Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

This is hogwash. I work with these statistics all the time, and you are flat-out wrong.

Absolutely. I suppose maybe not all parts of Canada are the same, but around here, the net flow is totally obvious (and it's westbound across the Atlantic).

For them, they find that here, jobs are plentiful and cost of living is cheap.

Of course Canada is a large country and this may not apply to Vancouver. Europeans moving here would not be happy in Vancouver, given what they're moving here for.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

This is hogwash. I work with these statistics all the time, and you are flat-out wrong.

Are there any numbers around on the number of Canadians emigrating to Europe? Apart from first generation folk moving back home, I'd have thought the numbers would be fairly modest. I suppose things might look a bit different if you included people moving abroad temporarily for work or study. Aren't the UK and France still among our top ten source countries for immigrants?

I've known four people who have emigrated to Europe from Canada, but perhaps it is more common that I realized.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by osmo

^^^ Rinsing drug money through Real Estate is as old as time. Where are the articles that point to the volume of B.C. weed money that gets rinsed through real estate? All of the 'off-the-path' dudes I grew up with who decided to make their money, in more, err... umm... green and exotic ways ... all rinsed their money through B.C. real estate - Condo Penthouses were the preferred method. Already hundreds of millions of B.C. bud money that gets rinsed and washed through Real estate and B.C. officials have looked the other way for decades. Way back in the late 90s people were sounding the alarm on drug money laundering way before the Chinese ever got fully involved in the illicit scene. Within the early 00s a shift with Chinese and South Asian gangs was getting involved.Now it just seems it has branched out to the outward networks form these culture groups but the problem has been around for a long time now.

I hope marijuana legalization will help with this.

This type of corruption makes it hard for ordinary people to afford real estate because Vancouver has a restricted supply and the money launderers don't pay income taxes, which go up to around 50% for high earners in BC who correctly report their income to the CRA. Meanwhile the taxes on real estate can be ~0% if the money laundering is structured optimally.

[cornholio]

No idea why people are talking about race. I am talking about demographic changes from a economic point of view. How people value finite resources such as time, shops, taxes, HOUSING, planing etc. Etc. From a point of view economics are directly tied to demographics and everything that impacts us in our daily lives is tied to economics. If you take 2.4 million Vancouverites and remove them and replace them with 2.4 million Manilites everything will change, the city and how it's shaped will change and to be on topic housing prices will change, zoning will change, types of housing being built will change and everything else that is not part of this topic. And for me it will certainly not change for the better because I am not a Manilite, I weather I like it or not have different views, different tastes, different priorities and this new city would be quite different from one that I would feel at home and comfortable in. Change is inevitable but it also can be managed and it also can be too rapid where quality of life for people like me degrades in a few short decades to the point of me not ever wanting to live there. I am happy and made a great choice and to be back on point Vancouver and Toronto realestate is worthless because I would not want to live in these cities because of where they are infrusturcrure wise and social wise economically wise etc. and because things will get oh so much worse in the coming years. There is nothing positive on the horizon for me in these cities, nothing where you can say things will get better. The cities will grow by hundreds of thousands more, infrusturcrure will end up even worse and demographics will continue to rapidly change and everything economically will change along with it and diverge from what I consider a place I want to live in.

[MolsonExport]

is that a manifesto?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

is that a manifesto?

The Cornholist Manifesto?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Are there any numbers around on the number of Canadians emigrating to Europe? Apart from first generation folk moving back home, I'd have thought the numbers would be fairly modest. I suppose things might look a bit different if you included people moving abroad temporarily for work or study. Aren't the UK and France still among our top ten source countries for immigrants?

I've known four people who have emigrated to Europe from Canada, but perhaps it is more common that I realized.

Unlike Australia, Canada doesn't track where it's citizens are going to, just one more failure of Canada to keep statistics in this area. by far the majority of Canadians living abroad are in the USA, then HK, UK:
http://www.greatcanadianvanlines.com/top-5-countries-canadians-move-to/

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Cornholist Manifesto?

Almost. Cornholiest manifesto.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't know if the other posters are racist or not, but it's hard to see this as anything other than a personal attack. It would be better to discuss the issues rather than the unknown motivations of other forumers.

Setting all that aside, I wonder why we think it is so bad for people to not want the demographics around them to change, or to question any changes in the share of Canadian-born vs. immigrants (including those who don't speak much English or speak it as a second language). I don't think racism is required to explain why people sometimes don't like changes in these areas. Not everyone is gregarious or interested in learning about other cultures, and most people like to have a critical mass of amenities tailored to their own culture.

I can imagine a situation where someone grows up in a town and their peer group is gradually replaced by newcomers from another country. The person doesn't necessarily have anything against the newcomers per se, but they speak another language and mostly stick to themselves, or simply have different customs (e.g. go to some church or club that is not really open to people not from their culture). There can be some social drawbacks to this situation even before we start talking about things like housing prices (which are completely out of control in some cities).

Another angle is that it matters what happens to different sub-groups in a city. If we look at Vancouver, the population grew from about 2.1 million to about 2.4 million from 2006-2016. But the "European Canadian" population stayed the same or declined slightly (based on figures from here and here; I think the 2006 numbers don't include aboriginals, which are around 3% of the city).

Canada's non-visible-minority population grew during this period (due to natural increase). Metro Vancouver's a destination for visible minorities, but it's seemingly failing to retain and attract non-visible-minorities. There might similarly be a small but growing exodus of local-born visible minorities but I don't have numbers for that. I also have a feeling that there's an influx of Canadians who try to make a go of it in Vancouver and leave after a few years of living in a basement apartment.

To me the most obvious explanation of these overall trends is that Vancouver's standard of living is getting worse compared to the rest of North America, but it's still good compared to a lot of places in Asia, so we are preferentially getting a lot of migration from Asia. We also get a lot of real estate buyers and an unknown number of people who claim to live here for tax and immigration purposes but don't really. This probably isn't a great overall situation in terms of long-term outcomes for Vancouverites.

So Vancouver's white population barely grew in 10 years compared to it's non-white population... surely amenities "tailored for them" didn't decline. Amenities for Asians have simply gotten plentiful. How did it turn into "the last place I would wish for anyone to live in"?

So maybe something about slowly becoming a minority? Is that like a bad thing, being a minority? lol

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by cornholio

No idea why people are talking about race. I am talking about demographic changes from a economic point of view. How people value finite resources such as time, shops, taxes, HOUSING, planing etc. Etc. From a point of view economics are directly tied to demographics and everything that impacts us in our daily lives is tied to economics. If you take 2.4 million Vancouverites and remove them and replace them with 2.4 million Manilites everything will change, the city and how it's shaped will change and to be on topic housing prices will change, zoning will change, types of housing being built will change and everything else that is not part of this topic. And for me it will certainly not change for the better because I am not a Manilite, I weather I like it or not have different views, different tastes, different priorities and this new city would be quite different from one that I would feel at home and comfortable in. Change is inevitable but it also can be managed and it also can be too rapid where quality of life for people like me degrades in a few short decades to the point of me not ever wanting to live there. I am happy and made a great choice and to be back on point Vancouver and Toronto realestate is worthless because I would not want to live in these cities because of where they are infrusturcrure wise and social wise economically wise etc. and because things will get oh so much worse in the coming years. There is nothing positive on the horizon for me in these cities, nothing where you can say things will get better. The cities will grow by hundreds of thousands more, infrusturcrure will end up even worse and demographics will continue to rapidly change and everything economically will change along with it and diverge from what I consider a place I want to live in.

I would suggest you read this https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/17/housing-markets-globalization-imf_a_23412706/

It is called globalization, I realize that you provide demographics as a quise towards your racist views. The reality is that it is better for you to live in a small eastern european city. Just like it is better for Pinion to live his life someplace else. When Salt Spring Island guy and Whatnext move I am certain we will all be a happier society!

The reality is all of these people will never run away from themselves. So it is reasonable to believe they will find themselves unhappy but at least they will be unhappy somewhere else and I will not have to hear about it!

[vid]

Originally Posted by cornholio

No idea why people are talking about race. I am talking about demographic changes from a economic point of view. How people value finite resources such as time, shops, taxes, HOUSING, planing etc. Etc. From a point of view economics are directly tied to demographics and everything that impacts us in our daily lives is tied to economics. If you take 2.4 million Vancouverites and remove them and replace them with 2.4 million Manilites everything will change, the city and how it's shaped will change and to be on topic housing prices will change, zoning will change, types of housing being built will change and everything else that is not part of this topic. And for me it will certainly not change for the better because I am not a Manilite, I weather I like it or not have different views, different tastes, different priorities and this new city would be quite different from one that I would feel at home and comfortable in. Change is inevitable but it also can be managed and it also can be too rapid where quality of life for people like me degrades in a few short decades to the point of me not ever wanting to live there. I am happy and made a great choice and to be back on point Vancouver and Toronto realestate is worthless because I would not want to live in these cities because of where they are infrusturcrure wise and social wise economically wise etc. and because things will get oh so much worse in the coming years. There is nothing positive on the horizon for me in these cities, nothing where you can say things will get better. The cities will grow by hundreds of thousands more, infrusturcrure will end up even worse and demographics will continue to rapidly change and everything economically will change along with it and diverge from what I consider a place I want to live in.

Do you see this button?



There is a reason it has that shape.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I would suggest you read this https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/17/housing-markets-globalization-imf_a_23412706/

It is called globalization, I realize that you provide demographics as a quise towards your racist views. The reality is that it is better for you to live in a small eastern european city. Just like it is better for Pinion to live his life someplace else. When Salt Spring Island guy and Whatnext move I am certain we will all be a happier society!

The reality is all of these people will never run away from themselves. So it is reasonable to believe they will find themselves unhappy but at least they will be unhappy somewhere else and I will not have to hear about it!

Actually I’m pretty sure we’d all be happier when you crawl back under whatever bridge you came from.

[CountryMike]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The way that you present the issue sounds quite similar to discussions of gentrification.



I'm actually skeptical that you don't understand such reactions given your high intelligence and apparent cultural awareness. It isn't anything more complicated than the Western world's history of subjugating, excluding or marginalizing those of non-European origin, which raises the suspicions that an area dominated by European descendants has remained so through the exclusion of others (either active discrimination or passive unwelcoming attitudes), while someone saying that there aren't enough people of European origin in an area raises the suspicion that the statement indicates a veiled desire for such exclusion. We're simply not far enough past the era when such discrimination was common to be rid of the baggage. Therefore everything ends up being judged against that backdrop, even though it obviously isn't always accurate. Can you honestly say this is something you weren't aware of?

Discrimination or the exclusion of other cultures pretty much exists in every nation on the Earth. To say it is a western world thing is disingenuous. The fact is the western world is the most welcoming of immigrants from other cultures. White people are set to become a minority in Canada because they are so welcoming. What other countries out there welcome immigrants like Canada does?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Almost. Cornholiest manifesto.

Even better!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CountryMike

Discrimination or the exclusion of other cultures pretty much exists in every nation on the Earth. To say it is a western world thing is disingenuous. The fact is the western world is the most welcoming of immigrants from other cultures. White people are set to become a minority in Canada because they are so welcoming. What other countries out there welcome immigrants like Canada does?

One thing I will say anyway is that if it's unacceptable to paint all Arabs/Muslims with the same brush as terrorists, or all African-Americans as criminals (both of which I agree should be unacceptable), then it should be unacceptable to paint all European origin people as racist, bloodthirsty colonizers.

BTW (and this is important) this consideration applies to people past and present.

Even in the darkest colonial eras there were tons of European-origin people who gave their lives to help and even save the lives of non-European people all over the world. By fighting for justice alongside them, to eradicating diseases and healing the sick, etc.

[1overcosc]

Plus there's plenty of European nations that never engaged in colonialism. The Norwegians, Czechs, Hungarians, Greeks...

Some of these have victims of colonialism/foreign occupation themselves. Greece was occupied by the Ottoman Turks for centuries and the Czechs have spent most of the last 500 years being second class citizens in their own country to Austrian Hapsburg, Nazi German, and Soviet rulers.

[MolsonExport]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[ssiguy]

Well it seems Chinese ~investors~ and money launderers are running scared in BC now that Christy and developer friends no longer rule in Victoria. Here are the latest sales/inventory figures for major Vancouver area markets for single family homes for March 20 to April 2018 compared to the same monthly period in 2017.

*** A word of caution as some realtors, developers, speculators, and money launderers may find the following report `disturbing`:

Vancouver..............sales -61%, inventory + 29%
West Vancouver......sales -51%, inventory +25%
North Vancouver............ -47%, ............. +60%
Delta............................ -65% ............. +16%
Port Moody.................... -44% .............. +50%
Burnaby........................ -62% .............. +25%
Richmond...................... -75% .............. +23%
Coquitlam..................... -61% ............... +48%
Langley......................... -42% ............... +29%
Surrey.......................... -60% ............... +10%
Maple Ridge................... -25% ............... +18%
Port Coquitlam................ -34% .............. +29%
New Westminster............. -36% ............... +58%

[Docere]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Plus there's plenty of European nations that never engaged in colonialism. The Norwegians, Czechs, Hungarians, Greeks...

Some of these have victims of colonialism/foreign occupation themselves. Greece was occupied by the Ottoman Turks for centuries and the Czechs have spent most of the last 500 years being second class citizens in their own country to Austrian Hapsburg, Nazi German, and Soviet rulers.

Ask a Slovak how they feel about Hungarians.

Hungarians still whine about the Treaty of Trianon nearly a century ago as the greatest injustice in history and blame it (and George Soros) for all their present day problems.

[1overcosc]

^ I meant to write Romanians but for some reason Hungarians came out. I realize the mistake now.