The Metro Vancouver Real Estate Thread

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

if you wanna see tacky check this place out, its for sale in ft st john, has been reduced from its original asking of 6 million. Rumour is it belongs to the russian mafia, they are well known to be running the scene if you will up there, they took over or won the turf from the hells angels...

all the furniture is from Russia and China apparently

Barfalicious.

[whatnext]

About time CIBC! I wonder if HSBC will actually tighten up.

A clampdown on lending rules for foreign buyers could prove to be a major game changer for Vancouver's housing industry.

Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce has sent out a memo to its mortgage specialists that said, as of Feb. 1, it has ended its Foreign Income Program and will introduce more stringent requirements for foreign clients.

Reacting to the federal regulator's new "rigorous due diligence" requirements for all financial institutions, the bank now requires proof of foreign income that is claimed in Canada. Income from a foreign source would be declared on Canada Revenue Agency forms, such as the client's T1 General, foreign income verification statement T1135 or a T1134, if a company were being used to apply. The bank will be looking for a Canadian credit bureau report or a foreign credit bureau report for disclosure of liabilities. In other words, the bank is seeking a higher standard of third-party verification...

.."The non-resident mortgage is the hot button product, the one that tends to create what some Canadians perceive to be a double standard," says Mr. Sabour.

While many foreign-owned homes are likely rented out, many other homes are clearly left empty, which has contributed to the city's near-zero vacancy rate and affordability crisis.

"Obviously, there was a problem with that in Vancouver and somebody was approving all those mortgages," Mr. Sabour says. "That created a massive issue, as it should. I think it's fantastic the province is starting to look at that … anything that cracks down on that is a huge win for the local population. Hopefully, it makes enough of an impact where it changes the behaviour."...

..."It would frustrate me as a mortgage broker because I had a lot of clients paying taxes here, doing what their parents said to do – grow up, get a job, save your money and don't ruin your credit rating – and it was very frustrating for them not being able to qualify," says Mr. Sabour, whose own family immigrated to Canada 30 years ago. "I have had two professionals get turned down because of the new [stress test] rules. "And I know obviously some local clients do find that frustrating, because the mortgage rules are impacting them most and someone who is bringing millions of dollars from overseas is not going to care about a 2-per-cent stress test on that qualification. But someone who's worked really hard and now has to move two municipalities away to buy a townhouse, that's frustrating. And it's frustrating for us, too."...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...queeze-vancouver-market/article38125303/

[Vin]

The results are out: the least developed part of downtown and the least developed single family home neighbourhood have the highest percentages of unoccupied residential units.

They are West End and Shaughnessey.

Therefore it has been an urban myth all this time that most condos in Yaletown and Coal Harbour are sitting vacant.

Source:
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-empty-homes-tax-sees-183000-declarations-submitted

[dreambrother808]

Shaughnessy makes sense but the West End confuses me. I've lived in that neighbourhood for many years and have never lived in a building with long-term vacant units. Walk down any street there and pretty much every building says "no vacancy". Landlords are making a killing, so why would they turn away money?

How is the West End the "least developed" part of downtown??? It's dense, although much of the stock is old. Rushing in to decimate the affordability of the neighbourhood with too many new developments is just another nail in the coffin for anyone but the wealthy. You want everything to look pretty and new when you walk through here once or twice a year but who cares about pushing out the people who have lived and worked downtown for decades I guess...

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Shaughnessy makes sense but the West End confuses me. I've lived in that neighbourhood for many years and have never lived in a building with long-term vacant units. Walk down any street there and pretty much every building says "no vacancy". Landlords are making a killing, so why would they turn away money?

It appears that the proportion of vacant or under utilized units (8% in the West End) only refers to ownership units. Purpose built rental units aren't covered by the requirements in the same way. The 8% that's quoted is 735 units (according to the report that the article is partially quoting) so that would be about 9,500 owner units in total.

The census said there were 9,780 condo units, and 21,000 not condominium (almost all of them will be rental), so that seems to make sense.

Some of those 735 could legitimately be empty and not have to pay the tax - if they're vacant for renovations or redevelopment, title transferred during the year, or the owner was residing in a hospital, long term or supportive care facility.

You'll see from the link that about a quarter of the vacant or underutilized units across the city are currently assumed to be vacant because they didn't respond to the requirement to confirm that they're occupied. Some of them may be occupied - they'll get a bill in the mail soon, and that might generate a response from some more owners!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Shaughnessy makes sense but the West End confuses me. I've lived in that neighbourhood for many years and have never lived in a building with long-term vacant units. Walk down any street there and pretty much every building says "no vacancy". Landlords are making a killing, so why would they turn away money?

How is the West End the "least developed" part of downtown??? It's dense, although much of the stock is old. Rushing in to decimate the affordability of the neighbourhood with too many new developments is just another nail in the coffin for anyone but the wealthy. You want everything to look pretty and new when you walk through here once or twice a year but who cares about pushing out the people who have lived and worked downtown for decades I guess...

Thank you for this post. Unfortunately, the last sentence in particular only serves to reinforce the old, sad, but very true cliché: "MONEY WINS."

[whatnext]

Another fun tale from Vancouver's wild west real estate market:


A judge has ordered that the owner of a home in Vancouver’s exclusive Shaughnessy neighbourhood who failed to disclose a gang-related murder of the owner’s son-in-law in front of the property be required to return a $300,000 deposit to a purchaser of the home.

In September 2009, Mei Zhen Wang agreed to sell her luxury home at 3883 Cartier Street to Feng Yun Shao, who was unaware at the time that Raymond Huang, Wang’s son-in-law, had been fatally shot outside the home two years earlier....

... Winnie Yuan, who is Wang’s daughter and was married to Huang, had along with Huang earlier in the evening visited their son at Vancouver General Hospital. Huang left the hospital before Yuan, who later discovered her husband lying on the sidewalk. She testified that she initially thought Huang had fainted, and recalled that a police officer later told her that her husband had died...

...Yuan, who had initially purchased the Cartier Street home on behalf of her mother and later transferred title to Wang but was acting with power of attorney at the time of the sale, was arrested by Hong Kong police in December 2009 and served jail time for money-laundering following a separate proceeding...

...“Ms. Yuan knew, as she acknowledged at trial, that her daughter would not have changed schools but for the murder of Raymond (Huang), ” said the judge.

“Although Ms. Yuan disclosed the murder of her husband to (the realtors), and sought advice concerning the circumstances in which she would be required to disclose Mr. Huang’s death, she and the plaintiff had no intention of disclosing the death unless they were obliged to do so.”

The judge dismissed Wang’s claims and ordered that Shao’s $300,000 deposit be returned to her, and also awarded her $4,000 in damages for legal fees related to the collapsed sale of the property.(bold mine)

http://theprovince.com/news/local-news/s...wcm/8bdd75b3-61fb-4cf8-a808-7484ba78a5ea

[whatnext]

Well, well, well. Here we go again with the usual cast of characters. What is the going number of houses for a Chinese student to own these days? Is anybody surprised or outraged by this anymore?

A student who owned a multi-million dollar Vancouver home has won a B.C. Supreme Court judgment forcing the sale of up to four Vancouver properties, in a complex case that foreshadows a flood of sales and litigation in Vancouver’s wild market, a real estate lawyer says.

In 2016 Angela An-Chi Chang — who owned a home on the 3300-block West 14th Avenue according to legal filings — sued a person who allegedly failed to complete their purchase of Chang’s home. After a court battle, a judge has now ordered the sale of up to four properties owned by the defendant, in a ruling that could lead to further court battles between multiple bank and private lenders who already have mortgages secured by the defendant’s Vancouver real estate assets...

...Chang’s claim says that defendant Xing Xua Hua agreed to buy her Kitsilano home in June 2016, for $3.9 million. Hua, who currently owns four homes in Vancouver, paid Chang a deposit of $190,000. Hua was to complete the purchase of Chang’s home by the end of September 2016. But Hua asked Chang to extend the closing into October 2016, and offered an additional $500,000 deposit.

Chang agreed to the sale extension, her claim says, but she never received the additional deposit funds, and determined the sale had collapsed.

In November 2016, she sued Hua, claiming losses and damages from the collapsed deal.

In a response, Hua claimed that after the purchase deal wasn’t completed in October 2016, Hua’s son, named Hua Wang, offered to buy Chang’s home for $3.9 million. But Chang did not accept the offer from Hua Wang, filings say...(bold mine)


http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/...vancouver-real-estate-deals-fall-through

[Vin]

delete

[rofina]

If this market really relies on private lending, an epic collapse might be a real possibility.

This would imply that mortgage stats, income, etc, are nearly irrelevant.

You're taking about leveraging momentum via private money. This only works when there is momentum to leverage.

This ruling implies a private money lender can foreclose to recoup losses, this could trigger a cascade if properties are only being bought on margin.

Pretty horrifying if true - the floor for some of these properties could be miles below.

That being said - one instance does not make a trend.

[SpongeG]

Marine Drive dance hall sold for $6.88M

The dance hall was previously sold by NAI in 2016 for $5.25 million

Rick Lui Jesse Godin NAI Commercial for Western Investor
April 3, 2018



A concrete building used as a dance hall has sold for $6.88 million, NAI Commercial tells Western Investor.

The 11,5360-square-foot building presents a unique investment potential, zoned for industrial use but offering the opportunity for office or retail use. The property was listed for $7.8 million and sold for close to one million below. The property was built in 1998 and last sold in February 2016 for $5,250,000 by NAI.

The property is located at 768 Marine Dr., Vancouver.

...

http://www.westerninvestor.com/done-deals/marine-drive-dance-hall-sold-for-6-88m-1.23253062

[whatnext]

Detached home sales in Vancouver slump to 27 year low:
http://vancitycondoguide.com/vancouver-home-sales-27-year-low-march/

One has to wonder what it will take to trigger a meaningful price correction. There are a couple things that might be contributing to sticky prices:
-Many more houses held by offshore owners as investments and they don't need to sell.
-Local sellers holding out for the return of the offshore buyer
-Sellers hoping for a land assembly price.

The city could spell out clearly what areas absolutely won't be rezoned multifamily, but short of that I can't think of anything else they could do.

[Pinion]

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[rofina]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Eventually (soon) even condos are going to be out of reach for the middle class and that will cause a collapse IMO. The international elite can't run a city on their own.

This whole market is certainly one of the most perverted social experiments happening.

More red lines have been crossed in this City's unaffordability crisis than I ever imagined possible.

[Pinion]

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[retro_orange]

delete

[retro_orange]

'China's Amazon' to start selling Canadian real estate

WI Staff / Western Investor
April 3, 2018 10:18 AM

Real estate portal Juwai.com and "China's Amazon" retail site JD.com inked a deal that will allow Chinese consumers to buy a home with a click of the mouse

Chinese consumers can now buy Canadian homes online through a deal inked with Juwai.com, China’s largest real estate website selling international properties, and JD.com, which is China’s largest retailer, both online and offline.

The tie-up allows JD’s customers to view and purchase real estate listings for properties from Canada, the U.S., Australia and the U.K. directly on JD.com’s shopping site.

JD.com – often called China's Amazon – specifically asked that Canadian real estate be included because of the strong demand for it in China.

A Juwai real estate expert will contact customers with an interest in moving forward with a Canadian property purchase.

The partnership will officially launch in April when properties will become available for viewing on JD.com.

“We are truly excited to be launching this partnership with JD.com, which is not just one of China’s but one of the globe’s most advanced commerce and e-commerce companies,” said Carrie Law, CEO of Juwai.com.

Law said it allows Juwai.com to “continue to fulfill its core mission of helping Chinese become global residents and investors.”

http://www.newwestrecord.ca/real-estate/...-selling-canadian-real-estate-1.23252625

I feel it's time to dial back this globalization thing a bit....

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Eventually (soon) even condos are going to be out of reach for the middle class and that will cause a collapse IMO. The international elite can't run a city on their own.

You underestimate how brazen the Chinese are.
They have no reason to divest and sell out unless there's assurances their offshore assets are not protected from seizure, forfeiture or simply people squatting.
It's like the old joke about swiss bank accounts.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Pinion

The most shocking thing to me is the complete lack of desire to do anything about it. Like even left-leaning New Zealand banned foreign buyers and they could use a few more people.

Interestingly, New Zealand hasn't yet banned foreign purchase of residential property - it's still being debated in a government committee drafting the legislative change. It also intended to apply to overseas developers; they can develop, but will need to sell the whole of their completed project within 12 months of completion. That's expected to put them off, as any market downturn could really impact them.

There's apparently quite a bit of push back against the legislation, but it passed first reading by a small majority so it seems likely to pass again once it's out of committee. That's now been extended to the end of May.

The current government don't seem to agree that they need a few more people - they intend to restrict immigration.

Australia has a limit on foreign home ownership as well: overseas people cannot buy existing property, but can buy new property. Australia's Foreign Investment Review Board says: "Foreign persons generally need to apply and receive foreign investment approval before purchasing new dwellings. Applications to purchase new dwellings are usually approved without conditions."

[Pinion]

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