The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Taeolas]

Part of me does agree that SJ should have a casino. But I agree that realistically, a casino is probably one of the last things SJ needs right now.

Maybe in another decade when its had time to grow more, maybe shift to more office-industry and less industrial industry; but right now is not really a good time for SJ.

If a casino were to be built, it would have to be in the core, near the cruise ship and Harbour Station and whatnot IMO. Moncton's location is certainly a mistake (not a horrible mistake since that was already a tourist area, but downtown would have been better).

For SJ, the city would be wise to shelve the idea for another decade and make sure it goes in the core when it does happen.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

If a casino were to be built, it would have to be in the core, near the cruise ship and Harbour Station and whatnot IMO. Moncton's location is certainly a mistake (not a horrible mistake since that was already a tourist area, but downtown would have been better).

Indeed. The casino at Magnetic Hill isn't a disaster. There are many hotels already in the precinct, as well as a golf course, zoo, water park, amusement park, concert facility, winery, nordic spa and the "illusion" itself. It does help create a "tourism zone" in the city.

Having said this, I remain firmly convinced that the DT is far more in need of this addition to the "critical mass" of development than the Magnetic Hill area is.

When the province decided to locate the casino at Magnetic Hill, they said the reason was because of "harm" that could be done to vulnerable DT residents. While this might be true, I suspect there were ulterior motives in play as well......

I agree with JHikka, there should be a well informed and reasoned debate over where the casino in SJ should be located. In SJ, the choice may be more clear cut since it is the downtown area which is the centre of the tourism industry in the city.

[Fischbob]

I agree with the sentiment that we need to be cautious about bringing a casino to SJ considering its vulnerable population - at a minimum we would need a strategy in place for the operator and province to address and mitigate gambling addiction.

As far as location goes, the Uptown waterfront certainly makes the most sense if we want to target the cruise ship and convention markets - this simply isn't possible with a suburban location. For a specific site, I would nominate the same place I suggested the Museum go: the Port property between the Marco Polo Cruise Terminal and the Coast Guard Site. This location can't be used for residential (Port charter), so a hospitality use works well and it doesn't tie up additional land on the Coast Guard site itself, where we could really use some residential density.

I do have another concern about a casino and it comes from an urban design standpoint. Casinos don't particularly have the best interaction with the public realm, as the gaming floor tends to be expansive, windowless and access-controlled. Careful consideration would need to be given to animating the ground floor with active uses in order to avoid creating/entrenching a dead zone on the waterfront.

I have similar design reservations about the proposed Museum, actually, since part of the facility is going to be dedicated to storing the collections - also requiring large, windowless areas in the building program. Without creative architectural design, we run the risk of not one, but two featureless boxes on our waterfront.

I'm hoping my design concerns turn out to be unfounded. Time will tell.

[thefishingnut]

If people want to gamble, there are lots of existing ways of doing it besides a casino - VLT's in the so-called vulnerable areas already exist, there is a track in the city with off-track betting, and if the spam mail folder on my e-mail account is to be believed, 100's of Internet based gambling sites, poker sites, sports betting sites all available to take peoples money.

If the press releases came true, the Moncton casino created 425 jobs. Imagine what happens to a so called vulnerable area when there is employment available they can walk to break out of the cycle?

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/casino-new-brunswick-jobs-moncton-nb/?country=ca

[Fischbob]

So the full draft Central Peninsula Neighbourhood Plan, Design Manual, and Heritage Bylaw Review have now been released for public review and comment. The following page has links to the documents and some additional information: https://courbanize.com/projects/central-peninsula-plan/updates/26543

I encourage folks to give these a read and send in your feedback to the project team.

[SJLad]

Anyone going to check out the new exhibit tonight at the Museum?

"The public is also invited to attend a Music of the Eye exhibit of architectural drawings of Saint John and its region from 1822 to 1914. The opening reception for the exhibit will be held May 29 from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. at the New Brunswick Museum."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-architect-conference-1.4677613

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

I encourage folks to give these a read and send in your feedback to the project team.

I'll likely send in feedback eventually. Some thoughts:

• Really think a lengthened boardwalk along the Coast Guard site could be really great.
  
• Page 33 gives a render for potential mid-block development next to the Trinity Church replacing surface parking. Looks like really sharp infill.
  
• Thought this was very interesting: "If, in the future, the Barrack Green Armoury could be acquired and rehabilitated, it would be ideal for use as an educational, community, or cultural hub. Partnering with a major institution such as the University of New Brunswick Saint John, New Brunswick Community College or other community groups would be essential to moving this type of project forward."
  
• The shifting of the Lantic site sounds like they want to make that the new concert/event venue if/when Long Wharf is developed. I read the paragraph on p.42 and instantly thought of moving Area 506 down there when I read it. The example they gave is having the Exhibition located there.
  
• A recreational facility on the former Lantic site is a great idea, IMO. There's a limited number of centrally located recreation facilities.
  
• Developing Crown Street as a mixed-use neighbourhood is a wise decision. I especially agree with the following: "New buildings along Crown Street with a stronger relationship to the street, in combination with a road diet and streetscape improvements, could transform the character of the street and improve pedestrian conditions." Road dieting on Crown could go a long way, similar to Union, to revitalizing that street, and could put more emphasis on local residents instead of serving as a drive-thru.
  
• Long Wharf is likely the most ambitious section of the entire plan. Building a new neighbourhood from scratch won't be easy.
  
• From p.86: "Improve street level access to the City Market to include outdoor patio space and pedestrianize South Market Street." Absolutely yes!
  
• From p.98: "As resources become available, a high priority project is to connect Harbour Passage around the Peninsula to Rockwood Park." Completely agree. More can be done to better connect Rockwood with the central core. Crown Street will play a vital role in this. Eventually connecting Harbour Passage to Marsh Creek is another ambitious plan.

[Wolkenkratzerliebhab]

A few shots of Leinster Street construction. I believe this is another new Irving parking garage?
Saint John Construction, Leinster Street. by I'm Me, Who are You?, on Flickr
Saint John Construction, Leinster Street. by I'm Me, Who are You?, on Flickr
Saint John Construction, Leinster Street. by I'm Me, Who are You?, on Flickr

[ColSJ]

The Port of Saint John released an image of what the container terminal will look like after its 205 million $ modernization. The image shows the addition of two new cranes, addition of the warf it’s self to make room for more containers, and the ships are much larger. Hapag-Loyd which is one of the shipping lines shown in the image currently doesn’t ship to Saint John but I think you can make the inference after the upgrade more shipping lines will be interested in Saint John. I think this project will be a real economic boom for the city


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Deh2a4AXcAAFK0b?format=jpg

[mark smith]

[QUOTE=ColSJ;8208104]The Port of Saint John released an image of what the container terminal will look like after its 205 million $ modernization. The image shows the addition of two new cranes, addition of the warf it’s self to make room for more containers, and the ships are much larger. Hapag-Loyd which is one of the shipping lines shown in the image currently doesn’t ship to Saint John but I think you can make the inference after the upgrade more shipping lines will be interested in Saint John. I think this project will be a real economic boom for the

A real economic boom? Your sure got high hopes,lol. Since the colonial inn is now going to be the Days Inn does anyone know if the restaurnat will be a dennys?

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

The Port of Saint John released an image of what the container terminal will look like after its 205 million $ modernization. The image shows the addition of two new cranes, addition of the warf it’s self to make room for more containers, and the ships are much larger. Hapag-Loyd which is one of the shipping lines shown in the image currently doesn’t ship to Saint John but I think you can make the inference after the upgrade more shipping lines will be interested in Saint John. I think this project will be a real economic boom for the city


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Deh2a4AXcAAFK0b?format=jpg

Completely agree. Saint John has better access to central Canada and the northeast US than Halifax. Contrary to the usual naysayers on here, DPWorld just doesn’t come into a Port because they’re nice. Big things are being planned. Transportation and access are the keys to economic success. With this and the airport upgrades just wait. I for one, am extremely optimistic about our future.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

Completely agree. Saint John has better access to central Canada and the northeast US than Halifax. Contrary to the usual naysayers on here, DPWorld just doesn’t come into a Port because they’re nice. Big things are being planned. Transportation and access are the keys to economic success. With this and the airport upgrades just wait. I for one, am extremely optimistic about our future.

Couldn’t of said it better! I think a lot of people don’t understand how incredibly massive a port can be for a region’s economy. Look at Halifax today, that city is built off of the success of their port. Same goes to Savannah, Georgia and Norfolk, Virginia. Massive port and the city is doing well. Also after looking at the photo again may I add it also includes a new inter model rail yard in the back.

[ColSJ]

I asked the mayor about a month ago if there has been any recents developments in the NB Museum project and he seemed to give me the impression things were happening behind the scenes. The other day Develop Saint John tweeted this out (see link below). I was sceptical that this project would happen but I’m starting to gain confidence. Also worth noting MP Long reportedly will be announcing something very big for the city next week. He said it will be one of the biggest of his term, exciting!

https://mobile.twitter.com/DevelopSJ/status/1001800235490963456

[CdnEh]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

The Port of Saint John released an image of what the container terminal will look like after its 205 million $ modernization. The image shows the addition of two new cranes, addition of the warf it’s self to make room for more containers, and the ships are much larger. Hapag-Loyd which is one of the shipping lines shown in the image currently doesn’t ship to Saint John but I think you can make the inference after the upgrade more shipping lines will be interested in Saint John. I think this project will be a real economic boom for the city


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Deh2a4AXcAAFK0b?format=jpg

The port currently has 4 cranes. Indications were given that when the new ones (blue ones) were operational that the old ones (red ones) would be removed, but that hasn't happened and it's been over a year. Maybe they decided to keep them?

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

The port currently has 4 cranes. Indications were given that when the new ones (blue ones) were operational that the old ones (red ones) would be removed, but that hasn't happened and it's been over a year. Maybe they decided to keep them?

To my understanding there will be an addition of two new cranes to be operational. The plan was to get rid of the red cranes which for the record were actually bought second hand when PSJ got them. I know the telegraph journal put out an article a while ago saying DP World didn’t know what to do with them despite as you said the original plan of removing them. The ships that will be coming to Saint John will be far too large for the size of the red cranes, and some of the ships that are coming these days are already too big for them so we will be seeing two new cranes and perhaps the red ones will stay but that’s beyond my knowledge.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

I asked the mayor about a month ago if there has been any recents developments in the NB Museum project and he seemed to give me the impression things were happening behind the scenes. The other day Develop Saint John tweeted this out (see link below). I was sceptical that this project would happen but I’m starting to gain confidence. Also worth noting MP Long reportedly will be announcing something very big for the city next week. He said it will be one of the biggest of his term, exciting!

https://mobile.twitter.com/DevelopSJ/status/1001800235490963456

I'm not even a fan of museums, but this would certainly be a great attraction for tourists/cruise ships! I honestly am PRO anything that allows additional access to the waterfront (to a certain extent obviously )

Can't wait to when they have some design plans and renderings avaliable.

[Ire Narissis]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Couldn’t of said it better! I think a lot of people don’t understand how incredibly massive a port can be for a region’s economy. Look at Halifax today, that city is built off of the success of their port. Same goes to Savannah, Georgia and Norfolk, Virginia. Massive port and the city is doing well. Also after looking at the photo again may I add it also includes a new inter model rail yard in the back.

I would love to see more trains going to and from the port. So would the Irvings, I'd wager.

[mark smith]

Originally Posted by Ire Narissis

I would love to see more trains going to and from the port. So would the Irvings, I'd wager.

Ya sure all sj needs is more industy and eyesores and more for irving to gain. I bet all the tea in china this will not cause a economic boom for the city.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by mark smith

Ya sure all sj needs is more industy and eyesores and more for irving to gain. I bet all the tea in china this will not cause a economic boom for the city.

Cynical much???

I have looked at your posting history and so far it is a litany of anger and bitterness. Not one single positive contribution to the forum yet.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by mark smith

Ya sure all sj needs is more industy and eyesores and more for irving to gain. I bet all the tea in china this will not cause a economic boom for the city.

“Eyesores” with all do respect you’re clearly uneducated on this topic. Look at the photo I provided and tell me what’s an eyesore