Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MichaelC

Most of Edmonton's LRT stations either have regular bus stops, a transit centre, or a park and ride lot.

That doesn't really answer my question about what type of bus service Edmonton has for connecting to the LRT. Do most people in the suburbs have a bus within a short walk of their home that takes them directly to the nearest LRT station or do they have more of a traditional grid network of buses that forces many people to transfer to get to the LRT station?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That doesn't really answer my question about what type of bus service Edmonton has for connecting to the LRT. Do most people in the suburbs have a bus within a short walk of their home that takes them directly to the nearest LRT station or do they have more of a traditional grid network of buses that forces many people to transfer to get to the LRT station?

The west half of Edmonton is not served by LRT so many of those areas are still served by direct buses to downtown.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

And they don't seem that much narrower than Montreal's Metro station platforms. I was at Guy-Concordia today, and I don't think the platform was any wider than 12' (possibly as little as 10').


Guy-Concordia [CC BY-SA 3.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0)], by Alexcaban, from Wikimedia Commons

Then you have the Bonaventure's of the Metro. Way overbuilt, but spectacular!

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That doesn't really answer my question about what type of bus service Edmonton has for connecting to the LRT. Do most people in the suburbs have a bus within a short walk of their home that takes them directly to the nearest LRT station or do they have more of a traditional grid network of buses that forces many people to transfer to get to the LRT station?

Looking at their system map, seems to be mostly a hub a spoke model, even outside of the LRT areas

https://www.edmonton.ca/ets/system-maps.aspx

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Looking at their system map, seems to be mostly a hub a spoke model, even outside of the LRT areas

https://www.edmonton.ca/ets/system-maps.aspx

If you look at the downtown map, you see as many as 20 bus routes at single stop in the downtown area. This is whole lot different than what Ottawa is planning. There are still a lot of bus routes including peak hour routes feeding downtown Edmonton. Edmonton understands that LRT does not serve everybody well. Ottawa does not get this.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Looking at their system map, seems to be mostly a hub a spoke model, even outside of the LRT areas

https://www.edmonton.ca/ets/system-maps.aspx

Never realized how small their LRT system was. And compared to Ottawa, here's the incredible thing, we'll go from the Confederation Line with half the total length of Edmonton to double the total LRT system length of Edmonton today, after Stage 2. Ottawa will still have more LRT after current Valley Line extensions (currently under construction). And even after they reach Lewis Farms, Ottawa will only have an LRT system that is 4 km shorter.....and Ottawa will still have lots of BRT running as well.

That's with Ottawa and Edmonton both vying for 5th place in the size for CMA. This really shows the power of Ottawa deploying BRT first and then converting to LRT. We got to build up the bones of the infrastructure for lower cost. And then convert as needed later.

[MichaelC]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Never realized how small their LRT system was. And compared to Ottawa, here's the incredible thing, we'll go from the Confederation Line with half the total length of Edmonton to double the total LRT system length of Edmonton today, after Stage 2. Ottawa will still have more LRT after current Valley Line extensions (currently under construction). And even after they reach Lewis Farms, Ottawa will only have an LRT system that is 4 km shorter.....and Ottawa will still have lots of BRT running as well.

That's with Ottawa and Edmonton both vying for 5th place in the size for CMA. This really shows the power of Ottawa deploying BRT first and then converting to LRT. We got to build up the bones of the infrastructure for lower cost. And then convert as needed later.

How large will the O-Train system be when stage two is complete? And how much funding is available for Ottawa in the foreseeable future? It is quite amazing that Ottawa is building out the LRT network so quickly. Edmonton's current system is 24.3km, the Valley Line is completely funded and will be 27km long when finished plus Edmonton has funding for "other priorities". As of the last census Edmonton and Ottawa's populations where nearly identical (Ottawa had about 2000 more people) however Edmonton's growth rate is 2.5 times that off Ottawa's.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by MichaelC

How large will the O-Train system be when stage two is complete? And how much funding is available for Ottawa in the foreseeable future? It is quite amazing that Ottawa is building out the LRT network so quickly. Edmonton's current system is 24.3km, the Valley Line is completely funded and will be 27km long when finished plus Edmonton has funding for "other priorities". As of the last census Edmonton and Ottawa's populations where nearly identical (Ottawa had about 2000 more people) however Edmonton's growth rate is 2.5 times that off Ottawa's.

It'll be 54km after stage 2, which I think is a smidge more than the two existing LRT lines in Edmonton plus phase 1 of the valley line. But there is still a fair amount of busway left in Ottawa after stage 2 (much of it fully grade separated) so I think total rapid transit is still quite a bit more in Ottawa.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by MichaelC

How large will the O-Train system be when stage two is complete? And how much funding is available for Ottawa in the foreseeable future? It is quite amazing that Ottawa is building out the LRT network so quickly. Edmonton's current system is 24.3km, the Valley Line is completely funded and will be 27km long when finished plus Edmonton has funding for "other priorities". As of the last census Edmonton and Ottawa's populations where nearly identical (Ottawa had about 2000 more people) however Edmonton's growth rate is 2.5 times that off Ottawa's.

To add to what kmcamp has said, the city of Gatineau has just officially approved the LRT as the mode of transportation chosen to link the west end of the city with its downtown core and DT Ottawa. I guess that will bring 12 to 15 more kms of rail to the region. No real timeline was given but they appeared in hurry to capitalize on the current happiness of the FEDs and Quebec government to support such projects.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=222932

The city of Ottawa is also currently sketching parts of stage 3 of its masterplan which will include an extra 11 kms in the west end of the city in about 10 to 15 years.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If you look at the downtown map, you see as many as 20 bus routes at single stop in the downtown area. This is whole lot different than what Ottawa is planning. There are still a lot of bus routes including peak hour routes feeding downtown Edmonton. Edmonton understands that LRT does not serve everybody well. Ottawa does not get this.

Has everyone forgotten Calgary's LRT? It is almost 60km long.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

To add to what kmcamp has said, the city of Gatineau has just officially approved the LRT as the mode of transportation chosen to link the west end of the city with its downtown core and DT Ottawa. I guess that will bring 12 to 15 more kms of rail to the region. No real timeline was given but they appeared in hurry to capitalize on the current happiness of the FEDs and Quebec government to support such projects.

That's not completely accurate. Gatineau council has approved the idea to pursue LRT as the mode of transportation to connect the West end to downtown and Ottawa, but thus far they do not have the support of STO transit, the province, the feds, or even a complete plan.

It's a positive first step, and the unanimity of the vote was a pleasant surprise, but it's far from a sure thing, and certainly far from materializing any time soon.

The Gatineau LRT plan is not even as advanced as the Kanata Stage 3 LRT.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MichaelC

How large will the O-Train system be when stage two is complete? And how much funding is available for Ottawa in the foreseeable future? It is quite amazing that Ottawa is building out the LRT network so quickly. Edmonton's current system is 24.3km, the Valley Line is completely funded and will be 27km long when finished plus Edmonton has funding for "other priorities". As of the last census Edmonton and Ottawa's populations where nearly identical (Ottawa had about 2000 more people) however Edmonton's growth rate is 2.5 times that off Ottawa's.

It is because we are building off of existing Transitway infrastructure. The expensive parts of the LRT are where we don't have existing transitway infrastructure to reuse (namely the tunnel downtown, the connection between Dominion and Lincoln Fields and the shortcut to Pinecrest). Yes the RTG is replacing a bunch of aging infrastructure that has suffered salt damage, but that would have needed to be done in the next decade or so anyway.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Has everyone forgotten Calgary's LRT? It is almost 60km long.

Not forgotten, just comparing to Edmonton. Calgary is way in the lead, and will still be there with the addition of the green line bringing their total up to 105km

[rocketphish]

There was no last spike, but the Confederation Line track is finished
Trains can now be tested in both directions on the 12.5-km rail line

Stu Mills, Joanne Chianello · CBC News
Posted: May 04, 2018 7:50 PM ET | Last Updated: May 4







Politicians, media and an actor playing a 19th-century railway financier poured into the eastern end of the LRT tunnel to install the final piece of Ottawa's light rail track on Friday, a significant milestone in the city's $2-billion transit project slated to be completed by November.

Trains will soon be tested in each direction along the 12.5-kilometre track in the lead-up to the public opening day scheduled for later this year.

After the requisite speeches, Mayor Jim Watson, MPP Bob Chiarelli and MP Mona Fortier — wearing top hats — and a slew of other local politicians posed in front of the iconic photo of The Last Spike hung in Tremblay Station. Some rolled their eyes at the stunt, and even the mayor admitted it was "a little cheesy," but everyone seemed excited to get on the train.

Watson blew a train whistle to signal for politicians, staff from the city and Rideau Transit Group — the consortium building the LRT — and reporters to board the Alstom Citadis Spirit train headed west to University of Ottawa station.

Friday's ceremony was the first time many have been on the new LRT. "This is the best!" enthused Coun. Jean Cloutier. "Very quiet, very smooth."

The light-rail trains will travel about 35 km/h between most stations, although they may travel as fast as 70 km/h between Blair and Cyrville stations. This train took participants to just inside the eastern portal of the 2.5-kilometre-long tunnel running under downtown.

Dozens were on hand for Friday's ceremony and took the opportunity to take photos of the train, the completed concrete tunnel, and, of course, themselves.

An actor playing Donald Smith — who drove in the last spike in the CPR — helps Watson, Chiarelli and Fortier hammer gold spray-painted clips into the last piece of track in the Confederation Line. Don't worry. RTG will be replacing those clips.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-tunnel-track-finished-1.4649177

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

It'll be 54km after stage 2, which I think is a smidge more than the two existing LRT lines in Edmonton plus phase 1 of the valley line. But there is still a fair amount of busway left in Ottawa after stage 2 (much of it fully grade separated) so I think total rapid transit is still quite a bit more in Ottawa.

City website says 64km.

https://ottawa.ca/en/news/city-secures-funding-extend-o-train-trillium-line-heart-riverside-south

[MichaelC]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Not forgotten, just comparing to Edmonton. Calgary is way in the lead, and will still be there with the addition of the green line bringing their total up to 105km

Only the first phase of the Green Line is funded which will add 20km bringing the total to 80km

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Not forgotten, just comparing to Edmonton. Calgary is way in the lead, and will still be there with the addition of the green line bringing their total up to 105km

So, comparing ourselves with the least, not the most? Sad.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, comparing ourselves with the least, not the most? Sad.

Some conversations have been involving Edmonton because a member originating from that city has been inquiring about LRT matters in Ottawa. There's no shame in what Edmonton has done in terms of transportation. Ultimately, there are 3 cities in Canada that are very similar. I think that it's normal that each will want to compare themselves with the other 2.

[Kitchissippi]

Seeing a train and people in the tunnel puts the scale in perspective — the train is relatively snug in that tunnel, the pantograph is almost fully folded.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Has everyone forgotten Calgary's LRT? It is almost 60km long.

Nobody has forgotten Calgary. The comparison to Edmonton is because, that city has about the same population as Ottawa. Compare the CMAs.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, comparing ourselves with the least, not the most? Sad.

I'd be willing to bet that between LRT and BRT, Ottawa will have a larger rapid transit network than Calgary after Stage 2. And their large LRT network has not been effective in getting people to actually use transit. Ottawa wins where it counts.

http://humantransit.org/2010/10/further-cause-for-canadian-triumphalism.html

Originally Posted by roger1818

It is because we are building off of existing Transitway infrastructure.

This is exactly my point. Ottawa's strategy has proven right. Deploy BRT first. Switch to LRT when population and transit usage justifies it.

There are many here who complain and argue that Ottawa should have built LRT sooner. And there is some truth to that. The current Confederation Line is about 15 years late. And really should have been started when bus congestion in the downtown core was becoming obvious.

However, the strategy of building BRT, at a lower cost first, and converting later is proving it's worth. It effectively allowed Ottawa to right-size transit infrastructure investment and deploy substantially higher quality transit service in the suburbs than is typical for a North American city. They city got to build BRT in those parts for a rather reasonable cost. That enabled the provision of rapid transit to the suburbs for decades, while protecting those corridors for conversion later. And when due, it's been a relatively quicker and lower cost conversion to almost subway-grade service.

I actually think Ottawa might have had lower transit usage and a smaller rapid transit network if the city had relied only LRT from the beginning. There's a lesson here for smaller cities around the 500k mark, like London.