TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by vid

My city was literally disconnected from Eastern Canada for a week two years ago. People were stranged on the other side of a bridge from their homes and had no way of getting home.

When's the last time that happened in Toronto? When is the last time Toronto was 100% separated from the country, and people got stranded outside of the city for days because there was literally no route to enter the city?

K I simply assumed that we all agree on immediately twinning the segments (Kenora, Shabaqua - Sistonens, Pearl - Lake Helen FN) where there is no alternative route...

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by vid

My city was literally disconnected from Eastern Canada for a week two years ago. People were stranged on the other side of a bridge from their homes and had no way of getting home.

When's the last time that happened in Toronto? When is the last time Toronto was 100% separated from the country, and people got stranded outside of the city for days because there was literally no route to enter the city?

I'm all for greater infrastructure - but not at unlimited costs and only where warranted. While unfortunate and unreasonable to not be able to return home, this happens once in how many years? If you want all the conveniences to ensure you can get home via multiple routes or means of transportation - move to larger population centres. The northern Ontario notion that southern Ontario is out to quash infrastructure needs is not justified. Perhaps the 10 northern Ontario MPPs (which is your representation by population) can do something or provide added rationale for where infrastrucure money / projects are spent.

[Dengler Avenue]

The sword cuts both ways.
While those that wanna have multiple routes back home should move to a bigger centre, those tired of daily congestion should move to a smaller one. Don't wanna get stuck on the way to work or home because the only route's closed? Work and live in Thunder Bay/Kenora. Tired of Traffic in GTA? Work from home (if such option is available) or find a job in Barrie, Beaverton, Bowmanville, or Bellville, and live there too.

[Marshsparrow]

Based on your logic then there is no need for investment in new infrastructure - we'll just live with the infrastructure that was planned / built multiple years ago and not expand it to accommodate the explosive population and economic growth that has been experienced in a very concentrated area. I did a 40 minute traffic-infused commute for 10 years - hated it and once had the financil means to move - did so - this doesn't negate that the infrastructure projects being built / planned for southern ontario are of a higher priority than those of northern ontario based on existing population, future population growth, economy and competitiveness.

[Dengler Avenue]

I can see your point now.
It's simply unfortunate that none of the cities in the north can grow like Toronto (or GTHA) did. Both Toronto and Hamilton weren't as developed back then.
I guess that ties into the Northern Ontario Development thread too.

Now I remember the conversation I had with a friend in engineering.
Me: What about the bottleneck between Manitoba and Kenora? Should we do anything?
Friend: Not yet.
Me: When should MTO twin it then?
Friend: Whenever Kenora grows.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

I'm all for greater infrastructure - but not at unlimited costs and only where warranted. While unfortunate and unreasonable to not be able to return home, this happens once in how many years? If you want all the conveniences to ensure you can get home via multiple routes or means of transportation - move to larger population centres. The northern Ontario notion that southern Ontario is out to quash infrastructure needs is not justified. Perhaps the 10 northern Ontario MPPs (which is your representation by population) can do something or provide added rationale for where infrastrucure money / projects are spent.

All of the money collected from Northern Ontario citizens and from the mines in Northern Ontario all go to the GTA for it's nice and smooth, and plowed highways.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

All of the money collected from Northern Ontario citizens and from the mines in Northern Ontario all go to the GTA for it's nice and smooth, and plowed highways.

The 800K northern ontarians and mines are not fully capable for paying for all their own infrastructure, services, etc.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

The 800K northern ontarians and mines are not fully capable for paying for all their own infrastructure, services, etc.

I call BS.

Prove me wrong.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I call BS.

Prove me wrong.

As an observation, however, do you want me to start calculating...

Why don't you prove to me your earlier post "All of the money collected from Northern Ontario citizens and from the mines in Northern Ontario all go to the GTA for it's nice and smooth, and plowed highways." - especially interested in the ALL - which is in fact BS.

I love how Wikipedia summarizes Northern Ontario's economy...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ontario#Economy

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

As an observation, however, do you want me to start calculating...

Why don't you prove to me your earlier post "All of the money collected from Northern Ontario citizens and from the mines in Northern Ontario all go to the GTA for it's nice and smooth, and plowed highways." - especially interested in the ALL - which is in fact BS.

I love how Wikipedia summarizes Northern Ontario's economy...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ontario#Economy

I want you to see the realty as you try to get the information.

Simple - All the mining and logging revenue, and all the government expenses in Northern Ontario.

Once you see the results, you will see why I say it all goes to the GTA.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I want you to see the realty as you try to get the information.

Simple - All the mining and logging revenue, and all the government expenses in Northern Ontario.

Once you see the results, you will see why I say it all goes to the GTA.

My eyes are now open as I drove on perfect roads, sent my kids to public school and dropped my wife at her employer (a hospital) and thought to myself - all courtesy and paid for by Northern Ontario

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Roadwork in Timmins is definitely much more of a priority than in the Sault. Hwy 101 connecting link in Timmins is over 20km long and in terrible shape with some of the pavement being over 30 years old. However, a full bypass needs to be built around the Sault.

The ideal route for a full SSM Bypass will land the freeway north of Third Line. How are the trucks gonna access the crossing though? The path of least resistance seems to be Black Road, but here’s my question/concern: How is the city gonna allow international traffic (quite a bit of which consists of big rigs) to wreck a (basically) residential road?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The ideal route for a full SSM Bypass will land the freeway north of Third Line. How are the trucks gonna access the crossing though? The path of least resistance seems to be Black Road, but here’s my question/concern: How is the city gonna allow international traffic (quite a bit of which consists of big rigs) to wreck a (basically) residential road?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gi-slz4cAZ1HgJuwLvplW2TZ6e4&usp=sharing

This is how I envision a lot of things, but if you zoom in on SSM, you will see how I think it should be routed to the border.

[Dengler Avenue]

Also on an unrelated note, I’m surprised that sometimes even engineers are opposed to twinning 2-lane rural highways (not just ON 17, but also roads like NB 11), citing “low AADT”. What’s the deal here? What were they taught in school? Were they not taught about the risk of head-on collisions and grieving families?

I’m saying that because 3 of my friends in the engineering fields (they’re still masters students, by the way) saw me doing freeway designs for 17 around SSM (for the record, I’m not in urban planning nor engineering) and wondered why I’m doing this.

Do Canadian urban planners or engineers simply don’t like freeways in rural area?

[Dengler Avenue]

Also tweets from OPPCommunicationsNWR:

OPPCommunicationsNWR
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Verified account

@OPP_COMM_NWR
Apr 9
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ROAD CLOSURE: Hwy 11/17 between Shabaqua Corners and Hwy 102 Sistonens Corners #ThunderBay - Road closed due to collision, reopening time unknown. ^lm

2 replies 4 retweets 0 likes
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OPPCommunicationsNWR
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Verified account

@OPP_COMM_NWR
Following Following @OPP_COMM_NWR
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CLEARED Road Closure: Hwy 11/17 between Shabaqua Corners and Hwy 102 Sistonens Corners #ThunderBay - Road reopened. ^lm

Additional source: https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/f...highway-11-17-west-of-thunder-bay-887783

It was a head-on between a big rig and a pickup.

Q: How often does this kind of bottleneck-choking closure happen?
A: It happens enough that it hurts everybody. For some, that hurt is literal.

Q: 401 through GTA during rush hour is a joke though. One minor accident can snarl traffic.
A: Use Finch Avenue or Sheppard Avenue then. If you're balling, use 407, even. Also, I'm assuming that public transit isn't an option for you for whatever reason.

(Ps: There are cons to live at small towns or at big cities. Pick your poison.)

[vid]

Fatal traffic collisions doubled in NW Ontario last year
27 deaths was the highest toll in four years
https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/f...s-doubled-in-nw-ontario-last-year-888062

Data compiled by Ontario Provincial Police shows that 27 people lost their lives on the road last year, more than twice as many as died from traffic accidents that were investigated by the OPP in 2016.

...

Within the jurisdiction of the Northwest Region of the OPP, 13 fatalities occurred in collisions involving transport trucks, compared with only three such fatalities the previous year.

[swimmer_spe]

Driving home today, I was thinking about the need for a divided highway.

My commute is between Chelmsford and Cambrian College here is Sudbury. Part of my route is on MR 35. Part of MR 35 is 4 lanes, with a wider centre line, right and left turn lanes, and even an interchange for the busiest street. It has rumble strips down thee centre line and along the shoulders.

If highways 11, 17, 101, 144 and 6 In Northern Ontario were all upgraded to this, it would be a good solution.

MR 35 has low accidents in this location, even in winter. Most issues are either due to moose or people driving into the ditch.

During snowstorms, when the city still hasn't plowed it becomes a single lane road, but it is wide enough to avoid hitting the other lane. Once it is plowed, even when partially covered, it returns back to a 4 lane road. If you pass someone and you hear a noise, you move over slightly and avoid an accident.

We do not need 400 series highways, but we do need safe highways.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Driving home today, I was thinking about the need for a divided highway.

My commute is between Chelmsford and Cambrian College here is Sudbury. Part of my route is on MR 35. Part of MR 35 is 4 lanes, with a wider centre line, right and left turn lanes, and even an interchange for the busiest street. It has rumble strips down thee centre line and along the shoulders.

If highways 11, 17, 101, 144 and 6 In Northern Ontario were all upgraded to this, it would be a good solution.

MR 35 has low accidents in this location, even in winter. Most issues are either due to moose or people driving into the ditch.

During snowstorms, when the city still hasn't plowed it becomes a single lane road, but it is wide enough to avoid hitting the other lane. Once it is plowed, even when partially covered, it returns back to a 4 lane road. If you pass someone and you hear a noise, you move over slightly and avoid an accident.

We do not need 400 series highways, but we do need safe highways.

I was thinking about rumble strips all the way down TCH too, but would they work when snow-covered?
(If yes, when 17's widened, the width of the highway only needs to be <3.66 * 2 + 2.5> * 2 + 0.20 = 19.84 meters as opposed to 20.80 meters <to fit the Jersey barrier in>. That difference of 0.96 meters can mean not having to blast as much rock through Lake Superior Shore.)

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I was thinking about rumble strips all the way down TCH too, but would they work when snow-covered?
(If yes, when 17's widened, the width of the highway only needs to be <3.66 * 2 + 2.5> * 2 + 0.20 = 19.84 meters as opposed to 20.80 meters <to fit the Jersey barrier in>. That difference of 0.96 meters can mean not having to blast as much rock through Lake Superior Shore.)

See my point about a snow storm. They work even while covered with snow and ice.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

See my point about a snow storm. They work even while covered with snow and ice.

Dang it I should have gone down Highway 6 between Guelph and Hamilton when the road's snow-covered to test out the rumble strips in the middle lane then. I just wanna see for myself.

I just don't understand how anything can work if covered in snow. For example, if a car in the opposite lane is about to drift into yours, rumble strips covered in snow, is that car's driver still gonna feel the rumbling under his wheels?