Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Also, Moose's assets appear to be a rounding error of zero.

lol, yes I was being semi-sarcastic with that comment. Maybe as Step 1 for Moose, they should buy the bridge and bring it on-line in the next 12 months?

As for the schedule, here's my estimate, which I think is generous for the speed at which government operates:
1. Updated condition evaluation and costing: 8 months
2. Analysis, city council votes, addition to the budget: 1-2 months
3. Federal Government/Provincial Government(s) buy-in: 12 months
4. Design/EA/Tendering: 12-24 months
5. Construction: 12-24 months

Total: 4-6 years. If we start.....NOW!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

lol and in who's dream does a 120 year old bridge have the capacity for a double-bike path, let alone high volumes of train traffic? I mean, this rendering looks beautiful, but:

1. The bridge is old and deteriorated, and footings are made from low-strength, large aggregate concrete that hasn't been maintained in decades. The entire thing will vibrate into pieces without massive intervention, even if it did have the theoretical capacity to carry these loads. I can almost guarantee you that nobody has seen what the footings look like under the water, and with such a big question mark, how is this going to be accomplished?

2. If the federal government wanted to offload costs to the City when they decided to sell the bridge in the first place, this was definitely not the way to go about it. Sure we can fix the bridge, but who's going to pay for it? This job is going to be well over $100-500 million when it's done (on a good day).

3. Here's an idea, if the people from MOOSE really want their bridge back, and still estimate it'll cost $45 million, why not sell it to them, and then THEY can fix it with their increased condo fees?

4. The mayor doesn't want to spend the $10M on making the bridge pedestrian safe. But I think this is a small fraction of the overall costs, and might actually be a good deal.

Well ya, the most likely scenario, be it now or within Watson's roughly 10 year time frame, the bridge will be found to be structurally unsound and have to be demolished. And there is no way any one will want to rebuild because the new inter-provincial car bridge and/or Sandy Hill tunnel will be given priority.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Well ya, the most likely scenario, be it now or within Watson's roughly 10 year time frame, the bridge will be found to be structurally unsound and have to be demolished. And there is no way any one will want to rebuild because the new inter-provincial car bridge and/or Sandy Hill tunnel will be given priority.

I agree with your prognosis for the bridge, but I suspect that the Sandy Hill tunnel will prove too costly to consider and that discussion will again turn to another bridge. People really need to start considering living closer to where they work - certainly on the side of the river on which they work!

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I agree with your prognosis for the bridge, but I suspect that the Sandy Hill tunnel will prove too costly to consider and that discussion will again turn to another bridge. People really need to start considering living closer to where they work - certainly on the side of the river on which they work!

With the way real estate prices and rents are, living closer to where you work is not realistic even though thats what I try to do.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I agree with your prognosis for the bridge, but I suspect that the Sandy Hill tunnel will prove too costly to consider and that discussion will again turn to another bridge. People really need to start considering living closer to where they work - certainly on the side of the river on which they work!

"Wishing people lived closer to work" is not a major factor in metropolitan transportation planning.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"Wishing people lived closer to work" is not a major factor in metropolitan transportation planning.

It also assumes that everyone is single. We don't live in a society where people choose partners based on where they work.

The other factor is people change jobs (or the location of their job changes) and not always by their own choice. If unemployed, someone is not likely to turn down a job just because it isn't close to where they live if there are no other options.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It also assumes that everyone is single. We don't live in a society where people choose partners based on where they work.

The other factor is people change jobs (or the location of their job changes) and not always by their own choice. If unemployed, someone is not likely to turn down a job just because it isn't close to where they live if there are no other options.

"Mobility" is actually an important factor in the competitiveness of a metropolitan economy.

This includes mobility between jobs as in opportunities. But also actual geographic mobility of persons to be able to get to and from those jobs.

You certainly don't want your people forsaking better jobs and opportunities simply because it's a PITA getting there.

[OCCheetos]

The city has been given an extension on their decision for the bridge.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-prince-of-wales-bridge-1.4637878?cmp=rss

It will be 30 days after the city's federal court appeal process is done (assuming the court hears the case).

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The city has been given an extension on their decision for the bridge.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-prince-of-wales-bridge-1.4637878?cmp=rss

It will be 30 days after the city's federal court appeal process is done (assuming the court hears the case).

So, status quo for 10 years, or until the bridge falls into the river, whichever comes first.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

So, status quo for 10 years, or until the bridge falls into the river, whichever comes first.

Anybody for a lottery for the honour of pushing the button to blow up the bridge?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Anybody for a lottery for the honour of pushing the button to blow up the bridge?

Only if we rename it the Jim Watson Bridge first.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

So, status quo for 10 years, or until the bridge falls into the river, whichever comes first.

The city is starting to make the NCC look decisive and hasty.

[rocketphish]

Court will hear the city's side of the story about the Prince of Wales Bridge

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: May 3, 2018 | Last Updated: May 3, 2018 6:24 PM EDT

The Federal Court of Appeal has agreed to hear the city’s arguments opposing an order to fix the Prince of Wales Bridge, council learned Thursday.

Federal Transportation Minister Marc Garneau has also asked the city to send him information about the case so he can bring the matter to cabinet, city clerk and solicitor Rick O’Connor told council.

Mayor Jim Watson wrote to Garneau in early March asking for his intervention after the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) forced the city’s decision on the future of the old rail bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau.

The CTA gave the city an ultimatum: discontinue the rail line, or fix the bridge so that it could be used by another rail operator 12 months after being notified by the agency.

Watson told Garneau the CTA didn’t consider the ongoing discussions between the cities of Ottawa and Gatineau about the bridge’s future in connecting the municipal transit services. Ottawa’s Trillium Line stops at Bayview station, just south of the bridge.

Cabinet could uphold, vary or rescind the CTA decision. Watson wants the decision rescinded.

The City of Ottawa owns the bridge but it’s not ready to spend money on the repairs. Watson has also ruled out spending $10 million to install a cycling and pedestrian path across the bridge deck, characterizing it as a waste of money if the city has ambitions to return the bridge as a crossing for trains.

No one is allowed on the bridge.

The CTA investigated the bridge, and the rail line between Bayview station and the bridge, after the Moose Consortium complained about the city removing tracks during the construction of Bayview station, which is a joint Confederation Line and Trillium Line station.

The court stayed the CTA’s order until there’s a decision on the city’s appeal. The court has not set a date for a hearing.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...e-story-about-the-prince-of-wales-bridge

[J.OT13]

Ah, yes;

Watson has also ruled out spending $10 million to install a cycling and pedestrian path across the bridge deck, characterizing it as a waste of money if the city has ambitions to return the bridge as a crossing for trains.

Because 50 million on the Moddie Transitway extension that will be shut down in a couple of years for O-Train conversion was not a waste of money. Or better yet, an 60 million "upgrade" of the Trillium Line that didn't deliver anywhere near the service improvements promised. The 60 million, along with the 6 fancy new trains will be thrown out the window 4 years after it opened for a 600 million "upgrade".

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ah, yes;



Because 50 million on the Moddie Transitway extension that will be shut down in a couple of years for O-Train conversion was not a waste of money. Or better yet, an 60 million "upgrade" of the Trillium Line that didn't deliver anywhere near the service improvements promised. The 60 million, along with the 6 fancy new trains will be thrown out the window 4 years after it opened for a 600 million "upgrade".

That's your fault for believing they would have an 8 min frequency on the Trillium line when it is still not fully double tracked. Even at 12 min frequency i'm happy with that based on my experiences with the line, at least i can count on it to arrive on schedule.

The Moodie transitway extension is just bare bones and it's money saved later when they have to convert it because they would have to spend it anyway if they went to straight LRT.

[J.OT13]

Yes, it's my fault. I voted in favour of flushing 60 million down the toilet.

Pretty sure most of us on the forum, inlcuding myself, were against this and predicted it would fail miserably. It is City staff's fault for over-selling and politicians' fault for believing it was feasible, not the regular citizens. And even if you like the slightly better frequency, it is still a waste of 60 million if the line is shut down and basically re-built a few years later.

And again, no matter how you look at it, money was wasted on the Moodie extension. Yes, some of it can be re-used, but the labour, asphalt and intersection was all wasted.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yes, it's my fault. I voted in favour of flushing 60 million down the toilet.

Pretty sure most of us on the forum, inlcuding myself, were against this and predicted it would fail miserably. It is City staff's fault for over-selling and politicians' fault for believing it was feasible, not the regular citizens. And even if you like the slightly better frequency, it is still a waste of 60 million if the line is shut down and basically re-built a few years later.

And again, no matter how you look at it, money was wasted on the Moodie extension. Yes, some of it can be re-used, but the labour, asphalt and intersection was all wasted.

Extending the transitway is not a waste since it saves on travel time. I have used it many times and have no problem with the city making the right decision for BRT first, LRT later.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

That's your fault for believing they would have an 8 min frequency on the Trillium line when it is still not fully double tracked. Even at 12 min frequency i'm happy with that based on my experiences with the line, at least i can count on it to arrive on schedule.

The Moodie transitway extension is just bare bones and it's money saved later when they have to convert it because they would have to spend it anyway if they went to straight LRT.

I am glad you like it. I hate it. If you have to routinely transfer to a local route, it is unreliable. A 12 minute schedule does not match up properly with 30 minute frequency on local bus routes. I have tried it and you never know how to calculate to make sure you make your transfer. Bah!

Maybe things are better now, but I could never rely on the Trillium Line to be on time either.

If the Trillium Line is ever to be a trunk line to serve the south half of the city, we need something that allows transfers to be reliable. The current 12 minute frequency does not work with connecting bus routes. This little detail cannot be forgotten.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I am glad you like it. I hate it. If you have to routinely transfer to a local route, it is unreliable. A 12 minute schedule does not match up properly with 30 minute frequency on local bus routes. I have tried it and you never know how to calculate to make sure you make your transfer. Bah!

Maybe things are better now, but I could never rely on the Trillium Line to be on time either.

If the Trillium Line is ever to be a trunk line to serve the south half of the city, we need something that allows transfers to be reliable. The current 12 minute frequency does not work with connecting bus routes. This little detail cannot be forgotten.

You might find this strange is that I do transfer to local route 42 to get to work and I find it the most reliable bus route out of all of them. I think OC Transpo should adjust the schedules of the local routes so there aren't as many missed connections such as in your case i'm assuming

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

You might find this strange is that I do transfer to local route 42 to get to work and I find it the most reliable bus route out of all of them. I think OC Transpo should adjust the schedules of the local routes so there aren't as many missed connections such as in your case i'm assuming

OC Transpo has not figured that out after years of operating the Trillium Line at 12 minute frequency. It is OK perhaps at peak periods when bus frequency is better, but 30 minute frequency does not consistently match up with 12 minute frequency even with things working perfectly. I have been on the Trillium Line and those slow downs and waits at various spots get frustrating as I wonder if I am getting to Greenboro in time for my local bus and then end up with a 29 minute wait. bah! I guess my luck has not been good over many trips but my experiences have been more bad than good.