[Moncton] Retail Thread

[habs33]

The rumors that I heard is #1 below is what's coming.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Thanks for your input. Don't be shy about contributing to the forum.

The Canadian Tire rumour has been circulating for a few months (amongst other rumours). It's possible, but the most likely rumour at present is a call centre for TD Bank. TD had been waiting on renovations to MHS, but these are taking longer than expected to begin. I don't know if this is to be considered a permanent solution, or just a temporary one until MHS becomes available. In either event, using the space for a call centre would be most unfortunate.

Current possibilities for the old Sears space include (but are not limited to):

1) - TD Insurance customer contact centre (temporary or permanent) - most likely
2) - Canadian Tire (possible, but not the best fit for CF since they want Champlain to be a fashion mall)
3) - Simons (everyone's preferred choice, and remotely possible if they also set up in the old Sears space at Halifax Shopping Centre as well).
4) - Hudson's Bay Company (also a good fit for CF, but financial circumstances in the HBC chain make this unlikely at present)
5) - subdividing the space for other retailers/services like Rec Room, Indigo etc (probably the best long term option for CF).

My own opinion is that CF will let TD have the space for it's contact centre in the short term while they come up with a sustainable long term plan for the space.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

Canadian Tire is not a tenant seen at CF properties, I very highly doubt that it is coming to Champlain Place. TD call center as a temp is possible until they find a permanent location and for CF to find a real tenant for the space.

This seems more likely. I don’t imagine that they would want to have a call centre in their mall for more than 18 months.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

Canadian Tire is not a tenant seen at CF properties, I very highly doubt that it is coming to Champlain Place. TD call center as a temp is possible until they find a permanent location and for CF to find a real tenant for the space.

I will state that the Rumor about Canadian Tire did have some substance to it, as the Owner/Operator of the Dieppe Location was indeed looking for a Larger space, and as it looked closer, and closer like the Sears was going to close its store may, or may not have made a Bid to buy the old Sears location from CF Champlain. If they did make an offer my guess is less on the CF not having any Canadian Tire locations as tenants, and more they wanted to be a fashion mall, and din't think any of the potential tenants would be having money problems.

[MonctonRad]

Looking more and more likely that Toys "R" Us is safe......

Toy company bids $890 million for Toys ‘R’ Us stores in Canada and the United States
http://business.financialpost.com/news/r...u-s-canada-stores-from-mga-entertainment

Toy company MGA Entertainment said on Friday it put in an US$890 million bid for Toys ‘R’ Us stores in the U.S. and Canada.

Billionaire Isaac Larian, who heads MGA Entertainment, put in a bid of US$675 million for stores in the United States and US$215 million for stores in Canada, MGA said in a statement.

The funds to purchase the stores will come from Larian’s own coffers, additional investors and bank financing, the privately held toy and entertainment company said.

[C_Boy]

Originally Posted by Scarface

I will state that the Rumor about Canadian Tire did have some substance to it, as the Owner/Operator of the Dieppe Location was indeed looking for a Larger space, and as it looked closer, and closer like the Sears was going to close its store may, or may not have made a Bid to buy the old Sears location from CF Champlain. If they did make an offer my guess is less on the CF not having any Canadian Tire locations as tenants, and more they wanted to be a fashion mall, and din't think any of the potential tenants would be having money problems.

Does Bayers Lake still have a Canadian Tire / Marks combo? I haven't been that way in years but if they do...maybe they are considering doing a combo like that at CF Champlain in the Sears location with the Marks close to the entrance of the Mall and also have it's own exterior access. Would just have to move from across the street.

[Taeolas]

There's still a joint Marks/CT store in Fredericton on the North Side.

With Champlain Place targetted as a fashion mall, I dont see Canadian Tire really fitting in there. But if Cadillac Fairview is looking to sell it off, then maybe the new owners like Primarius wouldn't mind it. As long as Walmart is there, Champlain Place won't ever really become a true Fashion mall I don't think. (Then again, Bayshore Mall in Ottawa has a Walmart and it feels on a similar mall level as Champlain Place has).

What might be interesting is if Canadian Tire moves over, maybe they'll move Sports Check over, to give it a more obvious location and to keep the CT brands together.

[MonctonRad]

CF wants Champlain to be a fashion mall. A mall whose two main anchors are Canadian Tire and WalMart will never be a fashion mall. I sincerely doubt that Canadian Tire will be taking over Sears.

A temporary call centre (especially a higher class one like TD Insurance) is a much more acceptable temporary alternative until CF can organize a major redevelopment in 3-5 years time. I'm almost certain this is the way they're going to go........

[MonctonRad]

found this on the Cordova Realty Facebook page:


MAPLETON CROSSING Master Plan - Phase 2


Annotations are my own

Unfortunately this is a low res image, but for bearings, this is on the SE corner of the Mapleton/TCH interchange, extending behind Day & Ross, and connecting further south to LJR Blvd, across from the proposed new Shannex anglophone nursing home project. The plan is interesting as it shows the trajectory of LJR beyond the second roundabout, past the Shannex development. The second roundabout is proposed as a three point roundabout, and it is at this point that LJR crosses the NB Power ROW and dives into the heart of the Vision Lands.

Cordova is obviously stinging from the loss of Cabela's. The comment accompanying this proposed site plan is:

You win some, you lose some. Starting over with a blank canvas may lead to even better opportunities. We are open to suggestions. #Monctonvisionlands #willgetdevelopedsomeday

Not only is Cordova stinging from the loss of Cabela's, I imagine they suffered a defeat with the loss of Costco to Granite Drive. They don't say so on this development proposal, but the big box store that they have fleshed out in the back of the development looks an awful lot to me like Costco. I wonder if this was the actual "Day & Ross" Costco proposal that everyone was gossiping about????

I don't know where they would find all the retail to fill this massive site, but you have to give them at least an "A" for effort............

[MonctonRad]

Aveda at CF Champlain is closing on April 28th.
https://www.facebook.com/AvedaChamplainP...Yh6Sv716bgX-7s&fref=nf&hc_location=group

[Ammn_guy]

That definitely looks like costco.. would have been a much better location IMHO .. the more I drive thru elmwood area every day i realize the traffic mess that area is going to be once people start cutting through it to get to costco(from the mall, dieppe downtown). This will cost the city millions in street upgrades. The city/PAC need to stop rubber stamping everything. The fragmentation of city retail continues.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

found this on the Cordova Realty Facebook page:


Unfortunately this is a low res image, but for bearings, this is on the SE corner of the Mapleton/TCH interchange, extending behind Day & Ross, and connecting further south to LJR Blvd, across from the proposed new Shannex anglophone nursing home project. The plan is interesting as it shows the trajectory of LJR beyond the second roundabout, past the Shannex development. The second roundabout is proposed as a three point roundabout, and it is at this point that LJR crosses the NB Power ROW and dives into the heart of the Vision Lands.

Cordova is obviously stinging from the loss of Cabela's. The comment accompanying this proposed site plan is:



Not only is Cordova stinging from the loss of Cabela's, I imagine they suffered a defeat with the loss of Costco to Granite Drive. They don't say so on this development proposal, but the big box store that they have fleshed out in the back of the development looks an awful lot to me like Costco. I wonder if this was the actual "Day & Ross" Costco proposal that everyone was gossiping about????

I don't know where they would find all the retail to fill this massive site, but you have to give them at least an "A" for effort............

[Hogie75]

Originally Posted by Ammn_guy

That definitely looks like costco.. would have been a much better location IMHO .. the more I drive thru elmwood area every day i realize the traffic mess that area is going to be once people start cutting through it to get to costco(from the mall, dieppe downtown). This will cost the city millions in street upgrades. The city/PAC need to stop rubber stamping everything. The fragmentation of city retail continues.

Costco is definitely going off elmwood drive, the off ramps from the tch are pretty good now as well as elmwood going towards the new development. Also they will be building off ramps from maclaughlin to help. They did a lot of work already to help with this last year.

[L'homard]

To be clear, there are no plans yet to build off ramps at McLaughlin.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by L'homard

To be clear, there are no plans yet to build off ramps at McLaughlin.

Yet...........

Costco on Granite Drive will lead to considerable traffic congestion on Elmwood, particularly northbound just north of the TCH westbound on ramp. The turning lane they have installed there for Granite Drive is too short IMHO, and left turning traffic onto Granite will chronically back up and clog the northbound though lanes on Elmwood. This will not improve until a second point of access to Granite off the TCH is created at McLaughlin.

Seeing the Cordova plan for Costco behind Day & Ross, I am disappointed that the city allowed Granite Drive to be chosen instead. I think that the Day & Ross site would have been much easier to deal with in terms of infrastructure requirements for the store, and would have been more central to more of the population than the Granite Drive location. It would also have retained the integrity of the "big box" district on Mapleton without creating the fragmentation that we are currently seeing.

It isn't like Costco was a new to market retailer looking to set up shop. Costco wasn't going to pick up it's marbles and stalk off if the city had given them a hard time. Moncton is one of their best markets in Canada. The city should have insisted that if they were going to relocate, that the relocation should be somewhere else in the Mapleton Road district - not in a different area of the city creating a whole new set of headaches for the city engineering department........

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Yet...........

Costco on Granite Drive will lead to considerable traffic congestion on Elmwood, particularly northbound just north of the TCH westbound on ramp. The turning lane they have installed there for Granite Drive is too short IMHO, and left turning traffic onto Granite will chronically back up and clog the northbound though lanes on Elmwood. This will not improve until a second point of access to Granite off the TCH is created at McLaughlin.

Seeing the Cordova plan for Costco behind Day & Ross, I am disappointed that the city allowed Granite Drive to be chosen instead. I think that the Day & Ross site would have been much easier to deal with in terms of infrastructure requirements for the store, and would have been more central to more of the population than the Granite Drive location. It would also have retained the integrity of the "big box" district on Mapleton without creating the fragmentation that we are currently seeing.

It isn't like Costco was a new to market retailer looking to set up shop. Costco wasn't going to pick up it's marbles and stalk off if the city had given them a hard time. Moncton is one of their best markets in Canada. The city should have insisted that if they were going to relocate, that the relocation should be somewhere else in the Mapleton Road district - not in a different area of the city creating a whole new set of headaches for the city engineering department........

It looks like the City was asking Cordova to build some major infra-structure: two boulevards, several traffic circles, etc. Has anyone seen a site plan or traffic study for Granite Development with anything other than a Costco? Was not the original reason the city expanded the municipal boundary to the other side of the highway to accommodate the developer who simply wanted to build a Home Hardware? Where is the Home Hardware on any plans submitted to the City? Was the traffic study and infra-structure plan completed on anything more than the Costco? Who is going to be on the hook to pay for the infra-structure needed beyond the development of the Costco? The tax payer! Rumour also has it that Costco will not permit any more development inside Granite Development until more infra-structure is added? Who will be paying for that?

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Ifyoubuildit

It looks like the City was asking Cordova to build some major infra-structure: two boulevards, several traffic circles, etc. Has anyone seen a site plan or traffic study for Granite Development with anything other than a Costco? Was not the original reason the city expanded the municipal boundary to the other side of the highway to accommodate the developer who simply wanted to build a Home Hardware? Where is the Home Hardware on any plans submitted to the City? Was the traffic study and infra-structure plan completed on anything more than the Costco? Who is going to be on the hook to pay for the infra-structure needed beyond the development of the Costco? The tax payer! Rumour also has it that Costco will not permit any more development inside Granite Development until more infra-structure is added? Who will be paying for that?

There was actually plans on there Facebook page. I do beleive MonctonRad had shared this info previously but the plan showed what Looked to be Costcowith a gas bar, and at least one other building.

There where also other preliminary plans shared that seem to Show Mapleton from the On/Off Ramps from Wheeler to Highway 2 Being developed in peices.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ifyoubuildit

It looks like the City was asking Cordova to build some major infra-structure: two boulevards, several traffic circles, etc. Has anyone seen a site plan or traffic study for Granite Development with anything other than a Costco? Was not the original reason the city expanded the municipal boundary to the other side of the highway to accommodate the developer who simply wanted to build a Home Hardware? Where is the Home Hardware on any plans submitted to the City? Was the traffic study and infra-structure plan completed on anything more than the Costco? Who is going to be on the hook to pay for the infra-structure needed beyond the development of the Costco? The tax payer! Rumour also has it that Costco will not permit any more development inside Granite Development until more infra-structure is added? Who will be paying for that?

Not all of the infrastructure shown on the Cordova planning document would have been Cordova's responsibility. In particular, anything to do with LJR Blvd (including those two roundabouts) would have been the city's responsibility (although I think they are hoping for some contribution from Shannex for the roundabout closest to the Mapleton Centre).

Cordova would have been responsible for the principle entry road to Costco (Lady Ada by 585 Mapleton, extending past the Four Points Hotel). The cross connectors between Lady Ada and LJR also likely would have been the responsibility of the developer (but would be a justifiable expense as this would open oodles of land for development).

All this is water under the bridge however. This part of the "Vision Lands" will likely lie fallow now for at least another decade, with development prospects at Granite Drive hobbled by poor access until the province agrees to a McLaughlin Road/TCH interchange. This will likely take at least another decade too. Overall, this is a pretty bad outcome...........

After all, which of these two possibilities creates more opportunity for the city, this:



or this:



Personally, I think the Mapleton Road/Day & Ross site blows Granite Drive out of the water. Nothing we can do about it now though........

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not all of the infrastructure shown on the Cordova planning document would have been Cordova's responsibility. In particular, anything to do with LJR Blvd (including those two roundabouts) would have been the city's responsibility (although I think they are hoping for some contribution from Shannex for the roundabout closest to the Mapleton Centre).

Cordova would have been responsible for the principle entry road to Costco (Lady Ada by 585 Mapleton, extending past the Four Points Hotel). The cross connectors between Lady Ada and LJR also likely would have been the responsibility of the developer (but would be a justifiable expense as this would open oodles of land for development).

All this is water under the bridge however. This part of the "Vision Lands" will likely lie fallow now for at least another decade, with development prospects at Granite Drive hobbled by poor access until the province agrees to a McLaughlin Road/TCH interchange. This will likely take at least another decade too. Overall, this is a pretty bad outcome...........

After all, which of these two possibilities creates more opportunity for the city, this:



or this:



Personally, I think the Mapleton Road/Day & Ross site blows Granite Drive out of the water. Nothing we can do about it now though........

I know from a good source Cordova actually would have had to build the bridge (1.5mil) across Halls Creek and built half of LJR Blvd. Their total infra-structure plan was in the 8-9mil ballpark from the engineer who told me, which they were on the hook to build as per City Planning requirements. The City only invests in the “over sized” component, thus 2 out of the 4 lands of LJR Blvd. So even more of a failure on the Cities behalf in the original extension of the municipal boundary across the highway at Elmwood. Cordova’s infra-structure investment would have seriously opened up the Vision Lands and created thousands of jobs, retail tourism and prevented urban sprawl! Now the entire Trinity/Mapleton retail district will suffer with jobs and major tax dollars loss. This is very poor planning by the City. It also seems City engineers did not nearly hold the Granite Development to the same test of future infra-structure design to support the growth of their development as they did with the Cordova project.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ifyoubuildit

I know from a good source Cordova actually would have had to build the bridge (1.5mil) across Halls Creek and built half of LJR Blvd. Their total infra-structure plan was in the 8-9mil ballpark from the engineer who told me, which they were on the hook to build as per City Planning requirements. The City only invests in the “over sized” component, thus 2 out of the 4 lands of LJR Blvd. So even more of a failure on the Cities behalf in the original extension of the municipal boundary across the highway at Elmwood. Cordova’s infra-structure investment would have seriously opened up the Vision Lands and created thousands of jobs, retail tourism and prevented urban sprawl! Now the entire Trinity/Mapleton retail district will suffer with jobs and major tax dollars loss. This is very poor planning by the City. It also seems City engineers did not nearly hold the Granite Development to the same test of future infra-structure design to support the growth of their development as they did with the Cordova project.

Wow......

[Ammn_guy]

It was definitely unbalanced treatment. the whole Mapleton area is designed to handle the traffic that the Cordova development would have brought.

At the very least they should have forced the developer to pay to upgrade McLaughlin from the top of the hill to granite drive.. as well as the stream crossing, its an uncurbed country road which has flood closures at least twice a year. The city is obviously going to have to rebuild it.. and its 10ft from granite drive.

Not to mention the road work they are doing right now on granite is totally polluting the brook with heavy silt.

Originally Posted by Ifyoubuildit

I know from a good source Cordova actually would have had to build the bridge (1.5mil) across Halls Creek and built half of LJR Blvd. Their total infra-structure plan was in the 8-9mil ballpark from the engineer who told me, which they were on the hook to build as per City Planning requirements. The City only invests in the “over sized” component, thus 2 out of the 4 lands of LJR Blvd. So even more of a failure on the Cities behalf in the original extension of the municipal boundary across the highway at Elmwood. Cordova’s infra-structure investment would have seriously opened up the Vision Lands and created thousands of jobs, retail tourism and prevented urban sprawl! Now the entire Trinity/Mapleton retail district will suffer with jobs and major tax dollars loss. This is very poor planning by the City. It also seems City engineers did not nearly hold the Granite Development to the same test of future infra-structure design to support the growth of their development as they did with the Cordova project.

[MonctonRad]

Well, the fate of the old Sears location at Champlain Place is now known - new business and finance operations centres for TD Bank - over 1,000 jobs for the city.

This is such a mega announcement that I can't imagine that this is a temporary thing until a more permanent space downtown or at MHS opens up. I think the Sears retail space has been lost for good.........