Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

Interesting tidbit I got from a Stage 2 public consultation I listened to on Youtube, around 1:55:00;

Travel time from Trim to Downtown - 25 minutes
Travel time Moodie to Trim - 50 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-GeH6FBC8

[movebyleap]

Still not good enough to make me want to take the LRT. I currently drive from Cumberland Village to Moodie exit in 30 minutes.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by movebyleap

Still not good enough to make me want to take the LRT. I currently drive from Cumberland Village to Moodie exit in 30 minutes.

During rush hour?

[Hybrid247]

Good to know. If I'm understanding him correctly, Chris said that Trim to Moodie will be closer to 45 minutes if he had to guess (at around 1:57:00 in the video).

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by movebyleap

Still not good enough to make me want to take the LRT. I currently drive from Cumberland Village to Moodie exit in 30 minutes.

That makes sense if you're leaving around 6-6:30 AM, but anytime after 7 has to take at least 40 minutes, no?

[Truenorth00]

Transit is not usually faster than a car. But these are actually pretty decent travel times for the distances involved. Especially when you consider driving times at peak. And those driving times will only get worse as the city's population grows.

Also, you're doing this for $3. Is the time saved worth the cost in gas and wear and tear and parking?

Should be noted too, employer funded/provided parking tends to become more scarce as population increases too.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Interesting tidbit I got from a Stage 2 public consultation I listened to on Youtube, around 1:55:00;

Travel time from Trim to Downtown - 25 minutes
Travel time Moodie to Trim - 50 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-GeH6FBC8

I just listened to that clip and it was from “Orleans to Downtown” that was 25 minutes. Not sure if that quite makes sense as that would make it less than 25 minutes from Moodie to Downtown. I guess it also depends how they define downtown. If it’s Lyon station (the one projected to be busiest) maybe it makes sense.

Link to section of video with information

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I just listened to that clip and it was from “Orleans to Downtown” that was 25 minutes. Not sure if that quite makes sense as that would make it less than 25 minutes from Moodie to Downtown. I guess it also depends how they define downtown. If it’s Lyon station (the on projected to be busiest) maybe it makes sense.

Kanata is actually a lot farther from downtown than Orleans is, because the inner edge of the Greenbelt is a lot further away to the west than it is to the east. Quite a bit so, actually. It makes sense that "Downtown" would be the halfway point in travel time between Moodie and Trim.

Here's two stats that really put it into perspective:

As the crow flies, from Parliament Hill it's only 15km to Place D'Orleans, but it's 21km to Kanata Centrum.

If you draw a straight line from Kanata Centrum to Place d'Orleans, the halfway point of the line is at Westgate.

(Tangent: this gets even more dramatic when you look at the distances to valley towns. Rockland is only 35km from Parliament Hill, but Arnprior is 50km away. Maxville is closer to Parliament Hill than Perth is. Even Hawkesbury is only a little bit further away from Parliament than Perth is. And from the St. Laurent Mall.. Embrun and Stittsville are about the same distance away. It really makes you realize how badly Ottawans mental geography is warped into thinking that the western parts of the region are closer in than they actually are).

[eltodesukane]

Greenbelt Map

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I just listened to that clip and it was from “Orleans to Downtown” that was 25 minutes. Not sure if that quite makes sense as that would make it less than 25 minutes from Moodie to Downtown. I guess it also depends how they define downtown. If it’s Lyon station (the on projected to be busiest) maybe it makes sense.

It makes sense when you look at the Stage 1 map. Depending on what they define as "downtown", they are roughly as many stations east and west but the east line is longer than the west line however, trains will be able to travel faster on the east line due to longer distances at certain places. Dwell times in the west might be a bit longer as the average number of boarding per station might be higher.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day. Belfast Rd. LMSF update.

The rails are going into the main shed west extension; one track on the south side, and two tracks on the north side are installed but must be shaken in. I expect the remaining to be going in soon; the ballast is in place.

The new LMF building in the northeast corner seems to have virtually all of its steelwork framing in place.

Preparatory work seems to be ongoing for electrical, plumbing, and other infrastructure, before glazing and enclosing the main shed overhead walkway and southern end staircase shafts. I cannot see the northern end; I expect that will wait for progress on the new LMF building.

The temporary fabric-roofed one-track storage shed on the southeast corner seems to be getting its final installations of infrastructure; scissorlifts are working inside, and rail work seems in progress. I cannot see if the trackwork and switch connecting to the existing loop is in place yet.

The second track between the admin/MF building and the main storage shed seems in place and operational.

EnJoy.

[greenday38]

Does anyone know or want to speculate which platforms trains will use at Tunneys and Blair? When a busload of customers enters the station how will they know which platform to go to for the next train? Will only one platform be open (until phase 2 is finished)? In Montreal there are crossovers on the tail tracks beyond the end stations so all passengers get off at one platform and get on at the other - no such possibility here. On Vancouver's Canada Line south end there is only one track between the final two stations so no decisions to be made.

Just wondering.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by greenday38

Does anyone know or want to speculate which platforms trains will use at Tunneys and Blair? When a busload of customers enters the station how will they know which platform to go to for the next train? Will only one platform be open (until phase 2 is finished)? In Montreal there are crossovers on the tail tracks beyond the end stations so all passengers get off at one platform and get on at the other - no such possibility here. On Vancouver's Canada Line south end there is only one track between the final two stations so no decisions to be made.

Just wondering.

Good Day.

I would have to do my backfiles research, but IIRC, They said there would be directional pointers of some sort or style, along with the Next-Train displays, to indicate which platform should be approached to catch the next outgoing train. What timing they will use (for those so inclined to try running the stairs to catch the train already at the platform) has not been indicated. Apart from that general motherhood feel-good-about-it statement, there has been no hard information.

Your description of the Montreal Metro system is accurate, apart from the special conditions of the peculiar situation of Orange Line 2 Henri-Bourassa station.
FYI in the very early days, they tried open choice for boarding platform, but decided it was not a good idea to have customers ride the train through the tail-track switching operation. I managed to do it once, and it was fun. Plus, the problem of passengers picking the 'wrong' platform just after the train pulled away into the tail-track having to backtrack and cross over.

Here they opted for crossovers prior to the station, east of Tunney's and west of Blair.
Tunney's could have had tail-track operations, but they decided that the bus T-Way operations required the space.
Best practice would/should dictate that one train not leave the platform until the next has already arrived on the other side,
but again, we have no hard info.

Good Luck in the platform Bingo !

[J.OT13]

In the east, Blair station will have a centre platform, so we won't have any issues. Same with Trim and Baseline after stage 2.

Unfortunately, Moodie will have side platforms, but that is probably a result of limited space.

I'm curious to see how Bayview will be designed considering all of the vertical circulation has been built to connect Confederation with the Trillium's platform the the west. I feel like building Bayview with the idea of a future centre platform would have been simpler.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In the east, Blair station will have a centre platform, so we won't have any issues. Same with Trim and Baseline after stage 2.

Unfortunately, Moodie will have side platforms, but that is probably a result of limited space.

I'm curious to see how Bayview will be designed considering all of the vertical circulation has been built to connect Confederation with the Trillium's platform the the west. I feel like building Bayview with the idea of a future centre platform would have been simpler.

Good Day.
Thx, J.OT13 , silly me forgot that Blair has been center for some time now.

Bayview !! yeah - a rolling ongoing disaster. Egh!

EnJoy!

[greenday38]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.
Thx, J.OT13 , silly me forgot that Blair has been center for some time now.

Bayview !! yeah - a rolling ongoing disaster. Egh!

EnJoy!

Thanks for the info - I live out west and will be using Tunneys so I forgot that Blair is an island.

Regarding Bayview, how will one access the westbound platform from the street? There seems to be one entrance at the west end of the eastbound platform. Is there an entrance out back (north side) to the westbound platform or will those folks need to walk most of the length of the westbound platform, go downstairs and then go back upstairs to access westbound trains? I am not a fan of using active platforms as through routes to other places.

I like how they seem to be relocating the Trillium platform to the west side of the track - you are right there with the escalators to the Confed track of your choice. As long as there is only a single Trillium track it seems quite efficient.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

During rush hour?

Jamais de la vie!

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by greenday38

Is there an entrance out back (north side) to the westbound platform

Yes.

I like how they seem to be relocating the Trillium platform to the west side of the track - you are right there with the escalators to the Confed track of your choice. As long as there is only a single Trillium track it seems quite efficient.

Stage 2 will add another track and a new platform on the eastern side. Both sides of Bayview will have stairs and escalators (and elevators I'm guessing).

Edit: You can kind of see the (incomplete) staircase for the other entrance in the top left of this photo. I think it's an entrance?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Kanata is actually a lot farther from downtown than Orleans is, because the inner edge of the Greenbelt is a lot further away to the west than it is to the east. Quite a bit so, actually. It makes sense that "Downtown" would be the halfway point in travel time between Moodie and Trim.

That was my point. It is surprising that Place d'Orleans to downtown will take as much as 50% of the travel time from Trim to Moodie. I did some measurements though and Trim to Moodie will be about 37 km with 24 intervening stations and Place d'Orleans to Lyon will be 18.6 km (about half the distance) with 12 intervening stations, so it actually works out, if you assume that Lyon is considered to be "the downtown station."

From that we can assume that Moodie to Lyon will less than 25 minutes (my guess will be around 22 minutes) since it, combined with Trim to Place d'Orleans, will be 25 minutes (which I would assume to be about 3 minutes).

For reference, buses currently take to travel from Moodie to Slater / Bay:

• 24 minutes (Rapid route) during quiet times (no traffic),
• 28 minutes (Rapid route) during AM rush hour,
• 25 minutes (Connexion route) during AM rush hour,

So despite the increase in number of stops, it should still be slightly faster at all times of day (though the extra transfer will slow things down a bit, but that transfer will happen for most, regardless of where the line terminates (stage 1, 2 or 3)). More importantly, it will be more reliable as it won't get stuck in traffic, either on the Queensway or downtown.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That was my point. It is surprising that Place d'Orleans to downtown will take as much as 50% of the travel time from Trim to Moodie. I did some measurements though and Trim to Moodie will be about 37 km with 24 intervening stations and Place d'Orleans to Lyon will be 18.6 km (about half the distance) with 12 intervening stations, so it actually works out, if you assume that Lyon is considered to be "the downtown station."

From that we can assume that Moodie to Lyon will less than 25 minutes (my guess will be around 22 minutes) since it, combined with Trim to Place d'Orleans, will be 25 minutes (which I would assume to be about 3 minutes).

For reference, buses currently take to travel from Moodie to Slater / Bay:

• 24 minutes (Rapid route) during quiet times (no traffic),
• 28 minutes (Rapid route) during AM rush hour,
• 25 minutes (Connexion route) during AM rush hour,

So despite the increase in number of stops, it should still be slightly faster at all times of day (though the extra transfer will slow things down a bit, but that transfer will happen for most, regardless of where the line terminates (stage 1, 2 or 3)). More importantly, it will be more reliable as it won't get stuck in traffic, either on the Queensway or downtown.

Really shows what an improvement Stage 2 will on two fronts:

• Reliability. 25 mins. Not much worry about weather, traffic, etc.
• Efficiency. Think of the massive improvement in system efficiency when they reduce that much deadheading from Kanata, Stittsvilled and Barrhaven.
• Frequency. For those who live near the line itself. This is huge. Walk there any time of day and have fairly frequent service that will only get better with time.

Also challenges the case for something like suburban or commuter rail. That LRT is so fast, that there's very little room to save travel time when you're adding an extra transfer at Bayview or Tremblay.