Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[Ellisjh@]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bcnqge4FSpH/


thought you guys might enjoy this instagram page, it features a lot of new construction from excellent perspectives.

[Majin]

Does anyone have a complete list of stalled projects in the grid? Meaning they were proposed/approved but no construction work has started yet? Off the top of my head:

1. Sacramento Commons
2. Yamanee
3. Hotel Marshall
4. 20th and L apartments (Previously wholefoods)
5. Apartments above Sacbee parking lot
6. Sacramento kings apartments on K street
7. Vanir Tower

Others in limbo:

1. The Metropolitian
2. St Anston building across the street from The Metropolitian
3. 301CM

Anything I'm missing?

[downtownserg89]

Originally Posted by Majin

Does anyone have a complete list of stalled projects in the grid? Meaning they were proposed/approved but no construction work has started yet? Off the top of my head:

1. Sacramento Commons
2. Yamanee
3. Hotel Marshall
4. 20th and L apartments (Previously wholefoods)
5. Apartments above Sacbee parking lot
6. Sacramento kings apartments on K street
7. Vanir Tower

Others in limbo:

1. The Metropolitian
2. St Anston building across the street from The Metropolitian
3. 301CM

Anything I'm missing?

The Paragary's mid-rise? The senior LGBT housing on 16th & F. I think the housing project on the northeast corner of 16th & H just broke ground. Well, they started gutting out the surface parking, but construction of the building has not technically started.

Also, there's that high-rise proposed for the lot directly next to the historic Heilbron House. That's all I can think of at the moment. There must be a few more.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by Majin

Does anyone have a complete list of stalled projects in the grid? Meaning they were proposed/approved but no construction work has started yet? Off the top of my head:

1. Sacramento Commons
2. Yamanee
3. Hotel Marshall
4. 20th and L apartments (Previously wholefoods)
5. Apartments above Sacbee parking lot
6. Sacramento kings apartments on K street
7. Vanir Tower

Others in limbo:

1. The Metropolitian
2. St Anston building across the street from The Metropolitian
3. 301CM

Anything I'm missing?

"Stalled" implies that things aren't moving forward. I know the people in charge of two of these projects and as far I know they're still a go.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Originally Posted by ozone

"Stalled" implies that things aren't moving forward. I know the people in charge of two of these projects and as far I know they're still a go.

I know Press went in for permit a while ago. Don't know what the delay is, that was supposed to have been started by December at the latest.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by ozone

"Stalled" implies that things aren't moving forward. I know the people in charge of two of these projects and as far I know they're still a go.

Which ones? As far as I know there hasn't been any (public) news on any of these projects in quite awhile despite having all of the approvals.

[SacTownAndy]

Originally Posted by Majin

Does anyone have a complete list of stalled projects in the grid? Meaning they were proposed/approved but no construction work has started yet? Off the top of my head:

1. Sacramento Commons
2. Yamanee
3. Hotel Marshall
4. 20th and L apartments (Previously wholefoods)
5. Apartments above Sacbee parking lot
6. Sacramento kings apartments on K street
7. Vanir Tower

Others in limbo:

1. The Metropolitian
2. St Anston building across the street from The Metropolitian
3. 301CM

Anything I'm missing?

What about that apartment building that was supposed to go up on Broadway and was supposed to have a big "BROADWAY" sign up top (anyone remember what I'm talking about?). Also the "Riveredge" (now called "West") apartment building on the West Sac side of the Tower Bridge was supposed to have broken ground like two years ago.

[j_deguzman10]

Originally Posted by ozone

"Stalled" implies that things aren't moving forward. I know the people in charge of two of these projects and as far I know they're still a go.

What two projects are you talking about? I hope one of them is The Metropolitan because the July deadline is coming very quickly or else the the project will be killed, which would be a total shame if that’s the case because it was so close to starting pre recession.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by j_deguzman10

What two projects are you talking about? I hope one of them is The Metropolitan because the July deadline is coming very quickly or else the the project will be killed, which would be a total shame if that’s the case because it was so close to starting pre recession.

Sorry the Metropolitan is not one of them. I know nothing about that project. Re. the 2 projects listed I am loathe to talk about them because a year or so ago I debated someone on this forum who I found out was involved in a dispute with the developer I knew and that caused some friction, or at least I felt it had or could have done so therefore I'd rather not get into details/names.

[Pistola916]

The city council next Tuesday will discuss a proposal to develop the parking lot, where Aura was once planned, into a 5- story, 150 unit residential building. FIVE STORIES!!!!!

This ridiculous and lame proposal needs to be rejected by council. Anything less than 250 feet is unacceptable.


Good news from another project: the 9 story condo mid-rise on 14th and N street developed by CADA will go to the Planning Commission next Thursday. I like this project a lot - great design.

[snfenoc]

Yeah, a writer for the SBJ is hinting at development at the Aura site. Five stories is really disappointing. I was hoping for something in the 15-20 range.

That same SBJ writer mentioned there may be news on the 21st and L proposal (formerly Whole Foods) coming soon. Let’s hope it’s good.

[ltsmotorsport]

Wow, really disappointing to hear about the Aura site. Five stories on Capitol Mall is absolutely pathetic and really says something about the vision of our "leaders" in this city. Wherever this idea is coming from, it should be squashed as you don't rush development of such an important location, adjacent to the arena or not.

EDIT

Ok, so nothing local about the proposal; all from Shorenstein. This is a truly an uninspired idea from out of town owners that shouldn’t be supported by anyone with a vote.

[SacTownAndy]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

The city council next Tuesday will discuss a proposal to develop the parking lot, where Aura was once planned, into a 5- story, 150 unit residential building. FIVE STORIES!!!!!

This ridiculous and lame proposal needs to be rejected by council. Anything less than 250 feet is unacceptable.

So if I understand the article correctly, the city council agenda item is to approve/deny a modification request from Shorenstein. The original land transfer deal back in 2002 from the City to Taylor (seller) required three possibilities for the site: "400-foot-tall mixed-use building of 25 floors, a 500-room hotel or 300-unit residential project, or a 65,000-square-foot entertainment or retail development."

So in order to only build 5 stories, they need to get approval from the city to modify the original land transfer deal. And the Economic Development Dept is recommending the council approve the request.

[j_deguzman10]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

The city council next Tuesday will discuss a proposal to develop the parking lot, where Aura was once planned, into a 5- story, 150 unit residential building. FIVE STORIES!!!!!

This ridiculous and lame proposal needs to be rejected by council. Anything less than 250 feet is unacceptable.


Good news from another project: the 9 story condo mid-rise on 14th and N street developed by CADA will go to the Planning Commission next Thursday. I like this project a lot - great design.

You do not know how disappointed I am in the city and David Taylor. A FIVE STORY BUILDING AT CAPITOL MALL!!! A place where there should be skyscrapers, offices, and luxury hotels and condos! A five story project will not fit with Downtown at all, if anything it should belong in Midtown. I hope that this will be a wake up call for David Taylor to move his 🞵🞵🞵🞵 or else Sacramento will be robbed of yet another large scale project and will look like a joke to the city because I know how closely the citizens and residents follow development in the city.

It’s a shame too, the Aura project would have been a wonderful addition to the Sacramento skyline and could have added more luxury condos, hotel rooms, and amenities, along with a beautiful design.

[Majin]

Yeah... I really do not understand how the city council could be on board with this. I rather it remain a parking lot until a skyscraper can be built.

And I am still dubious of the opinion that highrise housing doesnt work when The Sawyer worked and there are already mulitple buildings under construction in midtown taller than 5 floors.

Hell there is a 6 floor apartment building under construction on Stockton Blvd, not even in midtown.

[innov8]

The take away from this is that the market is not strong enough or expensive
enough to support either a high-rise office or condos on Capitol Mall. Look at
all 301 Capitol Mall and Vanir Tower on J Street, for years both have been
trying to gather up pre-lease interest but currently don’t have enough interest
to even begin the entitlement process. Obviously, neither proposal has reach the
point where they want to spend money applying and for city entitlements to
build. There are a half dozen residential high-rise proposals just sitting out
there with entitlements but the cost to build is to high and won’t balance out.
David Taylor is the city’s most experience high-rise builder with five completed
projects. If he can’t make the numbers work, it probably won’t happen.

[Majin]

The market is strong enough to support a highrise hotel/condo project 1 block over, a highrise (11 stories) about a mile away, a 8 floor project about a mile away, but somehow the market is only able to support a 5 floor project on capitol mall?

Just because there are no developers stepping up for that particular project doesn't mean it can't be supported (sounds like your only data point) when there are lot of other data points (Year over year rent increases, population growth, other projects under construction) point in another direction.

[snfenoc]

Originally Posted by SacTownAndy

So if I understand the article correctly, the city council agenda item is to approve/deny a modification request from Shorenstein. The original land transfer deal back in 2002 from the City to Taylor (seller) required three possibilities for the site: "400-foot-tall mixed-use building of 25 floors, a 500-room hotel or 300-unit residential project, or a 65,000-square-foot entertainment or retail development."

So in order to only build 5 stories, they need to get approval from the city to modify the original land transfer deal. And the Economic Development Dept is recommending the council approve the request.

Yes, I think you've summarized it well.

At this point, there doesn't seem to be a concrete proposal - no drawings, nothing submitted beyond this request to change the scope. Also, approval of this agenda item would not preclude Shorenstein, the soon-to-be new owner, from building something taller than a 5-story, 150-unit residential building. (They could build a combination of office, hotel and/or residential.) So there's some hope.

Having said that, it does not look good. According to the developer:

Shorenstein prefers to build a mid-rise residential project of approximately 150 units, indicating that this type of development is more commercially feasible at this time...

Also, according to the city's Economic Development Project Manager:

It is envisioned that this modification to the Scope of Development ... might allow development to occur sooner than waiting for the project economics to justify the costs of a high-rise project...

In other words, we're gonna have to take what we can get. Otherwise, we could be waiting another 15 years.

It's sad that, if built, this could be the shortest building on Crapitol Mall. Construction prices have gotten so far out of hand, that Sacramento's grand boulevard may only see mid rise development in the near future. Additionally, I am especially disheartened because there are so many undeveloped or underdeveloped lots in Midtown that would benefit from mid rise, mixed-use residential buildings - it seems like such a waste of prime land.

[snfenoc]

Originally Posted by Majin

The market is strong enough to support a highrise hotel/condo project 1 block over, a highrise (11 stories) about a mile away, a 8 floor project about a mile away, but somehow the market is only able to support a 5 floor project on capitol mall?

Just because there are no developers stepping up for that particular project doesn't mean it can't be supported (sounds like your only data point) when there are lot of other data points (Year over year rent increases, population growth, other projects under construction) point in another direction.

What about the year-over-year cost of construction? I'm thinking the cost to build a 25-story high rise in California is astronomical...and rising.

Regarding your comparables:

• The Sawyer is mired in construction liens right now. Also, I'm not sure if any of the 45 "Residences at the Sawyer" have even been delivered yet. Last time I checked, the units had not been finished and only the penthouse units were sold out. (There were, still, quite a few standard units for sale.) Do you really consider "The Residences at the Sawyer" a success? Additionally, "The Residences at the Sawyer" represents only a fraction (the top few floors) of a 16-story building that contains hundreds of hotel rooms, a bowling alley, restaurants, and other businesses. Oh yeah, I would be remiss if I did not beat this dead horse: The Sawyer is only a fraction of a larger project (DOCO) that has received hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies. Given all that, how does the "Residences at The Sawyer" compare to a standalone, non-subsidized building that would contain more than 3 times the number of residential units?
  
  By the way, The Sawyer is 🞵🞵🞵🞵-ugly. There...I said it.

• The 11-story project (I assume you mean Mohanna's 19J?) has managed to erect two floors in four months. I'm not saying it's in trouble, but I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the height in half. Something ain't right about 19J - Mohanna may be in over her head. Also, 19J is geared toward a high volume, lower income model. I'm betting 601 CM is taking a market rate and/or luxury approach.

• The 8-story project (I assume you mean 1430 Q Street) will have about 75 residential units. (The developer for 601 CM wants to build 150 residential units.) It's also using a new type of wood construction that costs less and allows the builder to go higher than a standard wood frame.

• Also, it seems like both 19J and 1430Q have tiny footprints when compared to 601 CM. On Google maps, it looks like they each take about 1/8 of their respective blocks. 601 CM, on the other hand, takes up at least 1/3 of its block. 19J and 1430Q have to build up. Conversely, 601 CM can spread things out.

[ltsmotorsport]

I think Shorenstein is just looking for a quick profit instead of waiting for a something better to come available. Especially bad from an out-of-town developer who doesn't seem to appreciate the significance of the location. I agree with Majin that a parking lot that is easy to redevelop is better than a mediocre building that will be there for 50+ years. Nor real reason to rush this site except for $$$ or a good project.