Amazon HQ2 thread

[10023]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

How would it limit the pool? They already have an HQ in the U.S. If they put the other HQ in Canada then it expands the pool...

So does putting it on the East Coast.

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

How would it limit the pool? They already have an HQ in the U.S. If they put the other HQ in Canada then it expands the pool...

Yeah opening yourself to 30 million in the entirety of Canada versus the 100 million+ on the east coast seems like no comparison? You'll not have nearly the workforce needed to support HQ2 in Canada, and will NEED massive visa help, which is laborious and inconvenient, won't allow Amazon to scale as fast as needed. Operating in the US in cities with the workforce readily available, ie Washington DC, NYC, Philly, Atlanta, etc. is much more logical, and opens you to massive workforce potential given the number of metro areas you can pull from outside the home metro. For example DC doesn't just open you to DC residents, but even NYC, Philly, Boston, NC residents who all require minimal movement and life changes to get there.

[mhays]

The whole point of Toronto (guessing) seems like REDUCING Visa problems. The US workers can go to Seattle or a smaller office. The rest of the world will have an easier time going to Toronto.

(The Seattle office employs thousands of immigrants and visa holders, but that's difficult to achieve, would be much higher if allowed, and has probably gotten harder lately.)

[JManc]

Toronto should convince Jack Ma to have Alibaba open a North American HQ there and then horn in on Bezos's turf.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Toronto should convince Jack Ma to have Alibaba open a North American HQ there and then horn in on Bezos's turf.

Better discuss that with Xi Jinping first. Jack Ma is not a free agent like Jeff Bezos is and the Chinese government is currently discouraging overseas investment.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Better discuss that with Xi Jinping first. Jack Ma is not a free agent like Jeff Bezos is and the Chinese government is currently discouraging overseas investment.

That depends on the sector. Investments that build up capabilities in technology or a services economy are still encouraged. At the opposite end of the spectrum, they have really clamped down on “trophy” investments - things like sports teams, hotels and other real estate.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by mhays

The whole point of Toronto (guessing) seems like REDUCING Visa problems. The US workers can go to Seattle or a smaller office. The rest of the world will have an easier time going to Toronto.

(The Seattle office employs thousands of immigrants and visa holders, but that's difficult to achieve, would be much higher if allowed, and has probably gotten harder lately.)

Wherever the new HQ goes it will get massive subsidies. It sure would seem absurd for American tax payers to pay for jobs to go to non-Americans. Quite frankly there should be a law that says companies which ask for government subsidies aren't allowed to hire foreign workers.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Yeah opening yourself to 30 million in the entirety of Canada versus the 100 million+ on the east coast seems like no comparison? You'll not have nearly the workforce needed to support HQ2 in Canada, and will NEED massive visa help, which is laborious and inconvenient, won't allow Amazon to scale as fast as needed. Operating in the US in cities with the workforce readily available, ie Washington DC, NYC, Philly, Atlanta, etc. is much more logical, and opens you to massive workforce potential given the number of metro areas you can pull from outside the home metro. For example DC doesn't just open you to DC residents, but even NYC, Philly, Boston, NC residents who all require minimal movement and life changes to get there.

There are only two labor markets in the entire eastern half of the U.S. that are materially larger than Toronto. If local labor market is all that they're concerned about then Toronto would be a top contender for that reason alone. If you're making the point that being on the east coast gives them access to some talent pool that they don't get on the west coast... not really. But the huge point that you're missing is that choosing Toronto doesn't just open them up to 30 million Canadians, it opens them up to hiring just about any skilled person in the world without worrying about the fickleness of the U.S. visa system.

Things to consider for why Toronto makes sense:

1. Amazon relies heavily on foreign-born workers. Amazon sponsored the most new H1bs of any single employer in 2018. The number was about 4,700 visas.
2. I can't find a reliable source for the percentage for 2018 approved H1bs, but I have heard that only 27% of applications filed were granted visas in the H1b lottery.
3. Yes, there is an actual lottery for visas. For a non-citizen/permanent resident student who is offered a job in the U.S., the employer will have to sponsor an application for the H1b visa lottery.
4. The lottery takes place once per year, and applications are typically only accepted on one day per year (beginning of April). Workers have usually been employed for months (potentially up to two years) before they find out whether they have secured a visa. STEM degree holders are able to apply twice because they are given a two year window on the work authorization through their student visa.
5. The H1b visa process is the same whether you're in Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, or Seattle. It is not the same process in Toronto, which is obviously in another country with an entirely different immigration system.
6. Workers who do not successfully obtain a visa in the U.S. H1b lottery can attempt to apply for a visa in Canada -- from what I've heard it's a much easier process -- and potentially continue working for the same employer if there is a presence in Canada, such as Amazon HQ2.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There are only two labor markets in the entire eastern half of the U.S. that are materially larger than Toronto. If local labor market is all that they're concerned about then Toronto would be a top contender for that reason alone. If you're making the point that being on the east coast gives them access to some talent pool that they don't get on the west coast... not really. But the huge point that you're missing is that choosing Toronto doesn't just open them up to 30 million Canadians, it opens them up to hiring just about any skilled person in the world without worrying about the fickleness of the U.S. visa system.

Things to consider for why Toronto makes sense:

1. Amazon relies heavily on foreign-born workers. Amazon sponsored the most new H1bs of any single employer in 2018. The number was about 4,700 visas.
2. I can't find a reliable source for the percentage for 2018 approved H1bs, but I have heard that only 27% of applications filed were granted visas in the H1b lottery.
3. Yes, there is an actual lottery for visas. For a non-citizen/permanent resident student who is offered a job in the U.S., the employer will have to sponsor an application for the H1b visa lottery.
4. The lottery takes place once per year, and applications are typically only accepted on one day per year (beginning of April). Workers have usually been employed for months (potentially up to two years) before they find out whether they have secured a visa. STEM degree holders are able to apply twice because they are given a two year window on the work authorization through their student visa.
5. The H1b visa process is the same whether you're in Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, or Seattle. It is not the same process in Toronto, which is obviously in another country with an entirely different immigration system.
6. Workers who do not successfully obtain a visa in the U.S. H1b lottery can attempt to apply for a visa in Canada -- from what I've heard it's a much easier process -- and potentially continue working for the same employer if there is a presence in Canada, such as Amazon HQ2.

Ed is on point.

Toronto may or may not get Amazon.

There are political and other reasons in contradictory directions.

But if one is going to assume a labour-force based decision, then Toronto is at the very least a top contender.

Its tech-work force is among the largest in North America and the fastest growing.

Canada's Visa program for high-skill workers aims to process applications in 2 weeks, year round.

Canada offers most successful applicants a path to citizenship, but does not require it.

Also, Ontario (the province in which Toronto is located) offered something different than the typical tax incentive.

If offered a guarantee of educating enough workers through the post-secondary system to meet demand.

(discipline specific)

https://s3.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com/torontoglobal/TorontoRegionResponsetoAmazonHQ2RFP_PD.pdf

[mhays]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

Wherever the new HQ goes it will get massive subsidies. It sure would seem absurd for American tax payers to pay for jobs to go to non-Americans. Quite frankly there should be a law that says companies which ask for government subsidies aren't allowed to hire foreign workers.

That would be some people's popular idea, but it would be shortsighted. Drawing the world's best and brightest, means the US can stay ahead in tech, and the city will do well in tech.

That said, my city doesn't do subsidies for Amazon...we charge sales tax on construction, massive development fees, and now a head tax.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by mhays

The whole point of Toronto (guessing) seems like REDUCING Visa problems. The US workers can go to Seattle or a smaller office. The rest of the world will have an easier time going to Toronto.

(The Seattle office employs thousands of immigrants and visa holders, but that's difficult to achieve, would be much higher if allowed, and has probably gotten harder lately.)

There could also be a large tax advantage depending on how HQ2 is set up and if Its focus is overseas.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by mhays

That would be some people's popular idea, but it would be shortsighted. Drawing the world's best and brightest, means the US can stay ahead in tech, and the city will do well in tech.

That said, my city doesn't do subsidies for Amazon...we charge sales tax on construction, massive development fees, and now a head tax.

Not sure how much you've looked into the H1-B process, but calling it the, "best and brightest" is a little bit of a joke. That was the idea, but the majority of them go to much less glamorous jobs. Also there's a pretty simple issue of supply and demand here. Increasing the supply of these workers through the H1-B visa lowers wages. Again, I know the theory says it doesn't, but in practice a lot of companies use these visas to drive down wages. I essentially had to get out of t electrical engineering field because my company was hiring foreigners for $65,000 to replace native born people making $100,000. I know a lot of other people at my current job who were in a similar situation and left engineering to get into management as a result. If these visas didn't exist then wages for these sort of jobs would increase and university students would be more likely to peruse these fields. It just quite frankly isn't a good financial decision at this point in time to get into the STEM field when there are other higher paying positions that a smart person can get in the finance and business world.

[the urban politician]

I have a very solid source that says Chicago is in the top 20

[jd3189]

^^^ You don't say....

[emathias]

Originally Posted by jd3189

^^^ You don't say....

He did say ...

I find it hard to believe Toronto will be chosen, but from a market standpoint doesn't Canada being part of the Commonwealth provide labor access to all of that population? That could be huge, given that nearly 1/3 of the world is in the Commonwealth. There's over a billion even without India.

[drummer]

Originally Posted by JManc

Toronto should convince Jack Ma to have Alibaba open a North American HQ there and then horn in on Bezos's turf.

While I appreciate the idea for competition, I can say with much experience that Amazon is a significantly better model than Taobao (I've lived in China for the better part of a decade). There is almost no protection for customers except in writing. Sellers can brake every law that there is and get little more than a slap on the wrist. Part of this is the way laws are enforced here, but a big part of it is Taobao turning a blind eye to bad practices and collecting money. Every time I return to the States for a while and use Amazon, it's a breath of fresh air (and I'm not just saying that because I got out of the Chinese mega-city for a bit... ).

[Shawn]

I would advise against getting anywhere near the Alibaba-Ten Cent-Baidu ecosystem if you can help it . . . you think Facebook and Google are bad actors with your personal data? These guys are saints compared to what goes on in the black box otherwise known as Mainland Digital. And never forget - every bit of PII these companies collect on you is necessarily shared with Big Brother (on top of all the third party advertisers and data aggregators).

[Kenmore]

surprised this wasn't posted, Rahm is such a got damn embarrassment

The Amazon executive Jay Carney emailed Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago on the day Amazon announced its shortlist of 20 candidates for the site of its second headquarters.
"As I think I mentioned before, everyone here was impressed with the proposal your team put together," Carney said.
Emanuel ended the exchange with an apparent joke: "Whose (sic) your daddy? Talk soon. Hope family is good."

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-em...ahm-emanuel-headquarters-revealed-2018-5

[north 42]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Yeah opening yourself to 30 million in the entirety of Canada versus the 100 million+ on the east coast seems like no comparison? You'll not have nearly the workforce needed to support HQ2 in Canada, and will NEED massive visa help, which is laborious and inconvenient, won't allow Amazon to scale as fast as needed. Operating in the US in cities with the workforce readily available, ie Washington DC, NYC, Philly, Atlanta, etc. is much more logical, and opens you to massive workforce potential given the number of metro areas you can pull from outside the home metro. For example DC doesn't just open you to DC residents, but even NYC, Philly, Boston, NC residents who all require minimal movement and life changes to get there.

Canada’s population is actually closer to 37m now

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/canada-population/

[Sun Belt]

Did you guys hear the story about Amazon's Echo-Alexa secretly recording a private conversation in the home of a Portland family and then sent the conversation a random person in their contact list that lives about 175 miles away.

Amazon has determined that this is a rare incident.