Great Canadian Skyline Thread II

[TownGuy]

Toronto has to have the most underappreciated waterfront in Canada. A lot of that has to do with the central waterfront which has just started to come into its own.

Relatively unknown Tommy Thompson Park is a special place just east of the central waterfront

[itom 987]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I can't see any scenario where Vancouver does not have the best waterfront in Canada.

I would go so far as to say that the Seawall might be the greatest asset Vancouver has - which is saying a lot.

No history? There are at least three unique historical features along the Seawall. The first is Stanley Park, a great example of late 19th century natural preservation efforts. The second is the pre-war bathing facilities at English Bay, and, finally, and more recently, there is the great 1970s-era social utopianism experiment around Granville Island with its co-ops and mixed income townhomes. And then there are leftovers from the Olympics, Expo, etc.

Victoria also has an incredible waterfront.

[GeneralLea]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

Toronto has to have the most underappreciated waterfront in Canada. A lot of that has to do with the central waterfront which has just started to come into its own.

Relatively unknown Tommy Thompson Park is a special place just east of the central waterfront

It's a bit unsurprising that places like Tommy Thompson Park (Or Leslie Spit according to many Torontonians) aren't really as known about or busy. The location is a bit far for some.....even though it's just a streetcar ride and a bike ride or walk along the park. (Though the park is about 5-6 km long). Still....I'd consider it one of the best places in the city for a great experience close to the lake, a natural and peaceful venture into many wildlife-friendly areas, and to appreciate the skyline and relation between the city and nature.

[michael_d40]

Picture of Saint John, NB I took this evening.

[Coldrsx]

@YEGhugo

[Monolith]

Granville Bridge Views 🏢🌈 Vancouver, BC by SeaSide Signs ~ Vancouver, Canada, on Flickr


Gregoz #gregozphotos night shots of Vancouver by Gregoz Gawronski, on Flickr

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yep. They have a different feel and it is hard for me to pick which one I like more.

I didn't say Vancouver's waterfront is without history. But to put it into context, the oldest waterfront buildings in Halifax are large masonry warehouses built by privateers in the 1700's and early 1800's. The pier structures (many granite) and boardwalk themselves are also historic and built in a distinct style. I'm not sure if Vancouver has wooden boardwalk sections.

Halifax also has a lot more waterfront areas than just downtown. There is Point Pleasant Park and then there is the Northwest Arm seawall and Fleming Park and memorial tower. Stanley Park is certainly the more impressive natural park but then again Point Pleasant has things like a martello tower from 1796, the first one in North America. The Dingle (memorial tower) is really cool and I'm not sure anything quite like it exists elsewhere in Canada. It has a public observation deck and is packed with monuments donated from around the British empire when it was built circa 1900 (in Vancouver it would be considered quite old).

Vancouver's ferries are not as nice (no sitting outside) and it doesn't have any harbour islands, much less harbour islands with old forts on them to explore.

I think the naval facilities in Halifax are also interesting, even though they aren't directly connected to a seawall. And the mix of ship traffic in Halifax tends to be more diverse and interesting, and more culturally connected to the city. People there tend to be interested in visiting military ships or tall ships and there are famous local ships like the Bluenose II.

I also think the WDCL does a better job in Halifax of adding interesting temporary uses to stretches of the waterfront. They have little booths and shipping containers that they move around that are filled with seasonal businesses, and the parking lots are often used as event spaces. Vancouver has some of this too but not as much.

Vancouver's maritime museum is actually the less visited and much less interesting of the two, and Vancouver has no Pier 21 equivalent. Or possibly any publicly-accessible former port facilities like that.

That's a thorough run down. The scenery along Vancouver's waterfront is more spectacular due to the mountains but the Halifax waterfront has a lot going for it too. It's multi functional, organic, and feels part of the city rather than something designed specifically for tourism.

The majesty is undeniable when walking along Stanley Park's seawall but I'm split as to which one I prefer. For nature, Vancouver hands down. For vibrancy, Halifax hands down. There's just a lot going on down there. Besides what you mentioned there's massive cruise ships docked down near Pier 21 and the East Coast navy to the north.

[zoomer]

/\ How do you define ‘vibrancy’? I can’t think of any measure where the Halifax waterfront is more vibrant than Vancouver if for no other reason than the massive population difference. Unless by vibrancy you mean diversity, and even then I’d be curious to see what that looks like beyond anecdotal accounts.

I can understand just liking one more than the other; Halifax has that old Eastern seaboard port feeling... gritty, more industrial, better places to dump a cement shoe wearing body (having just stabbed the guy in the alley behind the marine vessel repair building) on a misty fall evening, followed up by having a good meal at that Italian tavern that’s been there for 90 years - still with the red and white checked plastic table cloths. House wine is $3 a glass - the owner makes it himself in the basement of his home. It’s not very good, but after two glasses it doesn’t really matter. You’re just trying to unwind and numb the pain of your probably fractured left wrist picked up in the struggle just before the successful stabbing. And to think it was all over a dumb argument with that west coast tourist over who had the better waterfront.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by zoomer

I can’t think of any measure where the Halifax waterfront is more vibrant than Vancouver if for no other reason than the massive population difference.

Could we have the same conversation, but replace Vancouver with LA and Halifax with Vancouver? LA is much larger, its waterfront is much more expansive, it is more famous, and it is full of people who have never been to Vancouver but will tell you they know it is inferior (probably very nice but let's be real here!). I think Vancouver has a much better waterfront than LA and is a nicer city overall.

(Would it even occur to Vancouverites that their city might be incomparable to LA because it is less than 1/5 the size?)

I was reading a report about a proposal to build an art gallery on a lot on the Halifax waterfront and it mentioned that 2.5 million people walk along that stretch of boardwalk every year. I think, outside of special events like the fireworks or Pride, that the most vibrant stretch of waterfront in the two cities is probably the Maritime Museum wharf area in Halifax. It's more packed with stuff and people than anywhere on the Vancouver waterfront. And as far as recurring waterfront-oriented events go, Tall Ships in Halifax is tops for waterfront events in the two cities. I don't think it's just a matter of Halifax being much smaller, less busy, and less impressive, but having a distinct feel. They are about on par in my opinion, with Halifax probably having the edge in terms of the density and variety of stuff immediately adjacent to the boardwalk. Partly this is a consequence of history and partly it's due to how much the Vancouver waterfront is oriented toward park-like uses.

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by someone123

Could we have the same conversation, but replace Vancouver with LA and Halifax with Vancouver? LA is much larger, its waterfront is much more expansive, it is more famous, and it is full of people who have never been to Vancouver but will tell you they know it is inferior (probably very nice but let's be real here!). I think Vancouver has a much better waterfront than LA and is a nicer city overall.

My comments were not about nicest, but about vibrancy. What does that mean to someone who says city A's waterfront is more vibrant than city B's? Vibrancy - is it a gut feeling, or an actual metric? Can you cherry pick a one block stretch to say city A is more vibrant than city B if you take out these days and special occasions? With six times the population, more tourists, plus more marine activity Vancouver will be more vibrant if you define that as things that move or change. If we are to look at small areas then most cities have a vibrant waterfront block or area along the ocean or river.

[scryer]

And here I am, wondering why we just can't have two spectacular waterfronts in both cities without feeling the need to compare them....

They're both nice, okay? And we are very fortunate to have cities on the Atlantic and the Pacific. Both waterfronts will develop beautifully. So calm down .

[KnoxfordGuy]

Wow hahaha

Originally Posted by zoomer

/\ How do you define ‘vibrancy’? I can’t think of any measure where the Halifax waterfront is more vibrant than Vancouver if for no other reason than the massive population difference. Unless by vibrancy you mean diversity, and even then I’d be curious to see what that looks like beyond anecdotal accounts.

I can understand just liking one more than the other; Halifax has that old Eastern seaboard port feeling... gritty, more industrial, better places to dump a cement shoe wearing body (having just stabbed the guy in the alley behind the marine vessel repair building) on a misty fall evening, followed up by having a good meal at that Italian tavern that’s been there for 90 years - still with the red and white checked plastic table cloths. House wine is $3 a glass - the owner makes it himself in the basement of his home. It’s not very good, but after two glasses it doesn’t really matter. You’re just trying to unwind and numb the pain of your probably fractured left wrist picked up in the struggle just before the successful stabbing. And to think it was all over a dumb argument with that west coast tourist over who had the better waterfront.

[Pinion]

.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Can you cherry pick a one block stretch to say city A is more vibrant than city B if you take out these days and special occasions? With six times the population, more tourists, plus more marine activity Vancouver will be more vibrant if you define that as things that move or change. If we are to look at small areas then most cities have a vibrant waterfront block or area along the ocean or river.

My cherry-picked section is hundreds of meters or maybe kilometres of boardwalk and my special occasion is any time but winter (although Vancouver's waterfront is less busy in winter too; I'm not sure that matters). I'm not sure the argument you make is a good one. If we were talking about Halifax and New York City I would not be able to pick one street in Halifax that is busier and has more stuff than anything in NYC.

I've had a lot more experiences of being in busy crowds outside of special events on the Halifax waterfront than on the Vancouver waterfront. I am saying that a lot of Halifax's waterfront is busier with pedestrians walking around, shoppers, and people generally hanging out. Overall the level of vibrancy seems similar to me, or maybe moderately higher in Halifax, not notably higher in Vancouver.

I think you guys also believe that I think everything in Halifax is better. But I don't feel this way at all. For example, my assessment is that Vancouver has vastly better public transit. In the same way, having lived in each city for around 10 years, I feel like they're about the same in terms of waterfront vibrancy and amenities. Note that this argument isn't symmetric; I'm arguing Vancouver is maybe #1 or #2, and the other current or ex-BC people are arguing that you have to be crazy to even admit the possibility that Vancouver is not #1 (even though their experience with some other places is Google Maps and SSP photos).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by scryer

They're both nice, okay? And we are very fortunate to have cities on the Atlantic and the Pacific. Both waterfronts will develop beautifully. So calm down .

I think it's fun to compare cities and it's not something people need to get worked up about. I am open to changing my opinion too.

I'm much more likely to be convinced by somebody bringing up previously under-appreciated aspects of one place or another than I am to be convinced by somebody arguing that a place they have never been to must be inferior because it is located within a metropolitan area with a smaller population. My LA example was meant to illustrate the silliness of this kind of reasoning.

[zoomer]

Yep, I see this as a discussion to learn more about other cities, and I have a lot of respect for Someone123. I also know what’s it’s like to be from a smaller city that is easily in the top 10 in terms of urban experience in a Canadian context even if others are unaware or base that city feeling on the number of tall buildings in the CBD.

So tell me about the vibrant Halifax waterfront, for real! Don’t read this as prove it to me, because I have no doubt it’s a great waterfront. Yes, as I just referred to, population isn’t everything, but it’s not as if Vancouver isn’t totally focused on the waterfront- it is. With a massive population and tourist advantage you’d think that most of the Vancouver waterfront would be more vibrant. Logical argument no? Perhaps it’s not in some cases because the waterfront is so much longer in the urban area? The center of downtown Vancouver is roughly a 10-20 minute walk to the waterfront in most cases, less in Halifax I assume - is this a factor? Is it because the Vancouver waterfront is where you go to relax at the end of the day or on weekends, vs. being tied in to an integral part of the downtown daily life? Granville Island is super busy, I consider much of that waterfront, although Coal Harbour I will agree isn’t super vibrant. Given the choice I’d much rather be facing the English Beach side... well ideally on the 45th floor where I can have a view of both!

I’m heading out to New Brunswick in May, will hit PEI.. might have a day to do the drive to Halifax if all works out well, fingers crossed!

[someone123]

A few parts of the Halifax waterfront have the activity levels and scale of Granville Island, but with nicer buildings and a nicer boardwalk. The seawall doesn't actually go around Granville Island, and I disagree with earlier comments about the interestingness of the nearby large footprint, single use 1970's-era co-op housing.

Vancouver gets more cruise ship passengers (840,000 vs. 290,000 in Halifax) but they mostly (all?) converge on the Canada Place area and as you said that stretch plus Coal Harbour has little going on at the waterfront level, although there are some crowds and there is the odd restaurant. Most of the downtown Vancouver peninsula seawall is parks or just the boardwalk with a restaurant every so often and lots of residential buildings in behind, with major commercial activity set back several blocks from the water.

Nobody is going to believe me but the crowds along the waterfront in Halifax is similar to what you see in Vancouver (which is moderate; the Vancouver seawall generally isn't packed in with tons of people even on nice days). The picture below is what I've encountered on a typical nice summer day, not just when the stars align.

Source

The biggest assets Halifax has that put it in the same range as Vancouver are its historic waterfront buildings. The seaport area piers were built around 100 years ago and they are about half a kilometre long. The cruise ship terminal is there along with Pier 21 and a bunch of other stuff.

There's nothing at all in Vancouver like the 200 year old waterfront warehouse buildings in Halifax. I'm not sure what it's like today but the Keith's brewery market used to be a rabbit warren of old stone archways and cellars full of vendors and businesses. There is nothing like that in Vancouver.

Like I said the WDCL in Halifax also seems to do a better job of event programming and adding in little vendors booths, things to see, buskers, etc. The Halifax waterfront probably has more public art and more of it ties in with local and regional history. For example there's a marble lion statue donated by Venice commemorating John Cabot, an Acadian deportation monument, a Samuel Cunard monument, a merchant marine monument, etc.

There are aspects of the Vancouver waterfront experience that are better too. The beaches are nicer and more numerous, the natural scenery is nicer, and the modern architecture is better on average, for example.

None of this follows directly from tourism stats and you're not going to see an abstract data-driven proof of it anywhere. It's just my opinion.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by someone123

Nobody is going to believe me but the crowds along the waterfront in Halifax is similar to what you see in Vancouver (which is moderate; the Vancouver seawall generally isn't packed in with tons of people even on nice days). The picture below is what I've encountered on a typical nice summer day, not just when the stars align.

Source

The biggest assets Halifax has that put it in the same range as Vancouver are its historic waterfront buildings. The seaport area piers were built around 100 years ago and they are about half a kilometre long. The cruise ship terminal is there along with Pier 21 and a bunch of other stuff.

There's nothing at all in Vancouver like the 200 year old waterfront warehouse buildings in Halifax. I'm not sure what it's like today but the Keith's brewery market used to be a rabbit warren of old stone archways and cellars full of vendors and businesses. There is nothing like that in Vancouver.

That looks like the worst tourist trap one can imagine.

I was not impressed by Halifax's waterfront. It was very underwhelming.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

That looks like the worst tourist trap one can imagine.

I was not impressed by Halifax's waterfront. It was very underwhelming.

Yes although it was posted in response to a question about how busy an area was. This would be like somebody saying "Las Vegas isn't vibrant!" then someone else posts a picture of the strip packed with people, then someone responds by saying the strip is tacky and ugly and a symptom of all that is wrong with our Western culture. Maybe that is true but it is not related to the previous question, and it is very subjective. Thousands of people get on a cruise ship at NYC, get off at Halifax, and think the lurid $17.99 lobster roll shack is amazing.

Both waterfronts have their more and less tourist trap-ish establishments (some utterly without redeeming qualities, some good but overpriced, etc.).

Your negative feedback is hard to interpret without context. You thought Vancouver was amazing but Halifax was underwhelming? Or you just have an opinion about one of them? When did you go? Last summer? January 1982?

[SkahHigh]

AMT 1368 by Michael Berry, sur Flickr