Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[haljackey]

I hate to say it but...

I think I am becoming less and less optimistic about the project. I was a supporter of the LRT and hybrid plans with the tunnel under Richmond but cheapening out to full BRT without the tunnel has made the project less impressive. It will still cost a lot of $ and won't do much to improve transit times and will impact car travel. Lots of construction time pain too.

Also, Western University are bring pricks and are setting some unrealistic expectations to the city to get BRT through the university. If nothing else kills the project, their demands might be the final nail on the coffin unless they budge.

Investing transportation dollars into choke points, road gaps and new bridges would do a lot more to decrease travel times in the city.

[ssiguy]

I don`t understand why the City even gives a damn about what Western thinks. Western Road is a city built and maintained street so they can do whatever the hell they like with it.

[MolsonExport]

I think Western is embarrassed to be in London. The admin brass is so goddamned smug and talks a good talk (all talk, no action). Ivey likes to pretend it is a Toronto biz school.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I don`t understand why the City even gives a damn about what Western thinks. Western Road is a city built and maintained street so they can do whatever the hell they like with it.

Except the city wants BRT to go from Richmond, through campus and out onto Western Rd by Alumni Hall, which does require an agreement with Western.

[K85]

honest q, does Western own the roads going through it? If it doesn't, they should pound sand. If they do, then the road maintenance, clearing, etc is theirs to worry about too?

[Djeffery]

Yes Western owns the campus roads.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Western does own the on campus roads. If their top brass are going to be cocksuckers about it I'd move the buses to Huron St and create a link to Sarnia Rd. It had been considered during the early stages but was passed with no reason given. The city owns the ROW, even on Phillip Aziz Dr portion, as well they could finally create a road link too. The Western bridge would have to be redone anyways, might as well build your own and not be subject to Western's ridiculous demands.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I think so too, and I hope this is correct.

the LFP has fallen mightily from once-serious purveyor of news to one step above tabloid trash (and some sections on the weekends are basically just that, especially the billion letters published from pro-God, anti-youth/immigrants/taxes curmudgeonly seniors)

I wouldn't even dignify it by calling it 'one step above tabloid trash'. It has become bird-cage liner of rather poor quality. I still read the LFP, but I read it for free as a colleague brings his copy in to work every day. And I only read it to get a thumbnail sketch of what's going on in town, not to read serious and important news.

The LFP are by no means the only newspaper with this problem. The internet basically destroyed traditional media as we knew it.

[Spoofy]

.

[MrSlippery519]

I am at the same spot @haljacky add in the fact the new Mayor candidates seems mostly opposed to rapid transit (Cheng for sure).

After all the money that has been spent on assessments and meetings, it would be a shame to see nothing comes of it, but at the same time the plan in its current form is almost a joke compared to what we should have had.

[warpus]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

I am at the same spot @haljacky add in the fact the new Mayor candidates seems mostly opposed to rapid transit (Cheng for sure).

After all the money that has been spent on assessments and meetings, it would be a shame to see nothing comes of it, but at the same time the plan in its current form is almost a joke compared to what we should have had.

To be fair to the plan, it does use the best possible RT routes, as well as well planned out stops.

The City and Western and have informal understanding about the plan going forward. The University has approved BRT running through its campus given several conditions, and the last design the city put forward was not rejected by the University either. As far as I can tell the University is including the designs in its plans for a car-free campus core and more pedestrian friendly campus.

Construction of the north corridor isn't scheduled to begin for a number of years anyway, which is probably why they're taking their time putting pen to paper. IIRC it's the east corridor that sees construction first, and the whole system will not be built all at once, but rather a stretch at a time. IIRC the northern corridor will not even be the 2nd one built

[Dupcheck]

I am afraid the so called "Rapid" Transit will not be very rapid. Our city has too many stop lights and too many railway crossings. It will never be like the one Ottawa had, which was mostly separated from car traffic and signal lights. I think we would be lying to ourselves if we thought that the BRT will solve the problems of the transit system. If we can not make it Rapid, lets make it pretty and build an LRT instead, like the Toronto street cars. It would give the city a lot more character, and allow the businesses to settle around its rails. We are a train track city after all. When we are given lemons (train tracks) lets make lemonade and build LRT instead. Embrace what we are good at and lets make it better with a lot more character. When the students are not using the Street Cars, the young kids and parents would love to go on it for fun as excursions!

[haljackey]

From the London memes facebook group



https://www.facebook.com/JustLondonMemes...79215791/181615385822703/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/JustLondonMemes...jaa9ij1wk83ahWcR14j7-U-rcjop-W4c&fref=nf

[haljackey]

Email from Councillor Jesse Helmer that I got:

-----

Good afternoon

I’m growing increasingly worried that politics may paralyze our progress in building a better city.

I’m a strong believer in “politics in full sentences,” as Mayors Don Iveson and Naheed Nenshi would say, so I’m going to try my best to explain, in detail, why I now support London’s bus rapid transit plan, despite not supporting it initially and advocating strongly for light rail, the tunnel and an underground station at Oxford and Richmond, all of which have been dropped from the original plan over time.

Over the past 3.5 years, along with my colleagues, I’ve attended a lot of rapid transit meetings and read more than 8,500 pages of reports on rapid transit.

Here's is an attempt to share some of what I’ve learned in those 8,500 pages in 8,500 words.

If you find it helpful, please share it with other folks who are interested in rapid transit.

Best,
Jesse

226-268-7536

https://medium.com/@jessehelmer/open-letter-to-londoners-on-rapid-transit-b6777ff9ea4a

[Djeffery]

I recall Matt Brown saying, back when LRT was still the plan, that London deserves to not “settle” regarding rapid transit. I can’t recall the exact phrase but that was the sentiment (did he use the phrase transit-lite maybe)?

Then since then, they have constantly scaled it back. Settling, just so they can have something. Scrap the rail for buses, scrap the tunnel, reduce the lanes of traffic so they don’t piss off Richmond residents for taking too much land. Now the suggestion of mixed lanes downtown. The whole route structure seems like “settling”, considering how much of the city is ignored. It already is transit lite, what’s next, just buy the LTC more buses and calling it BRT-lite?

[Underground100]

Council voted on the draft EPR tonight. Tomorrow, council will ratify their own decision. From there, it goes to the TPAP stage.

Phil Squire introduced a motion to defer the entire plan until an agreement between the City and Western was completed. That went down in flames 12-1, with Squire being the only councillor to vote for the deferral. (Virginia Ridley was absent and Josh Morgan recused because he works for Western)

The corridors were passed through, with largely Squire and Michael Van Holst voting against them all. Morgan voted against the west leg and the downtown couplet, believing that mixed traffic on Wharncliffe wasn't the way to go, and issues with the Downtown BIA weren't settled respectively.

[Dupcheck]

Since Western U. seems to be doing all the dictating here; why do not they ask them what do they want to build instead? They will get their way like they always have; why is the city wasting their time here then? Western thinks it rules the city; let's hear what these pricks have to say. I am fed up with this inbred entitled school that gives the city and its citizens more problems than solutions starting with their overpaid heads to the party rotten and street littering students that have no respect for the surrounding environment or the community.

By the way shaving off 10 minutes out of a 1 hour commute does not make a Transit System Rapid unless you are a turtle! They should drop the word "Rapid" out of this equation and stop lying to all. It will be more like a re freshened Bus Transit System.

[warpus]

Originally Posted by Dupcheck

Since Western U. seems to be doing all the dictating here; why do not they ask them what do they want to build instead?

Quit panicking. Western is on-board with the current corridor design, I don't know why anyone thinks differently

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by warpus

Quit panicking. Western is on-board with the current corridor design, I don't know why anyone thinks differently

So is the city agreeing to their demands of never having LRT on campus?

[warpus]

Originally Posted by Dupcheck

By the way shaving off 10 minutes out of a 1 hour commute does not make a Transit System Rapid

You are right, it doesn't, but that's not what makes a rapid transit system rapid. Don't read into everything so literally, actually read up on what rapid transit systems are supposed to accomplish.

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

So is the city agreeing to their demands of never having LRT on campus?

From what I understand that is what they agreed to. However, my personal theory is that when the time comes to revisit the issue and upgrade some of the BRT routes to LRT, the city is going to have a pretty good negotiating position. That is still 15 years away at least, but when we get there, the city can very well say: "Okay then, we'll route the LRT line via Richmond then."

Once BRT is running through Western Campus, all the other bus routes currently running through campus will be redesigned. Western only wants BRT buses running through the campus (i.e. no other bus routes). That is something the city agreed to as well. So let's say it's 15 years from now, the only buses running through campus are BRT, and the students are loving it. They can easily get to Masonville, Richmond row, downtown, the entertainment district, etc. The city starts planning an upgrade of the northern route to LRT and reaches out to the University. The university says "Nope". The city comes back with: "Okay, we're going to route the LRT line via Richmond then and bypass campus, but we will put a station right at university gates.

Students would revolt, even if the city redesigned the bus routes again and started running some bus routes through campus, via the already in place BRT lanes. It would not be popular with the student body at all, once they get used to the convenience of BRT.

The university might also be more receptive to this since from what I understand their main objections were that they didn't want the LRT route running by all the labs near NatSci. The BRT route completely bypasses that part of campus. So when it comes time to sit down and discuss this with the city again, 10-15 years from now, it looks to me as though the city is going to be in a far better negotiating position than the university. Plus you have to remember that the university makes its decisions via a board, more or less, which is made up of people, some of which support this position, and some of which support the opposite. These opinions can and do shift over time.