PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly

I'd love to see a 700' + building on North Broad. It would totally redefine the skyline and bring some great symmetry to the view from the Art Museum steps.

Your idea makes perfect sense!
Having a new neighborhood of skyscrapers up to Spring Garden Street would work!

You could also have some supertall towers to the east stretching to I95 as well.

[JurassicPhilly]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

Your idea makes perfect sense!
Having a new neighborhood of skyscrapers up to Spring Garden Street would work!

You could also have some supertall towers to the east stretching to I95 as well.

Yeah I'd almost rather see a skyscraper on North Broad than on Market East, though I know that opinion may get me tarred and feathered....

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly

Yeah I'd almost rather see a skyscraper on North Broad than on Market East, though I know that opinion may get me tarred and feathered....

I highly agree. North Broad development needs a shot of steroids.

[JurassicPhilly]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I highly agree. North Broad development needs a shot of steroids.

Can you imagine how awesome something like the Bell Atlantic tower or Liberty 1 would look on North Broad? It would transform the city. As for Market East, I've always thought a formal garden - like a mini Longwood - would be preferable to skyscrapers. Call it like Independence Garden or something. It would be world famous! But I know it's impossible given the availability, cost etc.

[R5Ryder]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

best I can tell they haven't used the lower concourse since the 90s, not sure that matters

it doesn't get used for large events today


as a side note AT&T has the largest crush load capacity of any HR station in the US when upper and lower are used. I believe by design can load 40K people in 30 minutes

I’ve never seen the lower ones used, and I’ve gone to roughly 6 million events down there since late 90s.

I don’t even know how you would access the lower concourse, or how the trains even use both it and the upper -wouldn’t the lower have to merge with the same tracks the upper is using?

[nimshady]

I was at the Eagles vs Cowboys game this year around new years and they used the lower concourse going to the game but not leaving the game.

[Urbanthusiat]

We reeeeaally need to find a way to get the transportation thread pinned to the city compilation page. I’d love to have a space dedicated to talking about transportation issues that is easily accessed via the main page people visit.

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

We reeeeaally need to find a way to get the transportation thread pinned to the city compilation page. I’d love to have a space dedicated to talking about transportation issues that is easily accessed via the main page people visit.

Is there a region tag setting or something in the forum settings that the moderators have access to?

[JohnIII]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I believe the route he's suggesting was part of the original 1919 subway plan. You are right in saying that it would be very expensive, but I believe that if SEPTA could prove that the ridership would be justified, they could snag a nice big grant from the federal or state government (less so state. Harrisburg seems to hate SEPTA).
Because the lower level of Pattison is deep, I wonder if this would help with the costs of tunneling below the Deleware?

You are absolutely right; I did get my idea from an earlier 1919 proposal; I actually have a huge book in my possession with the original plans. The most of digging under the Delaware River wouldn't be cheap however it would also be offset by Federal funds; Pennsylvania and New Jersey funds so it wouldn't all fall on SEPTA. Such a extension to the Broad Street Line into Jersey would go straight down Red Bank Avenue and it would probably have something to do with PATCO.

In the days when the original idea was talked about the Broad Street Line ended at Broad and Synder; much of what was below Oregon Avenue was marsh; the Reserve Basin in the Navy Yard was the back channel and you didn't have Roosevelt Park; remember this was before Municipal Stadium or those parks were built; but they were talked about because the 1926 Celebrations were coming up; the 150th anniversary of the nation so some of the work was planned even then; stuff we only have to modify now; not start from scratch which is why the Broad Street Line added Oregon and Pattison Avenue stations later; it was easier; it was already thought out.

[JohnIII]

Originally Posted by JurassicPhilly

I'd love to see a 700' + building on North Broad. It would totally redefine the skyline and bring some great symmetry to the view from the Art Museum steps.

I agree with you; it would be real cool to see something 700' to 750' on North Broad Street of maybe Delaware and Spring Garden to.

But if something goes on North Broad Street over 700' where would it go; maybe between Broad and 13th Street between Noble and Buttonwood maybe.

This city has so much potential; so much.

[PhilliesPhan]

Since we're on the topic of BSL extensions, I've always wondered why the powers to be have never really mentioned extending it north of Olney TC. I am confident that an extension to Cheltenham-Ogontz would garner more ridership than an extension to the Navy Yard (which should still happen!). There is already an existing flying junction north of Olney Avenue, so an extension would be as simple as a two-track line running up North Broad (station at Champlost Avenue), northwest along Stenton Avenue (station at Chelten Avenue), and north along Ogontz Avenue (stations at Wyncote Avenue, 72nd Avenue, and Washington Lane before reaching Cheltenham-Ogontz) would be really simple. Local BSL trains could north of Olney TC, and both express and Broad-Ridge Spur trains could run out of Fern Rock TC. Cheltenham-Ogontz could become a major transportation center with a large parking garage, which could help to alleviate traffic on PA 309.

Also, the Chestnut Hill East should be converted into a BSL train. Since a flying junction currently exists at Erie, a short tunnel under Germantown Avenue with stops at Nicetown and Wayne Junction is all that would be required. The CHE Line serves denser areas of the Northwest along a route that has a lot of sharp curves. I believe that a rapid transit line could serve that area better, providing more frequent service to Germantown (near Germantown and Chelten), Mount Airy, and Chestnut Hill. Such a train could run from Chestnut Hill East to Walnut-Locust, making a local stop at Allegheny before switching to the express track and stopping at North Philadelphia.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Also, the Chestnut Hill East should be converted into a BSL train. Since a flying junction currently exists at Erie, a short tunnel under Germantown Avenue with stops at Nicetown and Wayne Junction is all that would be required. The CHE Line serves denser areas of the Northwest along a route that has a lot of sharp curves. I believe that a rapid transit line could serve that area better, providing more frequent service to Germantown (near Germantown and Chelten), Mount Airy, and Chestnut Hill. Such a train could run from Chestnut Hill East to Walnut-Locust, making a local stop at Allegheny before switching to the express track and stopping at North Philadelphia.

The Chestnut Hill West line was actually supposed to connect with the BSL, essentially becoming the Northwest branch. Don't know why that plan died, seems like there wouldn't be that much expense or infrastructure to deal with. Trains are of the same gauge track, might just be a problem of switching power from overhead to 3rd rail, but that doesn't seem insurmountable.

[R5Ryder]

Originally Posted by nimshady

I was at the Eagles vs Cowboys game this year around new years and they used the lower concourse going to the game but not leaving the game.

How does that even work? Does the track go on an incline as it heads north so it rejoins the main one? It would be great if they could use one for express and one for local rather than relying on a septa guy to just scream that the next train is one or the other all on the top platform.

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by R5Ryder

How does that even work? Does the track go on an incline as it heads north so it rejoins the main one? It would be great if they could use one for express and one for local rather than relying on a septa guy to just scream that the next train is one or the other all on the top platform.

After Oregon there are a few switches that branch off and lead downgrade to the lower platforms.

It makes sense they'd use them coming but not leaving. As mentioned Septa can stack 4-6 train sets on the upper level so they can fill up and send out trains pretty quickly. But coming down, they need to get the trainset out of the station otherwise there is a log jam of first in/last out.

[nimshady]

Originally Posted by R5Ryder

How does that even work? Does the track go on an incline as it heads north so it rejoins the main one? It would be great if they could use one for express and one for local rather than relying on a septa guy to just scream that the next train is one or the other all on the top platform.

It was a sports special express. It was a crowded train and I wasn't specifically looking out the window since you can't see much past Walnut Locust. However I did notice it looked different as we approached AT&T. There was a track to the right of us (Facing south) That had a stationary train, lots of graffiti in the tunnel that looked very dated. The platform itself was fine and just an extra flight of stairs.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by nimshady

It was a sports special express. It was a crowded train and I wasn't specifically looking out the window since you can't see much past Walnut Locust. However I did notice it looked different as we approached AT&T. There was a track to the right of us (Facing south) That had a stationary train, lots of graffiti in the tunnel that looked very dated. The platform itself was fine and just an extra flight of stairs.

I didn't realize this was still used I do know they at times store tracks down there. and on slow approach to AT&T you can see where the split is to go down on the tracks


all that said I still have trouble with the financial spend/value of the BL extension to the NY let lone all the way into NJ

[Philly-Drew]

Isn’t there a thread for Philadelphia transportation which would be a more appropriate place for the discussion regarding extending the BSL?

I enjoy the conversation for sure, but instead of a high rise development thread, I’d rather see the transportation thread get the discussion it deserves. Plus it makes it easier to search for the information down the road in the future.

It would be good that if the Philly transportation thread is still active, make it searchable when searching for Philadelphia construction threads. It would be easier for us to locate the thread and thus add content to it.

[R5Ryder]

EDIT: nevermind, found the thread...

[mcgrath618]

Here's a project that seems to have gone under the radar:
http://www.is-architects.com/the-granary/8fzakxri8a8vnjq5sok2l9osq70ygh
They've already started working on it. Not sure about exact height, but the website has it just under the society hill towers, which would put it around 280'! Props to them for taking a really undesirable building and making it into something new.

[mcgrath618]

Should be noted that when I say they've begun work, I don't know for sure if that is what this is for. The building currently has scaffolding and construction equipment everywhere, and it seems they've been gutting the building for about a year now. Hopefully this is what that is all for.