Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 255

Sheba · #**5081** Posted **Apr 25, 2018, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Are they planning on one or two lanes of vehicle traffic on 104th?

I'd assume the worst and figure they're planning on one lane of traffic each direction on 104th. It doesn't look like they have enough room to add another traffic lane and have sidewalks (and bike paths) as well.

flipper316 · #**5082** Posted **Apr 25, 2018, 7:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

I'd assume the worst and figure they're planning on one lane of traffic each direction on 104th. It doesn't look like they have enough room to add another traffic lane and have sidewalks (and bike paths) as well.

And that's just them being cheap of course. This thing is estimated at a couple of billion even though we don't know the true cost yet. Who knows if they'll even tell us, or wait till after this white elephant gets built. It's not like there's really anything important on both sides of 104th. Can't they easily buy some properties up if needed and keep it 4 lanes it's not like the cost is gonna matter at that point due th estimated price tag of this project.

Reecemartin · #**5083** Posted **Apr 25, 2018, 7:36 PM**

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Reecemartin · #**5084** Posted **Apr 25, 2018, 7:38 PM**

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Reecemartin · #**5085** Posted **Apr 25, 2018, 7:41 PM**

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Sheba · #**5086** Posted **Apr 25, 2018, 9:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

When was the last time that was promoted? Because iirc its been >5 maybe even >10 years

How about City of Surrey's official youtube page:

Economic Benefits of LRT in Surrey - May 15, 2015
Light Rail for Surrey - Feb 12, 2016

Those are both less than 5 years ago.

Migrant_Coconut · #**5087** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 3:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipper316

And that's just them being cheap of course. This thing is estimated at a couple of billion even though we don't know the true cost yet. Who knows if they'll even tell us, or wait till after this white elephant gets built. It's not like there's really anything important on both sides of 104th. Can't they easily buy some properties up if needed and keep it 4 lanes it's not like the cost is gonna matter at that point due th estimated price tag of this project.

Not a white elephant, thats not the meaning of the term.

Actually, it's exactly the meaning of the term. Merriam-Webster:

Definition of WHITE ELEPHANT
1 : an Asian elephant of a pale color that is sometimes venerated in India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and Myanmar
2 a : a property requiring much care and expense and yielding little profit
b : an object no longer of value to its owner but of value to others
c : something of little or no value

CanSpice · #**5088** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 4:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Actually, it's exactly the meaning of the term. Merriam-Webster:

Definition of WHITE ELEPHANT
1 : an Asian elephant of a pale color that is sometimes venerated in India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and Myanmar
2 a : a property requiring much care and expense and yielding little profit
b : an object no longer of value to its owner but of value to others
c : something of little or no value

It's a huge stretch to say that the Surrey LRT would fall under any of those definitions. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's going to be useless or have no value.

KPELLY · #**5089** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 6:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's a huge stretch to say that the Surrey LRT would fall under any of those definitions. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's going to be useless or have no value.

Seems almost exactly the definition of 2a.

CanSpice · #**5090** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPELLY

Seems almost exactly the definition of 2a.

Then the freeways and streets and bridges are even better examples of white elephants because they deliver no profit at all while requiring a huge amount of care and expense.

Sheba · #**5091** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 8:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Then the freeways and streets and bridges are even better examples of white elephants because they deliver no profit at all while requiring a huge amount of care and expense.

If you think of profit in dollar terms. This LRT is not going to save people time compared to what's in place now, while the cost for it continues to soar. In that respect it is a while elephant.

I'm debating if pink elephants would be better or worse

Reecemartin · #**5092** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 8:20 PM**

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Reecemartin · #**5093** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 8:22 PM**

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Firebrand · #**5094** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 8:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

No matter what you say having a dedicated rail row with trains that will be a smoother ride than a bus will be an improvement and given all the extra development and increased land value its actually going to be a huge net positive for the cities finances. No matter the claims that the 96 never gets caught behind other traffic or at red lights a dedicated ROW will atleast improve the consistency of trip time.

Before you claim that the LRT is going to cost TONS because it may get in a crash once every month, let me remind you that the buses currently on the route also have been in crashes and they cost more to fuel and maintain while we are at it.

God, I’ve been cringing from the comments about that 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

scryer · #**5095** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 8:50 PM**

Wait, wait, wait....

Before it happens, are we seriously about to regurgitate the LRT vs. Skytrain debate over elephants?!

trofirhen · #**5096** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 8:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

If you think of profit in dollar terms. This LRT is not going to save people time compared to what's in place now, while the cost for it continues to soar. In that respect it is a while elephant.

I'm debating if pink elephants would be better or worse

As I've said before, (if I may repeat it), one of the best ways to speed up the LRT and make it efficient and worthy of all the hype, is to put it though tunnels at major intersections.
This is a modest, but very effective, form of grade separation. It was used in Brussels bedore the tram became a full-fledged underground subway rrt. We could do it, too.

Firebrand · #**5097** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 9:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

As I've said before, (if I may repeat it), one of the best ways to speed up the LRT and make it efficient and worthy of all the hype, is to put it though tunnels at major intersections.
This is a modest, but very effective, form of grade separation. It was used in Brussels bedore the tram became a full-fledged underground subway rrt. We could do it, too.

Well, Reece said the L-Line doesn’t need tunnels on that awkward intersection because of traffic calming (or something like that).

Sheba · #**5098** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 3:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Ten seconds did you watch either of these? Theres literally not a moment when cars are shown driving parallel within the LRT Row so no....

There's also very little vehicle traffic shown. In the real world with a lot of people driving their cars on these corridors, I have no doubt there are drivers who would happily drive over the painted line shown in those videos and drive on the tracks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scryer

Wait, wait, wait....

Before it happens, are we seriously about to regurgitate the LRT vs. Skytrain debate over elephants?!

White and pink elephants

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

As I've said before, (if I may repeat it), one of the best ways to speed up the LRT and make it efficient and worthy of all the hype, is to put it though tunnels at major intersections.
This is a modest, but very effective, form of grade separation. It was used in Brussels bedore the tram became a full-fledged underground subway rrt. We could do it, too.

But then it can't be value engineered, so it won't happen here. Plus how to keep cars out of transit tunnels...

Migrant_Coconut · #**5099** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 3:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Well, Reece said the L-Line doesn’t need tunnels on that awkward intersection because of traffic calming (or something like that).

Traffic calming for KGB? That's odd; the idea behind that is to calm the side streets and funnel everybody onto the arterial.

Firebrand · #**5100** Posted **Apr 27, 2018, 3:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Traffic calming for KGB? That's odd; the idea behind that is to calm the side streets and funnel everybody onto the arterial.

I was referring to 102nd Ave, Innovation Blvd, and 104 between Innovation and KGB Blvds, where car traffic will be dramatically reduced. Then again, some people make excuses that LRT on 104 will suppose to “calm traffic” by removing two lanes, so that more people will take the train—I believe it was Paul Lee who said that.