Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

And are you referring to Albert/Slater through the CBD or the Mackenzie King bridge?

The article says "Both streets" so my guess is it is talking about Albert and Slatter streets.

I had noticed the same thing and my guess, judging by the words in each direction, Joanne Chianello has forgotten that they are one way streets, counted 2 lanes and assumed one would be each way. I never trust reporters to get their facts straight.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The article says "Both streets" so my guess is it is talking about Albert and Slatter streets.

I had noticed the same thing and my guess, judging by the words in each direction, Joanne Chianello has forgotten that they are one way streets, counted 2 lanes and assumed one would be each way. I never trust reporters to get their facts straight.

My guess is that sentence was referring to the mackenzie king bridge (one lane each direction with the lane shared with buses)... but the sentence neglected to specify location.

[kevinbottawa]

Redesign of Albert and Slater approved by transportation committee

Jon Willing

Published: April 4, 2018 Updated:April 4, 2018 1:48 PM EDT

Council’s transportation committee on Wednesday approved a redesign plan for two downtown streets as the city prepares to reduce the number of buses when the Confederation Line opens.

The bus-only lanes on Albert and Slater streets won’t be necessary when the LRT line is running through the tunnel under Queen Street in November. The number of buses cutting through the downtown will be reduced by half, and more in some locations.

Under the proposed redesign plan, separated bike lanes will be added to Albert and Slater streets. There will be more bike parking spaces and planters to improve the streetscape. The intersection of Albert and Slater streets, west of Bronson Avenue, will be transformed as part of a larger sewer and watermain project by pushing the intersection slightly east.

It will cost $26 million to reconstruct the Slater-Albert-Bronson node, but the money isn’t expected to be available until 2021. The rest of the corridor, from Bay Street through to the Mackenzie King Bridge, will cost about $6.4 million. The city expects a provincial grant will help pay for some improvements.

The major work at the Slater-Albert-Bronson node won’t happen until 2021, lasting three construction seasons. All other work in the Albert-Slater corridor will start in 2019 and go until 2021.

The number of on-street parking spaces will increase by 65 during the day compared to the current design, but decrease by 190 spaces in the evening and weekend hours. The city says there are 3,000 off-street parking spaces that have low rates of use at night and on weekends.

Rideau-Goulbourn Coun. Scott Moffatt said Albert and Slater streets might have been better locations for segregated bike lanes, rather than Laurier Avenue. Moffatt, who said he’s interested in the safest route possible for cyclists, wondered if the Laurier Avenue bike lanes should be relocated to Albert and Slater streets.

However, his downtown council colleague didn’t like the sound of that.

“We don’t remove bike lanes. We need to add to that capacity,” Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney said.

The ByWard Market BIA and Downtown Rideau BIA expressed concern about customers accessing those shopping destinations if the number of vehicle lanes on the Mackenzie King Bridge is reduced to one in each direction. There are currently two lanes but one is a bus-only lane. City transportation staff committed to working with the BIAs.

ByWard Market BIA executive director Jasna Jennings said market research done by the organization suggests the impacts of construction and lane closures are the No. 1 concern for market patrons, which was even a surprise for her, since parking is usually the top issue.

Council will consider the redesign blueprint next Wednesday.

http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news/tra...wcm/4a081ca1-8f8e-413f-8f10-41a632b3ef82

[kevinbottawa]

Renderings of the changes to Albert/Slater from Jon Willing's Twitter account. The design of the MacKenzie King Bridge definitely changed from Downtown Moves. Would've been nice to have the bike lane in the median from Elgin to Waller.

[J.OT13]

Looks decent. I can live with this.

[roger1818]

If we aren't going to have the money to do the major part of the work until 2021, what is the rush to commit to a plan now? Why not let the dust from LRT to settle first and see how the relocation of STO routes affects traffic patterns. Lets not rush into anything only to discover we were wrong and have to fix it later.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If we aren't going to have the money to do the major part of the work until 2021, what is the rush to commit to a plan now? Why not let the dust from LRT to settle first and see how the relocation of STO routes affects traffic patterns. Lets not rush into anything only to discover we were wrong and have to fix it later.

We don't know how LRT will handle major events such as Canada Day, for example. We may need buses as well.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Looks decent. I can live with this.

Agreed. Anything is better than the hellscape of the transitway we currently have on Albert & Slater. Removing a lane and hopefully slowing traffic down will go a long way to improving those streets overall.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If we aren't going to have the money to do the major part of the work until 2021, what is the rush to commit to a plan now? Why not let the dust from LRT to settle first and see how the relocation of STO routes affects traffic patterns. Lets not rush into anything only to discover we were wrong and have to fix it later.

Agree as well. There should still be bus lanes through downtown after LRT. We shouldn't be aiming for busses trapped in traffic jams like on Bank Street at rush hour, especially through downtown.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We don't know how LRT will handle major events such as Canada Day, for example. We may need buses as well.

I am not really concerned about major events. Canada Day is the only one that might overwhelm the LRT, and even then, probably only after the fireworks. Even with the proposed changes, they could continue to close Albert, Slater and the Mackenzie King Bridge off to public vehicles and reserve them for buses to handle the overflow.

Originally Posted by JHikka

Agreed. Anything is better than the hellscape of the transitway we currently have on Albert & Slater. Removing a lane and hopefully slowing traffic down will go a long way to improving those streets overall.

The biggest problem with Albert and Slater streets are the sheer volume of buses running along them. Even if they change the plan so that all of the STO buses run along Albert and Slater streets, the number of buses will be greatly reduced. They will also be largely unidirectional (mostly along Slater St in the AM and mostly along Albert St in the PM), further reducing their impact.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If we aren't going to have the money to do the major part of the work until 2021, what is the rush to commit to a plan now? Why not let the dust from LRT to settle first and see how the relocation of STO routes affects traffic patterns. Lets not rush into anything only to discover we were wrong and have to fix it later.

That might make too much sense.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Agree as well. There should still be bus lanes through downtown after LRT. We shouldn't be aiming for busses trapped in traffic jams like on Bank Street at rush hour, especially through downtown.

More to the point: we should be aiming to free buses and their passengers from being trapped in traffic jams on Bank, on Rideau, even in some surprising places like Laurier East.

But the city is doing absolutely nothing to address those problems, even as it spends hundreds of milions to improve transit service in the suburbs.

Urbanites are chopped liver.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If we aren't going to have the money to do the major part of the work until 2021, what is the rush to commit to a plan now? Why not let the dust from LRT to settle first and see how the relocation of STO routes affects traffic patterns. Lets not rush into anything only to discover we were wrong and have to fix it later.

My understanding is that the city wants to get started with what they can right away, and use temporary measures when possible. What they don't want is to hand the current transit lane over to general traffic, than have to deal with taking it back in a couple years. Expect to see traffic barrels blocking lanes as soon as the buses are gone.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Catenary

My understanding is that the city wants to get started with what they can right away, and use temporary measures when possible. What they don't want is to hand the current transit lane over to general traffic, than have to deal with taking it back in a couple years. Expect to see traffic barrels blocking lanes as soon as the buses are gone.

Couldn't they just maintain the bus lanes until they are ready to do a full redo of the streets? After all, STO will be using those streets as soon as OC stops.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I am not really concerned about major events. Canada Day is the only one that might overwhelm the LRT, and even then, probably only after the fireworks.

I was under the impression that initial capacity load concerns on the O-Train would start from day 1 (revolving around the discussion on here previously about car size and station platform length).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I was under the impression that initial capacity load concerns on the O-Train would start from day 1 (revolving around the discussion on here previously about car size and station platform length).

I believe most of the concerns about car size and station platform length was the opinion of one member and not the consensus of the forum. The reality is we won't know for sure until day 1 if those fears are well founded or not.

[J.OT13]

Couple of things don't drive with their timeline (quotes from the Postmedia article);

The major work at the Slater-Albert-Bronson node won’t happen until 2021

So, they'll build this "landmark" central library and hype it up, two days after it opens, they will rip-up the street in front of it and it will be a big mess for 3 years? Why not start with that intersection and build it in tandem with the library? Purely about deferring the cost, no doubt.

Note that I understand the complicated logistics of two big projects u/c at once, but I'm sure there's a way to manage.

All other work in the Albert-Slater corridor will start in 2019 and go until 2021.

As others have suggested, maybe we should delay this work for a year or two after the Confederation Line opens in order to iron out the kinks with the line and the new STO routes.

To comment on Scott Moffatt's suggestion to remove the Laurier bike lanes after Albert and Slater are reconstructed (with bike lanes), I think it's a great idea. The extra space could be used to widen the ridiculously narrow sidewalks.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Huh. I was under the impression that STO was going to use the lanes to help get buses off Wellington.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

To comment on Scott Moffatt's suggestion to remove the Laurier bike lanes after Albert and Slater are reconstructed (with bike lanes), I think it's a great idea. The extra space could be used to widen the ridiculously narrow sidewalks.

Except that would never happen, they would just use the space to reinstate on-street parking on Laurier.

If Laurier was redone properly with bike tracks instead of the half-assed version they have now, it would probably result in wider sidewalks. Those bike lanes were just carved out of the roadway without touching the sidewalks.

IMO the city should:
1. insist/invest in more public parking garages so there is one at least 200 metres from any destination in the CBD, with enough new spaces to replace or even exceed current on-street spots. This would put some equivalency on car access vs LRT.

2. install a system of electronic signs that display availability of parking in the garages in real time. This should reduce people driving around looking for spots, which constitutes a portion of internal downtown traffic.

3. regulate short-term parking rates so they all charge the same as on-street rates in the city for the first hour.

4. restrict all on-steet parking entirely in the CBD from Laurier on northwards 6am to 6pm

5. widen all sidewalks, restructuring some of them to provide delivery bays and flex parking spaces after hours like on Queen Street.

Maybe we should also innovate ways of capturing the city's residual heat or geothermal energy/river water heat exchange to make the downtown streets ice- and snow-free in the winter with minimal plowing and salting

[J.OT13]

Removing the Laurier bike lanes for wider sidewalks might not have been his idea, but it is valid. I agree with most of your points except for adding parking to replace street parking. There is enough as is.