The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 532

swimmer_spe · #**10621** Posted **Mar 30, 2018, 3:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

The main argument against widening the mont-royal tunnel has always been financial. It would cost billions of dollars.

To which I say so what? Sooner or later it will have to be done. There are presently no discussions on widening it.

I did not say widen the existing tunnel. I did say to dig a new tunnel.

J.OT13 · #**10622** Posted **Mar 30, 2018, 12:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

The main argument against widening the mont-royal tunnel has always been financial. It would cost billions of dollars.

To which I say so what? Sooner or later it will have to be done. There are presently no discussions on widening it.

No kidding.

How many billions are we pouring into the one stop Scarborough subway that might see 40,000 users per day? For less, we can probably widen the Mount Royal Tunnel that would probably see over a million people run through it every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I did not say widen the existing tunnel. I did say to dig a new tunnel.

Cost is the argument for any of the solutions. Honestly though, adding more trains and tracks through Mount Royal should be one of the countries top transportation priorities along with Toronto's DRL, which is another project that's been neglected for years.

GeneralLea · #**10623** Posted **Mar 30, 2018, 1:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

No kidding.

How many billions are we pouring into the one stop Scarborough subway that might see 40,000 users per day? For less, we can probably widen the Mount Royal Tunnel that would probably see over a million people run through it every day.

I'm completely stumped by how city councillors are fine with a ONE STOP "express" subway line to the most populated part of Scarborough,,,,,but don't think it's better to add stops along the way due to expenses.....just ridiculous.

Yea, it's mind boggling that they haven't expanded that tunnel through Mont Royale.....if they don't then it'll just lead to more complications and inefficiencies in regional transit.

Coldrsx · #**10624** Posted **Mar 30, 2018, 4:35 PM**

LRT to Heritage Valley/new hospital seems imminent.

www.edmontonjournal.com

nephersir7 · #**10625** Posted **Mar 30, 2018, 7:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

No kidding.

How many billions are we pouring into the one stop Scarborough subway that might see 40,000 users per day? For less, we can probably widen the Mount Royal Tunnel that would probably see over a million people run through it every day.

The RTM train lines (St-Jerome, Mascouche) that could potentially have used a widened Mt Royal tunnel have a combined ridership of about 10,000 users per day, 3-4 times less than the scarborough subway extension.

J.OT13 · #**10626** Posted **Mar 31, 2018, 4:04 AM**

Yes, commuter rail is a small part of it, but if we add in the REM and VIA, then you get something around the million+ figure.

p_xavier · #**10627** Posted **Mar 31, 2018, 10:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yes, commuter rail is a small part of it, but if we add in the REM and VIA, then you get something around the million+ figure.

200 000 if we stretch it... The REM is a much better use of the tunnel in every case though.

J.OT13 · #**10628** Posted **Mar 31, 2018, 1:17 PM**

Hmmm, it seems a million was a pretty bloated figure (AMT is currently 31,000. Stands to reason those numbers will be reduced with REM. REM's projected ridership is 173,000, some of which will not go through the tunnel. Could not find figures on VIA's Montreal-Québec ridership). But even with 200,000 day one (AMT, VIA and REM combined), the cost is still justified. It's safe to say that ridership for both REM and VIA (HFR) will increase significantly within the first decade.

GlassCity · #**10629** Posted **Mar 31, 2018, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

LRT to Heritage Valley/new hospital seems imminent.

www.edmontonjournal.com

I don't really understand what this map is showing. What's the relation of the Green Line to the Capital Line extension? The word "scenario" implies that there's a choice between them to me. Or is the map just showing two future projects on one map? And if so, what's the status of the green BRT?

Coldrsx · #**10630** Posted **Mar 31, 2018, 6:28 PM**

Green would be BRT, blue is the extension of LRT.

nephersir7 · #**10631** Posted **Mar 31, 2018, 6:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hmmm, it seems a million was a pretty bloated figure (AMT is currently 31,000. Stands to reason those numbers will be reduced with REM. REM's projected ridership is 173,000, some of which will not go through the tunnel. Could not find figures on VIA's Montreal-Québec ridership). But even with 200,000 day one (AMT, VIA and REM combined), the cost is still justified. It's safe to say that ridership for both REM and VIA (HFR) will increase significantly within the first decade.

^Several mistakes up there.

173k is the projection for the end of the first decade, not day 1.
VIA Rail doesn't currently run trains through the tunnel. So zero for day one.
The 2017 daily ridership on the RTM Mascouche line is 7800, 83% of which go through the tunnel, so 3250 people per direction per weekday on day one.
And these users are included in the REM ridership forecasts, so you can't add them on top of the REM ridership.

---------

With HFR, VIA intends to run 10 trains/direction per day on the north shore via the tunnel. At 285 seats per train, that's 2850 people per direction per day if there's a 100% load factor. The current load factor on MTL-QC is about 60%.

There's no way the cost is justified.

GoTrans · #**10632** Posted **Apr 1, 2018, 12:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nephersir7

^Several mistakes up there.

173k is the projection for the end of the first decade, not day 1.
VIA Rail doesn't currently run trains through the tunnel. So zero for day one.
The 2017 daily ridership on the RTM Mascouche line is 7800, 83% of which go through the tunnel, so 3250 people per direction per weekday on day one.
And these users are included in the REM ridership forecasts, so you can't add them on top of the REM ridership.

---------

With HFR, VIA intends to run 10 trains/direction per day on the north shore via the tunnel. At 285 seats per train, that's 2850 people per direction per day if there's a 100% load factor. The current load factor on MTL-QC is about 60%.

There's no way the cost is justified.

In reality it is total train movements through the tunnel that determine capacity. If Via will run 10 trains per day in each direction, then that is a total of 20 trains using the tunnel each day. At 285 seats per train the maximum capacity is 5,700 people per day or 3,420 actual riders per day at your 60% occupancy rate. Since Via will try to covert some airline passengers to rail the occupancy rate should become higher depending upon cost, speed, and reliability, all of which should improve with HFR.

It is also the connectivity that is important. Since most trains going between Montreal and Quebec are really trains originating in Ottawa, you then reduce the convenience to people using the other segment of the train. Since HFR will travel from Toronto to Montreal via Ottawa, you are also further reducing the ridership.

This issue is really about who has the right to control access to the rail network. This is the same thing that is occurring in Ottawa with the ex CPR Prince of Wales bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau.

Coldrsx · #**10633** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 6:41 PM**

Edmonton to receive $878 million for transit projects under federal-provincial deal

Elise Stolte

Edmonton’s transit system is receiving a healthy boost thanks to a cash injection from the federal government.

Federal, provincial and city officials held a news conference in Edmonton Tuesday where they announced Alberta’s $3.3 billion share of Ottawa’s $33 billion infrastructure fund will go towards transit, green infrastructure, recreation and other needs in the next 10 years.

The money represents Phase 2 of the infrastructure fund first promised in the 2015 federal election. It’s the first time the public has seen Alberta-specific numbers and details of how those dollars will be matched by the province.

The funding breaks down to $2.1 for public transit, $1 billion for green infrastructure, $140 million for community and recreation and $160 million for rural and northern communities.

It’s enough to get Edmonton’s west LRT built, plus contribute to other transit priorities. That includes helping downtown Edmonton convert to district energy and investing in electric buses, said Mayor Don Iveson after the formal contract was signed between Alberta Infrastructure Minister Sandra Jansen and federal Infrastructure and Communities Minister Amarjeet Sohi.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-ne...-billion-in-federal-infrastructure-funds

J.OT13 · #**10634** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nephersir7

^Several mistakes up there.

173k is the projection for the end of the first decade, not day 1.
VIA Rail doesn't currently run trains through the tunnel. So zero for day one.
The 2017 daily ridership on the RTM Mascouche line is 7800, 83% of which go through the tunnel, so 3250 people per direction per weekday on day one.
And these users are included in the REM ridership forecasts, so you can't add them on top of the REM ridership.

---------

With HFR, VIA intends to run 10 trains/direction per day on the north shore via the tunnel. At 285 seats per train, that's 2850 people per direction per day if there's a 100% load factor. The current load factor on MTL-QC is about 60%.

There's no way the cost is justified.

Admittedly, I'm not too much on the ball with this whole issue. I think it's still worth widening the tunnel (or build a new tunnel running parallel) to add capacity for the next 100 years.

I still believe VIA and the Feds should be investing in high speed rail in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor (Montréal to Toronto, via Ottawa first) to truly compete with airlines and reduce it's impact on the environment. HFR, although an improvement, has it's limits.

Black Star · #**10635** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 10:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Edmonton to receive $878 million for transit projects under federal-provincial deal

Elise Stolte

Edmonton’s transit system is receiving a healthy boost thanks to a cash injection from the federal government.

Federal, provincial and city officials held a news conference in Edmonton Tuesday where they announced Alberta’s $3.3 billion share of Ottawa’s $33 billion infrastructure fund will go towards transit, green infrastructure, recreation and other needs in the next 10 years.

The money represents Phase 2 of the infrastructure fund first promised in the 2015 federal election. It’s the first time the public has seen Alberta-specific numbers and details of how those dollars will be matched by the province.

The funding breaks down to $2.1 for public transit, $1 billion for green infrastructure, $140 million for community and recreation and $160 million for rural and northern communities.

It’s enough to get Edmonton’s west LRT built, plus contribute to other transit priorities. That includes helping downtown Edmonton convert to district energy and investing in electric buses, said Mayor Don Iveson after the formal contract was signed between Alberta Infrastructure Minister Sandra Jansen and federal Infrastructure and Communities Minister Amarjeet Sohi.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-ne...-billion-in-federal-infrastructure-funds

This is huge.........

ssiguy · #**10636** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 8:16 PM**

As far as the Mont Royal tunnel goes, to hell with VIA. I fully support REM using the tunnel and if that hurts potential HSR/HFR then so be it. Montreal commuters should not be put on hold for some imaginary improved VIA service "sometime in the future". We all know that VIA will be rolling out a new HSR study anytime now to collect dust with the dozen other studies commissioned by Ottawa.

lrt's friend · #**10637** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

As far as the Mont Royal tunnel goes, to hell with VIA. I fully support REM using the tunnel and if that hurts potential HSR/HFR then so be it. Montreal commuters should not be put on hold for some imaginary improved VIA service "sometime in the future". We all know that VIA will be rolling out a new HSR study anytime now to collect dust with the dozen other studies commissioned by Ottawa.

Truly spoken from a distant viewpoint. We need to consider both urban and intercity transportation in the busy Southern Quebec and Southern Ontario corridor. Our highways are going to eventually choke the economy.

J.OT13 · #**10638** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 8:44 PM**

Confederation Line update. Video shows progress at most stations including pictures of some of the public art installations going up.

• Video Link

OC Transpo boss is starting to worry about the signaling system. No problems reported yet, but it's the same supplier, Thales Canada, as Edmonton's Metro Line.

As some have pointed out in the Ottawa forum, their system works great for grade-separated rapid transit, but not so much for a system like Edmonton's with trains crossing streets.

We'll see once they start testing the entire line in a few weeks.

http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news/tra...wcm/f06885c6-d7ac-43ab-ae7f-aafd4fb993fe

p_xavier · #**10639** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Truly spoken from a distant viewpoint. We need to consider both urban and intercity transportation in the busy Southern Quebec and Southern Ontario corridor. Our highways are going to eventually choke the economy.

The tunnel is only an issue for the QC city trains and there's already a way to go around the mountain to central station. The study to improve rail access around the mountain will help.

VIA also chose in the 90s to not use electrical traction in the tunnel, even if saved time, because of operational issues.

swimmer_spe · #**10640** Posted **Apr 5, 2018, 8:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

As far as the Mont Royal tunnel goes, to hell with VIA. I fully support REM using the tunnel and if that hurts potential HSR/HFR then so be it. Montreal commuters should not be put on hold for some imaginary improved VIA service "sometime in the future". We all know that VIA will be rolling out a new HSR study anytime now to collect dust with the dozen other studies commissioned by Ottawa.

That would be akin to saying that Via cannot use Union Station in Toronto anymore.