[St. John's] Transport development (Highways, Airport, and Public Transit)

[thevan]

Originally Posted by jjavman

I always wonder about this. And you don't have to go all the way back to the Ancients - take a look at any of the mid-20th century Vintage St. John's photos and there's not a pothole in sight!

No, I suspect it to be some combination of significantly increased traffic, trucks, etc, and a poor choice of third-party contractors (this used to be done in-house).

[jjavman]

http://vocm.com/news/update-coming-on-fixed-link-between-labrador-northern-peninsula/

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by jjavman

http://vocm.com/news/update-coming-on-fixed-link-between-labrador-northern-peninsula/

Let me guess. It's too expensive, we can't afford to do it right now....$750,000 wasted money

[goodgrowth]

Basically the the cheapest option is a single bore rail tunnel that would cost $1.675 Billion and take 15 years!? to complete.

https://twitter.com/TRobertst/status/984083684641968128

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Basically the the cheapest option is a single bore rail tunnel that would cost $1.675 Billion and take 15 years!? to complete.

https://twitter.com/TRobertst/status/984083684641968128

What's the point of even considering a rail tunnel?

[Marty_Mcfly]

What's the point of considering any tunnel?

[goodgrowth]

Honestly I think the economics of building this are dubious at best. It would only benefit people travelling back and forth to Labrador which isn't nearly enough to justify a multi-billion dollar tunnel. But if you are going to do it at least put a road in there so there is actually a noticeable convenience over the ferry.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Honestly I think the economics of building this are dubious at best. It would only benefit people travelling back and forth to Labrador which isn't nearly enough to justify a multi-billion dollar tunnel. But if you are going to do it at least put a road in there so there is actually a noticeable convenience over the ferry.

The thing is though, that road that would make this connection convenient for everyone traveling to the island needs to be completed in Quebec. Why would they build 100's of km of road to service us, and then the hand full of Quebec residents that live in that area. There's so little economic advantage of doing this for Quebec that it's a no brainer for them.

So yeah like you said, a multi-billion dollar tunnel to service 15,000 people? Nah. We're already hemorrhaging money as it is thanks to another mistake in Labrador.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

The thing is though, that road that would make this connection convenient for everyone traveling to the island needs to be completed in Quebec. Why would they build 100's of km of road to service us, and then the hand full of Quebec residents that live in that area. There's so little economic advantage of doing this for Quebec that it's a no brainer for them.

Well that's a whole other issue. I was just talking about people driving to and from Labrador itself. But even if Quebec decided to put the north shore highway there to get to the rest of Quebec/mainland Canada (aka civilization) is it really going to be that much better than the existing route? Are people/tourists from Canada and the States going to travel on a Quebec highway through nowhere or go through The Maritimes and use the ferry? My guess is the latter. Same with people from St. John's/most of island. Are you going to us drive up Northern Peninsula then through barely populated part of Quebec or go through The Maritimes? I think the latter.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Well that's a whole other issue. I was just talking about people driving to and from Labrador itself. But even if Quebec decided to put the north shore highway there to get to the rest of Quebec/mainland Canada (aka civilization) is it really going to be that much better than the existing route? Are people/tourists from Canada and the States going to travel on a Quebec highway through nowhere or go through The Maritimes and use the ferry? My guess is the latter. Same with people from St. John's/most of island. Are you going to us drive up Northern Peninsula then through barely populated part of Quebec or go through The Maritimes? I think the latter.

From a tourist point of view, if you're looking to site see along the way, the ferry is a no brainer. If you're just looking to get on and off the island it depends I guess.

It's 1322 km (15.5 hour) drive from Montreal to Kegashka, QC, which is the furthest the coastal highway goes in Quebec. There's a straight-line distance of 270 km between Kegashka and the next stretch of road at Vieux-Fort, QC. The distance between Vieux-Fort and Point Amour is 96km (1.5 hours). So we're talking about a 20 hour drive to the tunnel. It's then a 10 hour drive to St. John's, being a total time of appx 30 hours to get from Montreal to St. John's.

Currently as it stands with highway infrastructure in place, it takes 2350 km (31 hours) to get from Montreal to Point Amour, and then 10 hours to St. John's for 41 hours total.

Compare that to the Maritime route: 1451 km (14.5 hours) from Montreal to North Sydney, a 6'ish hour ferry ride to Port Aux Basque, and then a 10 hour drive to St. John's for a total time of 30.5 hours.

Ultimately truckers who dont want to be bothered by the ferry schedule would prefer the Labrador route if the highway were completed, but I would personally rather get out of the car and stretch my legs on a boat instead of driving through more wilderness.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

From a tourist point of view, if you're looking to site see along the way, the ferry is a no brainer. If you're just looking to get on and off the island it depends I guess.

It's 1322 km (15.5 hour) drive from Montreal to Kegashka, QC, which is the furthest the coastal highway goes in Quebec. There's a straight-line distance of 270 km between Kegashka and the next stretch of road at Vieux-Fort, QC. The distance between Vieux-Fort and Point Amour is 96km (1.5 hours). So we're talking about a 20 hour drive to the tunnel. It's then a 10 hour drive to St. John's, being a total time of appx 30 hours to get from Montreal to St. John's.

Currently as it stands with highway infrastructure in place, it takes 2350 km (31 hours) to get from Montreal to Point Amour, and then 10 hours to St. John's for 41 hours total.

Compare that to the Maritime route: 1451 km (14.5 hours) from Montreal to North Sydney, a 6'ish hour ferry ride to Port Aux Basque, and then a 10 hour drive to St. John's for a total time of 30.5 hours.

Ultimately truckers who dont want to be bothered by the ferry schedule would prefer the Labrador route if the highway were completed, but I would personally rather get out of the car and stretch my legs on a boat instead of driving through more wilderness.

Yeah I think people are entertaining this because they like the idea and it's technically possible but are ultimately being ignorant of the location.

I think if it was the case that Newfoundland and Nova Scotia's coasts were only 16KM apart this would be a different story and it would make a hell of a lot more sense .

[Marty_Mcfly]

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Well that's a whole other issue. I was just talking about people driving to and from Labrador itself. But even if Quebec decided to put the north shore highway there to get to the rest of Quebec/mainland Canada (aka civilization) is it really going to be that much better than the existing route? Are people/tourists from Canada and the States going to travel on a Quebec highway through nowhere or go through The Maritimes and use the ferry? My guess is the latter. Same with people from St. John's/most of island. Are you going to us drive up Northern Peninsula then through barely populated part of Quebec or go through The Maritimes? I think the latter.

If?

Quebec has a quarter-billion worth of 138 extension projects budgetted for this fiscal year. The North Shore Highway will be completed long before any tunnel ever is.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If?

Quebec has a quarter-billion worth of 138 extension projects budgetted for this fiscal year. The North Shore Highway will be completed long before any tunnel ever is.

Quebec also receives $11.081 billion in equalization from the feds.. NL gets $0.

Ron.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Quebec also receives $11.081 billion in equalization from the feds.. NL gets $0.

Ron.

NL has a much higher own-source revenue per capita than Quebec, too.

NL's budget problem isn't revenue. It's the legacy of insane growth in public-sector spending under the supposedly "Conservatives" of Danny Williams.

[rthomasd]

Looks like they are getting ready to place concrete beams for the Topsail Rd Overpass for TGH.

Signs say to expect a 3-day closure of Topsail Road soon. There's no easy detour for that part of Topsail Rd - up Burgeo/Canada Dr then Blackmarsh Rd and down Brookfield Rd and all the way to Commonwealth then through Mt. Pearl.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by rthomasd

Looks like they are getting ready to place concrete beams for the Topsail Rd Overpass for TGH.

Signs say to expect a 3-day closure of Topsail Road soon. There's no easy detour for that part of Topsail Rd - up Burgeo/Canada Dr then Blackmarsh Rd and down Brookfield Rd and all the way to Commonwealth then through Mt. Pearl.

Well shit. If they are putting the beams up in mid-April then this thing may indeed be ready by the end of the year.

[cdotr]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Well shit. If they are putting the beams up in mid-April then this thing may indeed be ready by the end of the year.

HA HA HA! Don't bet on it... still a tonne of work to busy them with for the next three to four months. I don't expect to see this completed for another ten years.

[cdotr]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Yeah I think people are entertaining this because they like the idea and it's technically possible but are ultimately being ignorant of the location.

I think if it was the case that Newfoundland and Nova Scotia's coasts were only 16KM apart this would be a different story and it would make a hell of a lot more sense .

Why not go full on crazy and put in a tunnel for a Hyperloop that could carry vehicles between North Sydney and Port Aux Basques or something like the skates that carry cars that Elon Musk's Boring Company are taking about using in LA https://www.boringcompany.com. Something that would be an attraction in and of itself.

I don't think the route they're talking about for the fixed link would be long enough to get up the proper speeds for a Hyperloop, that's why I suggest the current ferry route. That's around 178 KM and the Hyperloop can do 200 Kph, so in less than an hour an you're here, 520 KM to Argentia, so a little over 2 hours and you could be in Argentia.

If it was something super crazy that was almost an attraction onto itself, then maybe it would attract people just to try and it and say that they were on a Hyperloop or whatever.



Crazy talk I know.

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Well shit. If they are putting the beams up in mid-April then this thing may indeed be ready by the end of the year.

Ready for what?

That overpass will get you nowhere until the final leg to Robert Howlett is finished.

All the interchange for Topsail Rd. Northbound is on the North side of the overpass.