YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Not sure if the schedule is finalised though.

For example on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays from YEG to YVR there are 3-4 nonstop flights... one departs at 10:30 and another at 11:10. On those days the 10:30 flight is showing as “Sold Out” each day.

[nname]

Hmm... it wasn't like that when I checked it last time...

Seems to me that.. basically they're blocking out the old routes:

4x YLW-YVR-YEG-YYZ
1x YVR-YEG

I guess they're not going to run 3x daily YEG-YYZ, YEG-YVR, and YEG-YXX after all

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Hmm... it wasn't like that when I checked it last time...

Seems to me that.. basically they're blocking out the old routes:

4x YLW-YVR-YEG-YYZ
1x YVR-YEG

I guess they're not going to run 3x daily YEG-YYZ, YEG-YVR, and YEG-YXX after all

Yeah... looks like their weekly frequencies by city are:

YEG 69, YVR 26, YWG 22, YYZ 21, YYC 15, YXX 14, YLW 11, YHM 8, YHZ 7, YYJ 7, YXE 4, YXS 4

So still very small operations at any of their stations.. even their largest operation at YEG is only 10 flights per day.

[YYCguys]

Surprised to see Flair Air using some of the Tier One airports (eg: yvr yyz etc) whereas I thought that lower cost airports like yhm and yxx would be used exclusively instead of in conjunction with yvr and yyz.

[trofirhen]

As an ULCC Flair charges such low fares, that I wonder ho<w they make a profit, or at least remain solvent. Are the considerably higher prices of other carriers necessary to pay all
the bills, and try to add to their profit? If Flair charges such low fares, does this represent something within the range" of normal, and are major carriers icing their cakes, or what?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

Surprised to see Flair Air using some of the Tier One airports (eg: yvr yyz etc) whereas I thought that lower cost airports like yhm and yxx would be used exclusively instead of in conjunction with yvr and yyz.

In this latest schedule change they’ve actually reduced flying from both YXX and YHM and increased from YVR and YYZ. They’ve pretty much added back most of the cities they had dropped while under the NewLeaf banner.

[trofirhen]

Pardon the break in the conversation arc, but with the possibility of YVR - GRU, due to visa free Brazilan travel or such, one often laments that YYZ is so much better placed,
and so much shorter. However, due to the curvature of the earth, in fact, the difference is less than one might think.

Haneda - YYZ - GRU is 50 miles; 77/km miles shorter than via YVR.
(YVR obiously 50 miles, 77km longer) Not a lot, but if I'm wrong please correct me.
Would an airline, any airline, possibly go for that? Is the difference still too large, or is it feasible? Any opinions welcome.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

As an ULCC Flair charges such low fares, that I wonder ho<w they make a profit, or at least remain solvent. Are the considerably higher prices of other carriers necessary to pay all
the bills, and try to add to their profit? If Flair charges such low fares, does this represent something within the range" of normal, and are major carriers icing their cakes, or what?

Flair and other ULCC charge for absolutely everything. Carryon is $30 or $90 at the gate, checked bag is $25 ahead of time or $80 at the airport, There is a fee if you have get a boarding card. Seat selection is always a charge, even during check in. The most restrictive fares have a a use it or lose it provisions (no changes, no refunds, no travel credit for not flying) unless you pay ahead for a travel insurance product.

I looked up travelling on July 4th in the morning. The difference between Flair and Air Canada was $30 once included all the upcharges on both airlines.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Cage

Flair and other ULCC charge for absolutely everything. Carryon is $30 or $90 at the gate, checked bag is $25 ahead of time or $80 at the airport, There is a fee if you have get a boarding card. Seat selection is always a charge, even during check in. The most restrictive fares have a a use it or lose it provisions (no changes, no refunds, no travel credit for not flying) unless you pay ahead for a travel insurance product.

I looked up travelling on July 4th in the morning. The difference between Flair and Air Canada was $30 once included all the upcharges on both airlines.

Ahaaa !! Thanks for the explanation. Sounds a little like some European "low-costs." Anyway, they sure seem to have you by the jugular.

[Johnny Aussie]

Flair has now updated their schedules as the old schedules that were showing as “sold out” have now been removed.

Even airlineroute.net got caught out and had included these in his tally.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...omestic-canada-expansion-from-june-2018/

The expansions at the bottom, are therefore incorrect.

[osirisboy]

Flair? I think you mean F8

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Cage

Flair and other ULCC charge for absolutely everything. Carryon is $30 or $90 at the gate, checked bag is $25 ahead of time or $80 at the airport.

If this is accurate (I'm not questioning you Cage BTW) then its a reversal of what the other airlines are doing and carry on will actually cost more than checked bags. Great to see in my opinion as it may help cure the plague of carry on luggage and all the problems that comes with carry on that infects the other carriers.

Two thoughts come to mind:
1. they feel people prefer carry on to checking their bags so there is an opportunity to profit from this.
2. they are trying to discourage carry on as it slows boarding and disembarking times thus increasing turn around times for the aircraft.

[SpongeG]

I flew Allegient once out of Bellingham, we paid for early boarding, I think carry on was free, anyway by the time the people who didn't pay for early boarding there was almost no overhead bin available, people had to get some of their bags stuffed into that little closet they have on the plane or put the bags at the opposite end of the plane.

And I fly AC mostly and you always see people trying to stuff their huge carryons into the small bins, often they will make an announcement that the flight is full and they will put your carry on in the cargo which many people take advantage of which is nice.

[CareerShow]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...lat-seats-on-some-north-american-routes/

I do enjoy news articles regarding aviation in general, the level of ignorance is always fairly substantial. Little do most people know, there has been daily lie flat flights from YYZ to SFO and LAX for years, and between 5-10 widebody flights a day between YVR and YYZ for years.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by lubicon

If this is accurate (I'm not questioning you Cage BTW) then its a reversal of what the other airlines are doing and carry on will actually cost more than checked bags. Great to see in my opinion as it may help cure the plague of carry on luggage and all the problems that comes with carry on that infects the other carriers.

Two thoughts come to mind:
1. they feel people prefer carry on to checking their bags so there is an opportunity to profit from this.
2. they are trying to discourage carry on as it slows boarding and disembarking times thus increasing turn around times for the aircraft.

It's mostly the 2nd reason. ULCCs run on razor-thin margins and rely on quick turn-around times. One of the way they do this is ensuring people board quickly and efficiently. They make money if they're in the air. Same principle of cruise ships. Also, ensuring people board early means they're a captive audience for longer. As you need to check in early for a flight ( or pay a fee ) you're faced with buying expensive airport food ( in most airports, though YVR is an exception ) or buying reasonably priced (but marked up) food while you're on the plane.

Every hour on the ground is also another hour they're paying airports/staff/crew.

[Lancaster]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...lat-seats-on-some-north-american-routes/

I do enjoy news articles regarding aviation in general, the level of ignorance is always fairly substantial. Little do most people know, there has been daily lie flat flights from YYZ to SFO and LAX for years, and between 5-10 widebody flights a day between YVR and YYZ for years.

Reading the press release it looks like this is more to do with offering an "overnight" premium service.

I openly wonder if AC will ever entertain putting lie-flat seats on narrow body aircraft. Something like B6 (JetBlue) has with Mint.

[casper]

Originally Posted by lubicon

If this is accurate (I'm not questioning you Cage BTW) then its a reversal of what the other airlines are doing and carry on will actually cost more than checked bags. Great to see in my opinion as it may help cure the plague of carry on luggage and all the problems that comes with carry on that infects the other carriers.

Two thoughts come to mind:
1. they feel people prefer carry on to checking their bags so there is an opportunity to profit from this.
2. they are trying to discourage carry on as it slows boarding and disembarking times thus increasing turn around times for the aircraft.

The other factor is they are using older aircraft that were built before the modern generation of carry on suitcases were invented. They simply do not have the space.

AC and WS are getting newer aircraft that support for in cabin baggage.

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Acey

"The airline has offered such seats before on Los Angeles and San Francisco flights, but not consistently" seems to sufficiently address your concern.

Was more with regard to the YYZ flights.......but yes, this article was actually decently well informed.

[zahav]

I messaged YVR today (as I did last month), and they messaged me back and just posted the February stats after I asked :p Definitely worth the wait, amazing results, better than expected I think!

Overall up 11%. Domestic up 6.9%, Transborder up 11%, Asia Pacific up 18.6%, Europe up 4.6% (oddly, scheduled up 11.3% and charter down to 0, must be the way they used to record Transat!), and Misc. up 30.1%. Overall international up 14.8% incl. transborder, and up 18.6% international only. Highest overall traffic growth of the Canadian airports reporting February so far, in all categories nonetheless! That expansion can't come soon enough! With the healthy domestic growth, and Flair expanding a lot this summer, they should consider the old B pier upgrade. WS uses all of the new AB gates from the last expansion, and they still spillover into the old section (the new hourly YYC flights won't help this situation). YVR should be planning on that reno in tandem with international expansion, the old B pier is the last part of the airport that is still original, and is pretty awful. For the few odd jet flights that used it (and of course good old CMA) it was OK, but i feel like it will be used more and more now with Flair.

Even the 'recently' (2009) expanded C Pier is probably reaching capacity soon. AC runs 777 and 787s on some of those Toronto legs, and the holdrooms are packed!

PS, I wonder when noflyzone will chime in and downplay the traffic results and make excuses as to why the numbers are artificially high

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/facts-and-stats

[nname]

Originally Posted by zahav

YVR should be planning on that reno in tandem with international expansion, the old B pier is the last part of the airport that is still original, and is pretty awful. For the few odd jet flights that used it (and of course good old CMA) it was OK, but i feel like it will be used more and more now with Flair.

I think B27 now is almost exclusively used by Flair except one early morning WS flight at 6am.

The new schedule is also structured in such way that the airline will only need 1 gate at the airport at any time, but they will need the gate for the entire day except for the 6am departure slot (since no RON at YVR - they all have to come from either YEG or YYC via YLW in the morning and return at night)

I guess they will also avoid filling fuel at YVR as it is cheaper to do so in AB?


A couple of days ago when I was bored I was trying to figure out their plane rotation:

Daily YYZ-YEG-YVR-YEG-YYZ
Daily YEG-YYZ-YHZ-YYZ-YEG
Daily YHM-YWG-YEG-YYJ-YEG-YWG-YHM
Daily YEG-YXX-YEG-YLW-YEG-YXX-YEG
x6 YEG-YVR-YYC-YWG-YYC-YVR-YEG
1 YEG-YVR-YWG-YVR-YYC
37 YYC-YLW-YVR-YXS-YEG-YXE-YEG
46 YEG-YXE-YEG-YXS-YVR-YLW-YYC
5 YYC-YVR-YWG-YVR-YEG