Sparks Street

[McC]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

For example, the city could make the property taxes high enough that the retail along Sparks street isn't profitable unless they stay open longer.

the City doesn't charge the federal government property taxes, and PSPC negotiates the PILT rate with the provinces, not with municipalities.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

For example, the city could make the property taxes high enough that the retail along Sparks street isn't profitable unless they stay open longer.

I'm pretty certain that would have the opposite effect. Businesses under that type of punitive tax structure would be open fewer hours, like zero.

[McC]

^^^ that's also an important point.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

By active retail, I mean the very restaurants, cafes and small art galleries mentioned above. The old bank buildings would make for nice theatres and performance venues, actually.

Those retail slots were all open until very recently and they didn't attract many restaurants, cafes and small art galleries, nor have any of the existing "for lease" properties.

Converting a bank to a theatre isn't a terrible idea, but it is a lot of money to spend (evicting CIBC, re-configuring the building for use as a theatre, trying to persuade one of the theatre companies to relocate from their current purpose-built buildings) for a pretty small benefit (maybe putting 200 people on the street once per day).

The thing is, Sparks Street is a commercial area in an office-building district. It attracts the kind of businesses that all commercial areas in office buildings (things office workers can do on their lunch hour) with a few tourist-oriented businesses in the immediate vicinity of Parliament.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Look also at Lyon Street, originally designed as a market square but now dominated by cars and soon to be buses. Would that not be a good place for an interestingly designed public square that would allow for small performances, patios and surrounded by interesting restaurants? Another lost opportunity.

I've always wanted to see a proper public square in that part of downtown. if done properly, it could add some life to the area.

[lrt's friend]

I could be wrong but my impression is that the south side of Sparks Street is doing better than the north side. The north side, of course is owned by the feds.

My understanding is that the federal government is not always a good landlord, bureaucratic and non responsive to tenants. They will sometimes impose substantial rent increases with little notice or don't always offer long-term leases needed for a business to succeed and invest in itself or impose draconian bilingualism requirements that would never happen with private sector landlords.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The old bank buildings would make for nice theatres and performance venues, actually.

Better yet, why not refurbish the old Place de Ville theatre at 300 Spark St. It was used for Kontinuum, but is otherwise abandoned. It would have the advantage of a direct connection to the LRT.

Further reading:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...past-1.2511978

https://ottawarewind.com/2014/01/18/...movie-theatre/

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I've always wanted to see a proper public square in that part of downtown. if done properly, it could add some life to the area.

The "proper public square" should be Sparks Street itself.

If we stop thinking of each block as a "street", and start thinking of them as "squares", we are a good chunk of the way towards fixing the problems with Sparks.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The "proper public square" should be Sparks Street itself.

If we stop thinking of each block as a "street", and start thinking of them as "squares", we are a good chunk of the way towards fixing the problems with Sparks.

The location in question was always designed to be a square in the traditional sense and Sparks Street crosses this square. By returning to its original purpose, it could provide a way to really animate the west part of Sparks Street. It could be a focal point to invite pedestrians westward. There are real challenges otherwise on this part of Sparks Street because of how the buildings were designed without storefronts facing the street.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The location in question was always designed to be a square in the traditional sense and Sparks Street crosses this square. By returning to its original purpose, it could provide a way to really animate the west part of Sparks Street. It could be a focal point to invite pedestrians westward. There are real challenges otherwise on this part of Sparks Street because of how the buildings were designed without storefronts facing the street.

And restoring the public square on Lyon - nearly impossible now, with the monument and passerelle in the way - won't really accomplish as much as "storefronting" would.

Maintaining and improving human-friendly ground-level uses is what Sparks needs more than anything. Without it, almost every other idea is mostly useless. That, and Ottawa's blue-hairs need to get over their snobbishness which looks down on the down-market but highly popular things like Ribfest that do successfully draw people to the street.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And restoring the public square on Lyon - nearly impossible now, with the monument and passerelle in the way - won't really accomplish as much as "storefronting" would.

Maintaining and improving human-friendly ground-level uses is what Sparks needs more than anything. Without it, almost every other idea is mostly useless. That, and Ottawa's blue-hairs need to get over their snobbishness which looks down on the down-market but highly popular things like Ribfest that do successfully draw people to the street.

But we need everyday pedestrian traffic as well, not just special events.

I do chuckle at your 'down-market' comment though, after the reaction I received when I suggested that we needed an urban Walmart downtown. Especially considering that we had Zellers, two Woolworths, two Metropolitans and a Kresge Store on Sparks and Rideau not all that long ago.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

But we need everyday pedestrian traffic as well, not just special events.

Whence the need to de-brutalize the more brutal buildings at grade.

There have been a few successes in this regard, the Three Brewers in 240 Sparks being perhaps the best. If that building can be debrutalized, maybe there's hope for the Royal Bank!

I do chuckle at your 'down-market' comment though, after the reaction I received when I suggested that we needed an urban Walmart downtown. Especially considering that we had Zellers, two Woolworths, two Metropolitans and a Kresge Store on Sparks and Rideau not all that long ago.

If Walmart can't be convinced to build an urban outlet, maybe Giant Tiger can!

[OTSkyline]

There's already a Giant Tiger a couple of blocks away in the Byward Market - on George St.

[roger1818]

As much as I like the concept of a pedestrian only street, I can't help but think that having one on Spark Street is a bit like putting a square peg in a round hole. It is 850m long and only 150m wide (from Wellington to Queen), maximizing the distance you need to walk for a minimum number of potential retailers. This in a city that is bitterly cold for 6 months of the year and blisteringly hot for 2, making long walks outside unpleasant. On top of that, half of the buildings are owned by the federal government, which means we have little to no control of what they do with them, further reducing the retail density.

I am not opposed to the idea, just maybe not there.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The "proper public square" should be Sparks Street itself.

If we stop thinking of each block as a "street", and start thinking of them as "squares", we are a good chunk of the way towards fixing the problems with Sparks.

So I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the Bank of Canada just finished building a VERY LARGE SQUARE square ON Sparks Street. Fully wired for sound, complete with seating for a few hundred people.

*cue tumbleweeds, granulated salt, and a howling, windy kind of noise*

When we animate Sparks Street we'll be a good chunk of the way towards fixing the problems with Sparks. Animation is the name of the game. Nobody likes to animate, or better described, nobody has the bureaucratic systems in place to 'allow' animation to be had, save for the tried and tested meat-trucks owned by one single conglomerate who love to take our money for overpriced meats, and a low density, manageable amount of tenants for the NCC.

How to animate? Restaurants aren't good enough. Lots of people *start* at a restaurant and want to carry on somewhere else. Theatres, comedy clubs, escape rooms, bars, clubs, basically Elgin Street density of businesses is the only way. Add to that about 20,000 residential units, and you'll be well on your way to a real, live street!

(I take an example of Sparks east. During a Southam Hall performance night at the NAC, Darcy McGees is jam packed full of theatre patrons)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

So I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the Bank of Canada just finished building a VERY LARGE SQUARE square ON Sparks Street. Fully wired for sound, complete with seating for a few hundred people.

*cue tumbleweeds, granulated salt, and a howling, windy kind of noise*

When we animate Sparks Street we'll be a good chunk of the way towards fixing the problems with Sparks. Animation is the name of the game. Nobody likes to animate, or better described, nobody has the bureaucratic systems in place to 'allow' animation to be had, save for the tried and tested meat-trucks owned by one single conglomerate who love to take our money for overpriced meats, and a low density, manageable amount of tenants for the NCC.

How to animate? Restaurants aren't good enough. Lots of people *start* at a restaurant and want to carry on somewhere else. Theatres, comedy clubs, escape rooms, bars, clubs, basically Elgin Street density of businesses is the only way. Add to that about 20,000 residential units, and you'll be well on your way to a real, live street!

(I take an example of Sparks east. During a Southam Hall performance night at the NAC, Darcy McGees is jam packed full of theatre patrons)

I think you're right, but such a plan would basically require the federal government to vacate the North end of downtown and probably cost hundred's of millions. I just don't see the point. Why are we that invested in sparks street? It was a cute little pilot project from the 1960s that clearly hasn't worked.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think you're right, but such a plan would basically require the federal government to vacate the North end of downtown and probably cost hundred's of millions. I just don't see the point. Why are we that invested in sparks street? It was a cute little pilot project from the 1960s that clearly hasn't worked.

It is still the best east-west street across downtown. The others are even worse. We need to connect our downtown attractions, while we are planning to extend to the west across Lebreton. We cannot have a dead zone in the middle. Downtown will not be complete until we return Sparks Street to its past glory.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think you're right, but such a plan would basically require the federal government to vacate the North end of downtown and probably cost hundred's of millions. I just don't see the point. Why are we that invested in sparks street? It was a cute little pilot project from the 1960s that clearly hasn't worked.

That's kind of been my line of thinking as well.

Look, I would love for Sparks to be the next trending place in town. Whenever I head there for Ribfest and see the street packed full of people, spilling out onto nearby streets it's a cool site to see. Vibrancy is needed in a healthy downtown. Thing is, we have two "entertainment" districts in Elgin street and the Byward Market, which are the go-to spots to head on the weekend and are usually busy after hours. If the city is so hell bent on making Sparks a destination to be after 8-4, then they need to bring forward and enact bold decisions, what those are I'm not sure, although there have been some good suggestions in this thread.

The majority of Canada's major financial districts are deadzones past 5pm; Sparks is located in the heart of Ottawa's business centre and so naturally it has not much going for it after hours. I'm not saying the city should stop caring about Sparks or forget about it, but if it wants to treat this like a real issue then do so. But I think we can all agree there are far more pressing issues and concerns from an urban design perspective in Ottawa that are more pertinent. Just my opinion.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

How to animate? Restaurants aren't good enough. Lots of people *start* at a restaurant and want to carry on somewhere else. Theatres, comedy clubs, escape rooms, bars, clubs, basically Elgin Street density of businesses is the only way. Add to that about 20,000 residential units, and you'll be well on your way to a real, live street!

I've always believed that getting people living in an area is the easiest way to having areas become livelier after hours. As a Centretown resident for the past few years i've been able to see the impact that new, denser buildings with tenants in them have on the local retail and nightlife scene. Bank Street seems moderately busier through the evenings now and that's thanks to a further densifying core and that's only going to increase once projects like SoBa are completed. Elgin feels like it gets busier and more active every year. Even Chinatown now is starting to get a little bit less sleepy after hours. Every new condo tower or apartment building will incrementally add people to a neighbourhood and that has an impact on the active hours in that neighbourhood.

For me, getting more people living in-and-near Sparks will go a long way to getting it to become more viable after 5PM. Developing LeBreton Flats and having a destination at the west end of Sparks will do wonders for the pedestrian thruway aspect of the street, but i'm a big believer in the retail and nightlife developing once people are already living and working in the immediate area. Having parcels of land developed like the ones at Queen & Lyon, and having people living on that block closer to Sparks, will go a long way towards making that end of the CBD more viable after hours. The LRT should have some positive impact but that might be further down the road.

This sort of incremental neighbourhood activity increase should be seen along Preston and Carling once that area gets an injection of hundreds of new residents over the next few years.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

There's already a Giant Tiger a couple of blocks away in the Byward Market - on George St.

More than a couple blocks.