at the time. It has been half a generation of delay. And we still don't have a decent replacement plan for the original project, which has spiralled to unaffordability. How did that happen? It was opportunity permanently lost because the Canadian dollar had a much better exchange rate at that time. That alone has increased costs by 30%.

OCCheetos · #**7230** Posted **May 24, 2018, 2:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Happy Confederation Line launch day everybody!

Oh wait.

I get it... but today wouldn't have been the launch day anyway. It would have only been the handover date.

kmcamp · #**7231** Posted **May 24, 2018, 2:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Do you know how long the Valley Line trains will be?

A good point was brought up in the Seattle blog; the existing rail yards might not be able to accommodate longer trains. In Ottawa, our sheds are plenty long, but the heavy maintenance building might not accommodate anything over 59 meters.

They are 7 section Flexities. Given the Toronto ones are 5 section and 30m long, I'm guesstimating that would make it a 42m long vehicle

roger1818 · #**7232** Posted **May 24, 2018, 4:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcamp

The citadis doesn't come that long. It's better then most LRT systems though, Seattle, Minneapolis, and San Diego all run 3 vehicles and get a shorter overall length. If they add the extra module to ours making it 58m (116m coupled) that's the current max length of any low floor vehicle on the market.

EDIT: I picked those three cities because all 3 run similar length low floor trains (3x30m Siemens S70). Everyone else runs shorter trains, or is high floor like Calgary or Edmonton. Actually, we seem to be the only city in North America at the moment with LRVs longer than 30m (though longer units are much common in Europe and Edmonton soon will also have longer vehicles).

But Calgary couples 4 trains together (since late 2015). That is 6 unnecessary cabs in the middle of the train. Not sure if they ever run shorter trains.

lrt's friend · #**7233** Posted **May 24, 2018, 5:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

But Calgary couples 4 trains together (since late 2015). That is 6 unnecessary cabs in the middle of the train. Not sure if they ever run shorter trains.

I am sure Calgary will go to longer low floor LRVs for the Green Line. It is almost impossible to change what is used on existing lines. I suppose that double length high floor LRVs could be used on the existing lines if they are available.

kmcamp · #**7234** Posted **May 24, 2018, 5:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

But Calgary couples 4 trains together (since late 2015). That is 6 unnecessary cabs in the middle of the train. Not sure if they ever run shorter trains.

Edmonton runs 5 cars...But I figured somebody would complain about comparing low floor to high floor so I ignored both.

kevinbottawa · #**7235** Posted **May 24, 2018, 8:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Not sure where to post this

https://globalnews.ca/news/4224334/morga...?utm_source=GlobalBC&utm_medium=Facebook

And now a few days later, sexual harassment allegations against Morgan Freeman. I assume his voice won't make it onto buses and Skytrains after all.

http://ottawasun.com/entertainment/celeb...wcm/691e8dde-4e0d-4e65-b3d6-087cac8390a2

Truenorth00 · #**7236** Posted **May 24, 2018, 8:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Haha! I remember Marianne Wilkinson telling me personally shortly after the 2006 cancellation vote that the shovel would be in the ground within 12 months. On the anniversary, I sent her another e-mail asking when the shovel was going to be in the ground. No response.

Well, 12 years later, we still don't have it up and running. Yes, it has really been 12 years. No wonder I was so bewildered at the time. It has been half a generation of delay. And we still don't have a decent replacement plan for the original project, which has spiralled to unaffordability. How did that happen? It was opportunity permanently lost because the Canadian dollar had a much better exchange rate at that time. That alone has increased costs by 30%.

You are comparing shovels in the ground to launch dates.

Had they not cancelled that project, sure the LRT would be running. But it still would have taken 5 years to build at least. The real delay was about 6 years. And for that, we also get a substantially better LRT line than originally planned that takes a lot of buses off the road.

Not ideal. But not as terrible as you suggest either.

Truenorth00 · #**7237** Posted **May 24, 2018, 9:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Hate to burst your hopes and dreams but that's not where the money is going. It's staying within the transit system. Most of it is being used to increase contributions to capital reserve funds for future LRT expansion with some being used to expand the bus network. It actually has to stay within the transit system because of a provincial law that requires municipal subsidies of public transit to always be equal to or higher than it was in 2003, adjusted for inflation (so basically rate of growth in municipal transit subsidies has to average at or above inflation from 2003 to present). Municipalities that fail to do this lose their provincial gas tax transfers. Moving that $17M out of the transit system would probably put us below that threshold, especially given that the city cut spending on transit in 2011 (that likely wiped out a good chunk of any above-inflationary increase from 2003 to 2011).

Tax rates are fine anyway. I have to do the math but I'm pretty sure that relative to inflation, property taxes per capita has actually fallen over the course of Watson's time as mayor. They probably fell during his last council term too.

Never heard of this policy. But I like it. There's a lot of small capital projects and service improvements that Ottawa could undertake with that money. This gives OC Transpo the funds to do that.

1overcosc · #**7238** Posted **May 24, 2018, 9:05 PM**

^ Ottawa's paying for the Baseline BRT mostly with that money.

Truenorth00 · #**7239** Posted **May 24, 2018, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ Ottawa's paying for the Baseline BRT mostly with that money.

There are so many little things OC Transpo could fix. More (and better) bus shelters, improved wayfinding, bike sharing and storage racks at all RT stations, etc.

acottawa · #**7240** Posted **May 24, 2018, 9:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Hate to burst your hopes and dreams but that's not where the money is going. It's staying within the transit system. Most of it is being used to increase contributions to capital reserve funds for future LRT expansion with some being used to expand the bus network. It actually has to stay within the transit system because of a provincial law that requires municipal subsidies of public transit to always be equal to or higher than it was in 2003, adjusted for inflation (so basically rate of growth in municipal transit subsidies has to average at or above inflation from 2003 to present). Municipalities that fail to do this lose their provincial gas tax transfers. Moving that $17M out of the transit system would probably put us below that threshold, especially given that the city cut spending on transit in 2011 (that likely wiped out a good chunk of any above-inflationary increase from 2003 to 2011).

Are you saying that Ottawa has made the bare minimum increase every year since 2003?