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  #2041  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
The key is to have the high rise buildings on Lebreton be flexible in use. The balance of condo vs rental vs office will have to be able to change to match changes in demand.

Klipfolio is a possible anchor tenant (they'll be needing a a million+ sq ft HQ sooner or later and Lebreton is best suited).



Didn't Klipfolio just move into a completed renovated space in the World Exchange Building? I doubt they'd be looking to move again in a few years, especially if they have the option to expand in they're new space.

But I do agree that there likely would be some interest for a tech company to set up shop in Lebreton, possibly more then 1 which would be great.
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  #2042  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 1:59 AM
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[/B]

Didn't Klipfolio just move into a completed renovated space in the World Exchange Building? I doubt they'd be looking to move again in a few years, especially if they have the option to expand in they're new space.

But I do agree that there likely would be some interest for a tech company to set up shop in Lebreton, possibly more then 1 which would be great.
Yes. Klipfolio recently moved from Bank & Gloucester to the WEP. However, Klipfolio is rapidly growing (they're really one to watch.. they could possibly match Shopify in size in the next five years) and they'll outgrow their new space in the WEP pretty quickly. While they could probably keep expanding into other suites in the WEP and the immediate area, going to Lebreton would offer the advantage of avoiding the company being split over multiple areas, and would give them the chance to be the anchor tenant of their own building.
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  #2043  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 2:57 AM
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Yup. Shopify is a great example. It went from a fairly small office building in the Market a few years ago to taking a huge chunk in Performance Court and now, they've already leased nearly the entire former EDC building (234 Laurier) in anticipation for further expansion.

Klipfolio mirrors this type of exponential growth. Two years ago, they rented an entire floor of an office building in Centretown and were spilling out onto other floors a short time later.

Here's an article on their move from OBJ;

http://www.obj.ca/article/op-ed-movi...awas-klipfolio
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  #2044  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 4:30 AM
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It would make a lot of sense to make LeBreton a software development hub and leave the CBD to be the government and financial hub and Kanata the hardware development hub. LeBreton Is close enough to downtown to have all the benefits the companies are looking for (and possibly even more). From the Senators' perspective it would give them access to the type of companies that are most likely to buy tickets. It would also result in more lunchtime customers for the bars and restaurants they will want to have nearby. Condos are great but they are only 1 piece of the puzzle to a successful development.
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  #2045  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 2:12 PM
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Interesting concept roger1818. I would be a little bit worried about fluctuation in the high-tech sector, but overall, this might work.
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  #2046  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 4:57 PM
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Reevely talks about Melnyk's LeBreton concerns. He also crunches the numbers for us. If current trends are kept up, we can expect 45,000 condo units to be built in Ottawa within the next 15 years (RVL time frame). If we look at the development corridor from the Chaudière Islands, west through LeBreton and Bayview and south to Preston and Carling, 15,000 units are planned. Add to that Tunney's (3,500 units) and Booth (no numbers are out yet, but we can guess around 2,000 maybe), that's 20,500 units (note that a fraction of those are on Zibi's Gatineau side) out of the 45,000 city wide.

To me, that actually seems like a fairly realistic goal. Add another 5-10 years to that time-frame, and we're in business.

Quote:
REEVELY: Melnyk is right to be worried about financing LeBreton project with condos

David Reevely
Post-Media
April 13, 2018


Eugene Melnyk is fretting publicly about whether his own proposal for LeBreton Flats is any good and he’s not just blowing smoke.

On his tour of town halls with aggrieved season-ticket holders for his Ottawa Senators, Melnyk started submarining the LeBreton plans. They’re supposed to see the fallow ground in the middle of Ottawa, the scar of a federal mistake in the 1960s, turned into a new residential, culture and entertainment district with a new arena for the Senators.

The arena, putting Ottawa’s one top-flight sports franchise downtown where it belongs, is the heart of the plan. But condos and office buildings are the skeleton, the profitable real-estate part that will pay for everything else. Melnyk and his RendezVous LeBreton group have been negotiating terms with the National Capital Commission to buy the land for almost a year-and-a-half, and reached an agreement in principle in January.

“It’s a huge project with a tremendous risk,” Melnyk said in a recording from one of the fan sessions. “I’m a risk-taker, but this one is really rolling the dice, and if we’re wrong, we’re really bad wrong.”

Specifically, Melnyk said he worried about whether there’ll be a market for the condo units the RendezVous LeBreton plan includes. The land is surrounded by other developments and Ottawa’s only so big a market.

“I’m now hesitating back and saying, ‘You can’t do all this development there and have LeBreton’,” he said.

Melnyk’s a loose talker. He mused about walking away from the LeBreton deal late last year, right when he was on the verge of signing an agreement in principle to move the plan forward. He’s mused about moving the team. He’s left the Senators’ hockey fans bitter over how he treated team captain Daniel Alfredsson and their business fans bitter over how he treated team president Cyril Leeder.

But gee-I-don’t-know-about-dissing your own proposal after it’s been through two rounds of acceptances is special. The NCC group that evaluated the RendezVous LeBreton plan against the one from a group led by Gatineau developer Devcore even worried publicly that the condo component might be too aggressive. No, no, the RendezVous LeBreton people said, we’re confident this’ll work. They seemed to know what they were doing. They sure insisted they did.

Melnyk’s now got a market study of some sort, he said, and it’s worrying him. Asked Thursday, the Senators declined to share it. “(T)hey are evaluating the results at the board level,” senior spokesman Brian Morris said.

So no-go there. But we can sketch out what might have Melnyk worried now with publicly available information.

The Senators’ LeBreton Flats plan includes 4,000 units, to be built in two phases that extend beyond 2032.

A typical year in Ottawa sees about 6,000 housing starts, according to the federal government’s Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., about half of them in multi-residential buildings. Fifteen years is a long planning horizon, people’s habits and desires change and unexpected things happen, but in broad strokes we’d expect local builders to put up about 45,000 condos in that time. Four thousand condos is a lot, but not over 15 years.

The thing is, RendezVous LeBreton won’t have the market all to itself.

Developer Claridge already owns the eastern chunk of LeBreton Flats and, after a bit of a construction lull, just filed paperwork to build another 1,950 units there. Trinity, one of Melnyk’s partners in the RendezVous group, is planning 1,100 units in a complex at Bayview just to the west. Both include several hundred thousand square feet of commercial space and the Trinity project includes offices, too.

Windmill’s Zibi development, just to the north of LeBreton Flats, is to include about 1,200.

Over the next 10 to 15 years, the city also expects a new forest of condos not far away at Preston Street and Carling Avenue, about another 4,000 units. A lot of those went through approvals in a mad rush around 2015 but the would-be builders are now sitting on the land and waiting.

If all these projects are built, RendezVous LeBreton will be in the middle of a 15,000-unit condo corridor from the Ottawa River to Dow’s Lake, and that doesn’t include the Booth Street complex the feds want to offload or another 3,500 units in the long-term plan for redeveloping Tunney’s Pasture.

Melnyk’s project will have prime placement on the light-rail line close to the business district and the Ottawa River, not to mention the Senators’ new arena, the central library, and all of LeBreton Flats’ other fun stuff. It has significant advantages. But Melnyk’s group not only has to sell the condos, it has to sell them profitably and briskly enough to cover the project’s numerous other costs.

The Sens are the centrepiece of a land-development deal that’s supposed to secure the hockey team’s future for generations and create a glorious new neighbourhood in the bargain. That was also the plan when they opened up shop at the Palladium in Kanata in 1996. “West Terrace” never happened (a few box stores and the auto mall aside), the failure crippled multiple owners’ and lenders’ finances, and the Senators’ final corporate collapse and sale in 2003 was how Melnyk got to own the team in the first place. For him to lose it in exactly the same way would be humiliating.

What’s a reasonable bystander to do? Be a bandwagon-jumper. The whole point of a pro sports team is to love it through the downs so the ups are all the sweeter. But that’s emotion talking and sports is, above all, business. Don’t love the Senators, don’t love Eugene Melnyk, and don’t love the plan for LeBreton Flats. If it comes together, we can all wave our banners and cheer ourselves hoarse. But let’s see these people rack up some wins first.

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http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news...1-1b13a8c6ac63
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  #2047  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Reevely talks about Melnyk's LeBreton concerns. He also crunches the numbers for us. If current trends are kept up, we can expect 45,000 condo units to be built in Ottawa within the next 15 years (RVL time frame). If we look at the development corridor from the Chaudière Islands, west through LeBreton and Bayview and south to Preston and Carling, 15,000 units are planned. Add to that Tunney's (3,500 units) and Booth (no numbers are out yet, but we can guess around 2,000 maybe), that's 20,500 units (note that a fraction of those are on Zibi's Gatineau side) out of the 45,000 city wide.

To me, that actually seems like a fairly realistic goal. Add another 5-10 years to that time-frame, and we're in business.



http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news...1-1b13a8c6ac63
What about the rest of the city? There are a lot of good condo locations that are going to suck up market share.

There is already a condo glut in the city. Maybe that is temporary but Ottawa has none of the market conditions that precipated condo booms in other cities.
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  #2048  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 6:01 PM
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Melnyk back to stirring pot on LeBreton Flats

Wayne Scanlan, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 13, 2018 | Last Updated: April 13, 2018 5:44 PM EDT


Senators owner Eugene Melnyk says stuff and the general reaction ranges from grin to chuckle to cringe.

Nearly a decade ago, your servant wrote a column, after considerable thought, suggesting the Senators undertake a major rebuild of their aging, under-achieving roster. Not everyone agreed, but this was hardly an isolated opinion.

An angry Melnyk lashed out the next day at a media conference: “anybody that says we should blow up this organization should get their own bomb and go blow themselves up, OK?”

Nevertheless, within two years, then-general manager Bryan Murray did oversee a major roster shakeup, as Mike Fisher, Chris Kelly and others departed.

Melnyk’s outsized shot at a media member’s hockey take raised eyebrows, but is the kind of hyperbole people have become numb to from the mercurial owner of the Senators, who took over the hockey club and arena in 2003.

Over the years, Melnyk has made a habit of saying outrageous things in public, which is why The Fan 590 in Toronto made a point of having him on the air as often as they could. You never knew when he might call for the NHL to undertake a forensic investigation into an on-ice incident.

In Ottawa, fans and media have learned to take what Melnyk says with myriad grains of salt, understanding that his actions speak louder – check out the changes in corporate staff on the hockey club over the past three years.

This comes to mind given the owner’s latest turn-about on the LeBreton Flats development, a $4-billion project that imagines a community centre, a French language school, retail, housing, public space, and of course, a new ice palace for the NHL Senators. All near a major LRT hub. This is the future, folks.

As recently as Jan. 25, Melnyk and the rest of the RendezVous LeBreton group were enthusiastic about the agreement in principle with the National Capital Commission to develop 49 acres of NCC land just west of Parliament Hill. Tiptoeing carefully in the month after his comments during the NHL 100 Classic stirred a hornet’s nest, Melnyk didn’t make himself available to media at NCC headquarters, but instead issued a statement.

“I am thrilled to be one step closer to bringing Ottawa Senators fans a more enjoyable fan experience,” Melnyk said in the release. “We have moved closer to realizing a vision for LeBreton Flats – creating a place of pride for Ottawa residents, the Ottawa Senators hockey team and visitors.”

This was a completely different sentiment than he expressed during festivities for the outdoor game in mid-December.

“A lot of people question whether we need to be downtown,” Melnyk said at the time. “Because until the law changes, where you can’t give tickets to civil servants, that is a disaster for us … you’re just moving the arena closer to people who can’t get tickets.”

Tickets for free, that is. The reference is to a Treasury Board policy that forbids government types from receiving free tickets from clients, in the way that Bay Street business might in Toronto.

In late January, Melnyk reinforced what he had said following the NCC agreement in principle, telling reporters that the LeBreton arena was “critical.” While an Ottawa NHL team could likely survive in any event, Melnyk said “it has to go forward with the arena project.”

That was his stance, until the other day in a town hall meeting with season’s ticket holders, when Melnyk proclaimed himself “hedging on LeBreton.”

Again, he brought up the government ticket policy (which has long been a bugaboo for the hockey club). But he also publicly questioned a LeBreton partner for developing other land in the area not far from LeBreton. The shot across the bow makes one wonder how the RendezVous “partnership” is able to function.

Melnyk spoke of the “tremendous risk” of LeBreton, and concern about what a move to LeBreton would do to his fans in Kanata. (There is method here, too, because the Senators will need fans at the Canadian Tire Centre for several years until a downtown rink is built).

Clearly, Melnyk is back to that devil’s advocate position while engaged in complicated and ongoing negotiations on LeBreton financing, involving the NCC, the city of Ottawa and Trinity Developments. This is not angry Eugene, it’s tactical Eugene, trying to play his leverage (his team, his rink) to the hilt, trying to work a better deal. Come to me, people.

The sad fallout for those of us who live and work in this community and want to see the Senators thrive and a proper plan executed for LeBreton to serve the area – it feels like we’re all caught up in a high stakes game of chicken.

Who blinks first?

While a downtown arena might indeed be closer to those government employees and politicians who can’t distribute free Sens tickets, it is also closer to the beating heart of the Capital, to long-suffering Gatineau (never truly embraced by the Senators, despite some token gestures) and to the dining and entertainment options fans want to mix with their hockey outings.

The hope is that the rhetoric and posturing give way to sleeves-rolled up and a collective push to do what’s right for the region.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lebreton-flats
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  #2049  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2018, 1:07 AM
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I presume a portion of the condo units are going to be built as rental instead; that's easier to market (given Ottawa's context, most multi-unit residential demand is rental).

Nonetheless it would make sense to replace a good chunk of the residential with office, although we do need to make sure there is still a sizeable residential population.
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  #2050  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2018, 8:38 PM
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I hope Melnyk is jockeying for position but I'm really starting to worry about the prospects of this project moving forward.

He seemed to be hinting he wasn't thrilled that Trinity was building a large project just outside the lebreton zone-and that's his main business partner.

This guy, I really hope he doesn't go down and take the team with him
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  #2051  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
It would make a lot of sense to make LeBreton a software development hub and leave the CBD to be the government and financial hub and Kanata the hardware development hub. LeBreton Is close enough to downtown to have all the benefits the companies are looking for (and possibly even more). From the Senators' perspective it would give them access to the type of companies that are most likely to buy tickets. It would also result in more lunchtime customers for the bars and restaurants they will want to have nearby. Condos are great but they are only 1 piece of the puzzle to a successful development.
Or we could encourage economic diversity throughout the city.
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  #2052  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 2:21 PM
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Or we could encourage economic diversity throughout the city.
There are advantages of industry clusters. They help attract a pool of skilled employees to the area, making the companies more successful. That pool of skilled employees attracts other companies to setup shop. The increase in number of employers will attract skilled employees to the area since there are more employment opportunities.

The variety of employment options will also help drive up the salaries of the skilled workers as they are more likely to drawn to a competitor down the street than one across town, so raises must be higher to encourage talent to stay. Higher salaries will help drive the local economy.
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  #2053  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 3:54 PM
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This article is BS. There is absolutely no correlation between the team's performance and LeBreton Flats. Drop in attendance, possibly, but even then I would place the blame Pheonix and Anselmi's ridiculous cash grab schemes of 2017-2018.

Quote:
Gibbons: LeBreton 'game-changer' might be distraction Melnyk doesn't need

Rick Gibbons
Ottawa Sun
April 15, 2018


Maybe relocating the Ottawa Senators to LeBreton Flats isn’t such a good idea after all. The franchise did just fine for many years in Kanata with good teams and decent attendance. It’s now paying a steep price for being distracted by the lure of seemingly greener pastures downtown.

Think I’m crazy? Right now, the situation confronting the team is terrible and it could get much more so before the team ever plays a game in LeBreton Flats, which could be years away.

Prospects are sufficiently grim that Melnyk may be smart to reconsider the whole relocation strategy before he gets in too deep.

He even seemed to open the door a crack to that prospect last week during meetings with season ticket holders when he referenced the extreme complexity of the LeBreton deal and the fuzzy logic of relocating closer to public servants downtown who aren’t allowed to accept freebie tickets and seem very reluctant to buy them. He probably has a point.

Maybe it was just a negotiating ploy and Melnyk was just trying to apply a little pressure by hinting he might rethink the move. But it’s hard do dismiss such worries in light of the negative impact of the LeBreton strategy on current ticket sales and on the team’s ability to keep stars like Erik Karlsson and ice a competitive team in the near term.

Remember, nobody was putting up billboards criticizing the owner a few years ago when the team was more interested in winning hockey games than being distracted by relocation talk.

It wasn’t until four years ago that LeBreton even became a possibility and the team’s owner started talking about it as a potential “game changer.” Since then, the team has gone from a respectable 13th to 24th in league attendance.

Some of that is the consequence of alienating a Kanata-area fan base with all this relocation talk.

Go back a little further and attendance peaked during the 2007-08 season after the team went to the Stanley Cup final. That season — with the team in Kanata — the team stood third in league ticket sales. No surprise. Ticket sales have always benefitted from a strong on-ice performance the previous year. Except this year when a surprise run deep into the playoffs last post-season did absolutely nothing to goose sales. On the contrary, sales fell even further.

The wheels started to come off ticket sales in 2013 when LeBreton was being whispered as a possibility and when Melnyk first seemed to acknowledge critics’ biggest complaint when he said the rink was located in the “middle of nowhere. ’’ In doing so, the franchise tossed out the window nearly 20 years of marketing efforts aimed at convincing fans otherwise.

And attendance figures will likely only get worse in the year(s) ahead with little prospect of icing a competitive team anytime soon and with a new arena possibly years from the start of construction.

How bad is it? Terrible. Right now, the team is operating on a shoestring budget in the front office, with a small team of scouts and no Ottawa-based chief executive. Good players are said to be on the trade block and even both the team owner and GM are speculating the rebuild will take years.

While some longtime season ticket holders said they were satisfied with what they heard from Melnyk and GM Pierre Dorion during closed-door sessions last week, many others were having serious misgivings, especially those who buy partial season ticket packages as incentives for gaining access to cheaper post season tickets.

The cost of relocating to LeBreton will be terrible attendance, terrible teams and tight budgets that won’t properly fund team operations.

Maybe the rewards of leaving Kanata aren’t exactly as billed when Melnyk called LeBreton a “game-changer” for the franchise.

If so, the change will come at a punishing price — for him and for fans.

Gibbons is former publisher of the Sun. He can be heard weekdays 1-2 p.m. on 1310 NEWS
http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news...yk-doesnt-need
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  #2054  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 8:03 PM
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I mean, this is a large scale project. No one expects them to build out Lebreton fully in a year or two and have 10 condo towers up for sale. But I don't see how they couldn't start with the arena and building out 1 or 2 towers per year (split between condos, office, rentals)... Surely the Ottawa market could absorb that.
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  #2055  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:08 AM
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I mean, this is a large scale project. No one expects them to build out Lebreton fully in a year or two and have 10 condo towers up for sale. But I don't see how they couldn't start with the arena and building out 1 or 2 towers per year (split between condos, office, rentals)... Surely the Ottawa market could absorb that.
Does Melnyck have the skills and finances to develop Lebreton? Hopefully, his partners will have the necessary skillset. If not, we may still see an empty Lebreton Flats in 10 years while buildings go up all around it.
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  #2056  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 1:35 AM
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There's always the original option-
Pentagon North /s
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  #2057  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 2:08 AM
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There's always the original option-
Pentagon North /s
That will be inspiring for downtown. A high security, off-limits site. We might as well build a penitentiary on Lebreton Flats.
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  #2058  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 5:03 AM
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Does Melnyck have the skills and finances to develop Lebreton? Hopefully, his partners will have the necessary skillset. If not, we may still see an empty Lebreton Flats in 10 years while buildings go up all around it.
I am surprised nobody has commented on today's CTV News report questioning whether Melnyck will build at Lebreton. I suppose it is a rather speculative report but ........

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1374159
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  #2059  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 5:22 AM
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I am surprised nobody has commented on today's CTV News report questioning whether Melnyck will build at Lebreton.
What is there to comment on? It didn’t really say anything we haven’t discussed ad nauseam on here.
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  #2060  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 12:38 PM
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What is there to comment on? It didn’t really say anything we haven’t discussed ad nauseam on here.
Only thing I took away from it is if the Arena falls through, the NCC process will have to start all over again.

Logic being the Arena was central to the accepted proposal, and if it goes away, a full restart will be required.
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