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  #2541  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
I do think that anything along 56th for Elitch's might be a non-starter as they would be opening themselves up to holy hell from the yuppies moving to north Stapleton in droves. Yuppies with lot's of disposable income, lawyers, and a very strong desire to preserve their neighborhood.
And these same yuppies have an extra chip on their shoulder because they couldn't afford a real yuppie neighborhood like Wash Park or Bonnie Brae and had to move to Stapleton.
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  #2542  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 4:17 PM
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And these same yuppies have an extra chip on their shoulder because they couldn't afford a real yuppie neighborhood like Wash Park or Bonnie Brae and had to move to Stapleton.
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Originally Posted by wong21fr
I do think that anything along 56th for Elitch's might be a non-starter as they would be opening themselves up to holy hell from the yuppies moving to north Stapleton in droves. Yuppies with lot's of disposable income, lawyers, and a very strong desire to preserve their neighborhood.
Hey! I resemble that remark! (moving to Beeler Park right next to DSGP)
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  #2543  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 7:25 PM
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Driving home yesterday I noticed there is fencing and signs up for the Broadway Station development at Broadway & Mississippi. Any news on the construction timeline? It's an ambitious plan that would really transform that whole area.

From their website:




http://www.broadwaystation.com/site-vision.html
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  #2544  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 9:06 PM
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  #2545  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
Driving home yesterday I noticed there is fencing and signs up for the Broadway Station development at Broadway & Mississippi. Any news on the construction timeline?
Why were you driving? Didn't you see the light rail there? Earth-hater.

I'm pretty excited for this one... Such a hole in such a desirable location...
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  #2546  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jbssfelix View Post
Hey! I resemble that remark! (moving to Beeler Park right next to DSGP)
lol! I'm old-school, south side Stapleton, so I'm legit! My trees are as tall as my house

Seems to me that huge amusement parks really need to be more on the outskirts of the city with easy freeway access.
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  #2547  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 9:31 PM
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I went to Senor Bear last weekend (highly recommend) and noticed Alexan LoHi looks almost finished. Evidently the retail will include a Method Roasters coffee shop, a cocktail bar called Lady Jane (from the owners of Hudson Hill in Capitol Hill) and a tacos & tequila restaurant called Bartaco.



https://denver.eater.com/2018/3/14/17120680/method-coffee-bartaco-lady-jane-lohi-denver
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  #2548  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 10:01 PM
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lol! I'm old-school, south side Stapleton, so I'm legit! My trees are as tall as my house
Psh, I don't even have trees, much less tall ones. Heck...I don't even have a full set of windows!

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  #2549  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 10:38 PM
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I think Elitches is just fine where it is-its mostly in a flood plain anyway plus it makes an added unique attraction to downtown-build on those unused parking lots as been proposed to have it go to the suburbs will just add to the sprawl and that's selfish IMO..
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  #2550  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
I went to Senor Bear last weekend (highly recommend) and noticed Alexan LoHi looks almost finished. Evidently the retail will include a Method Roasters coffee shop, a cocktail bar called Lady Jane (from the owners of Hudson Hill in Capitol Hill) and a tacos & tequila restaurant called Bartaco.



https://denver.eater.com/2018/3/14/17120680/method-coffee-bartaco-lady-jane-lohi-denver
That's probably the best looking of the Denver Alexans. Not nearly as container-ship looking as some of the others.
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  #2551  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 1:13 AM
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That Broadway Station/Gates development looks great!!!
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  #2552  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 1:18 AM
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That's probably the best looking of the Denver Alexans. Not nearly as container-ship looking as some of the others.
Largely recessed balconies always make a building look better; they are nicer for the tenant as well. They also added other architectural touches.

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Originally Posted by CastleScott View Post
I think Elitches is just fine where it is-its mostly in a flood plain anyway plus it makes an added unique attraction to downtown-build on those unused parking lots as been proposed to have it go to the suburbs will just add to the sprawl and that's selfish IMO..
I've got Josh Kroenke liking the idea of buying out Revesco once phase one, the redevelopment of the parking area, is finished and dedicating Elitch Gardens to his dad's memory. The biggest question is whether to use his formal name or nickname and just call it: Silent Stan's Elitch Gardens - forever preserved for the families of Denver.
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  #2553  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 3:18 AM
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That TOD of Broadway Station/Gates is really looking impressive-that could turnout to be the densest TOD in the metro..
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  #2554  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert.hampton View Post
If you have nostalgia about Elitch's being downtown you weren't here for long anyways.
Yeah only 40 years. Barely enough time to leave and figure out that the City other than laudable efforts to increase some transit (which they did mostly mediocre jobs of at that), doesn't do anything to actually address the problems it has. You're still headed toward museum city status where literally no one but the rich can own anything anywhere near downtown. I remember when Elich's moved from it's first location and that definitely sucked. It had a chance to reestablish itself in a new location and for a while was looking like it would do a good job of it. Now you're moving it yet again, which is a waste of time. Might as well kill it then try to pretend you actually care about its historic value to Denver.

Besides most of you commenting on how it should be moved include putting it out of town in the 'burbs "like every other city".

Might as well make that Denver's new motto "Denver - like every other city" .
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  #2555  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brainpathology View Post
Yeah only 40 years. Barely enough time to leave and figure out that the City other than laudable efforts to increase some transit (which they did mostly mediocre jobs of at that), doesn't do anything to actually address the problems it has. You're still headed toward museum city status where literally no one but the rich can own anything anywhere near downtown. I remember when Elich's moved from it's first location and that definitely sucked. It had a chance to reestablish itself in a new location and for a while was looking like it would do a good job of it. Now you're moving it yet again, which is a waste of time. Might as well kill it then try to pretend you actually care about its historic value to Denver.

Besides most of you commenting on how it should be moved include putting it out of town in the 'burbs "like every other city".

Might as well make that Denver's new motto "Denver - like every other city" .

We will just have to agree to disagree on the importance of a 20 year-old amusement park downtown to the cultural/civic/urbane identity of Denver. The good news is you apparently now live in Orlando, where no one will dispute the overwhelming key role of amusement parks in the identity of the City!
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  #2556  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Brainpathology View Post
Yeah only 40 years. Barely enough time to leave and figure out that the City other than laudable efforts to increase some transit (which they did mostly mediocre jobs of at that), doesn't do anything to actually address the problems it has. You're still headed toward museum city status where literally no one but the rich can own anything anywhere near downtown. I remember when Elich's moved from it's first location and that definitely sucked. It had a chance to reestablish itself in a new location and for a while was looking like it would do a good job of it. Now you're moving it yet again, which is a waste of time. Might as well kill it then try to pretend you actually care about its historic value to Denver.

Besides most of you commenting on how it should be moved include putting it out of town in the 'burbs "like every other city".

Might as well make that Denver's new motto "Denver - like every other city" .
Look, I get it. You drive into the city at night and see the Ferris wheel lit up, along with the roller coasters, and the observation tower. It gives you that warm fuzzy feeling of knowing there's an amusement park right up against a city skyline. Like something out of SimCity. It gives you this feel of "Yeah, that's something you don't see in any other American city, which makes us exemplary!"

But....... let's be real here. This is an amusement park that has only been there for 20 years. That's not historic in my opinion. Let's also remember this is something that is only used a fraction of the time (<50%). Even when the park is open, the land is only used while the park is operating. As soon as it closes, people leave and go home. The rest of the year it's essentially a large piece of art work for the city to look at. This is NOT a good use of this land, especially given it's location and proximity to the CBD and Union Station. From what was posted over on Denver Infill, this was never the original planned use of this land anyways. It was simply a catalyst in the 90s to jump start the downtown Renaissance the city so desperately needed at the time.

It's also worth noting it will probably be several years yet before any piece of the park actually moves. As described in the River Mile project, they want to consolidate the sprawling parking lot into a large parking ramp to serve the amusement park. Beyond that, they could easily do the same with the other monstrosity lots serving Auroria and the Pepsi Center. This opens up a TON of land that will take a long time to fully build out and up. I would wager it would still take a long time, even if Amazon announces they are coming to Denver.

I totally understand why people love having Elitch's down by downtown, etc, etc, but from an urban planning prospective, it's increasingly becoming an inefficient use of land. And every time a parking lot in downtown gets developed upon, this argument gains more and more traction.
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  #2557  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 4:57 PM
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While I share the nostalgia for Elitch's (I grew up in the 90s and only remember going to the old location once), and still enjoy seeing the lights of the amusement park on the skyline, exactly as twister244 describes, but I think everybody needs to stop and actually consider the economics for a second.

Many American amusement parks are significantly bigger, and charge less per-day. Worlds of Fun on the outskirts of KC is over 200 acres, and Elitch's less than 100; and attendance at the bigger parks dwarfs Elitch's. Then factor in land value, property tax, and the profit potential of redevelopment, and it doesn't take an economics major to figure out that a larger park on cheaper land will be more profitable. On the outskirts, a company can also secure much more land than they need on day one, and slowly grow and make investments over time. Why would the owners put money into a major new attraction at Elitch's? And where would it even go? It needs like 5 new roller coasters to remain viable in the long-term.

That's not to say that there isn't a different kind of value - a cultural value. But I feel like this is a public-realm kind of question. If there is a desire to permanently lock up recreational space in the center of the city, that strikes me as the role of the Parks Department. Central Park in NYC must have astronomical development value - but it also adds value to everybody else's property, and is permanently locked-up as a public asset. Many parks have carousels - some parks in Europe even support additional amusement park-style attractions. But I don't think we can really get upset when a for-profit landowner and operator decides they could be doing something different with the land (or operate that particular business more profitably in a different location). If the community feels strongly that Elitch's heritage deserves to remain, either with rides, gardens, or both, I think that's probably something the city will need to be willing to provide land for and support. Hence why I've been asking about the greenway and long-term plans for parkland in the area.

I also question the claim that suburban locations drive sprawl - amusement parks are a bit of an isolated thing... there is usually no more than one major one in a given city, they are noisy and don't encourage housing development, and they have a captive audience so they don't encourage shopping districts nearby either (beyond what would otherwise be built anyway). They also need an excess of cheap land and parking (like 200-300 acres in total) so as not to worry about long-term (75-100 years) real estate trends that call the location into doubt. And they are like little walled cities anyway, and don't contribute much to the dynamic flow of an area. But they sure are fun!!!
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  #2558  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Brainpathology View Post
Yeah only 40 years.
How's your mom?

Last time we conversed much they were getting ready to rebuild/expand I-5; is that project completed? I can't believe Denver is still laboring to break ground on I-70 in comparison.

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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
The rest of the year it's essentially a large piece of art work for the city to look at. This is NOT a good use of this land, especially given it's location and proximity to the CBD and Union Station. From what was posted over on Denver Infill, this was never the original planned use of this land anyways. It was simply a catalyst in the 90s to jump start the downtown Renaissance the city so desperately needed at the time.
It's not the highest and best use from a real estate perspective certainly but then neither is city park. Should we start planning for how amazing that site could look covered with skyscrapers? Who needs the most popular venue in the zoo and a silly science museum so close to downtown when it could be covered over with condo towers?

It's not the worst thing to have a small slice on the edge of downtown that is notable as a family-friendly venue (not sports related), unless you assume the people of Denver will become robots and stop propagating? While maybe not the highest and best use it is indeed an artful, kid-oriented venue that could maintain the cherry-on-top uniqueness of Denver. Just sayin'

At least for the next 15-20 years I'll be content that Denver still has Elitch Gardens.
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  #2559  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 6:40 PM
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Beyond that, they could easily do the same with the other monstrosity lots serving Auroria and the Pepsi Center. This opens up a TON of land that will take a long time to fully build out and up.
The ownership is not the same ofc.

For a hint on what might become of the Pepsi Center site we could look to the redevelopment of Hollywood Park.


Rendering courtesy HKS Architects

That artful piece in the background is Silent Stan's $2.6 billion private contribution and centerpiece to a 260-acre mixed-use community that is being developed by Wilson Meany and Stockbridge Capital according Urbanize LA.

CherryCreek has previously raised a very good point. KSE, may at some point, wish to build a whole new arena. They certainly have plenty of land on their site which could then become a centerpiece for additional mixed use development. While Denver is not Brooklyn, the Barclay's Center could also provide potential clues.


Photo image courtesy Barclay's Center

Which is your preference?
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  #2560  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
The ownership is not the same ofc.

For a hint on what might become of the Pepsi Center site we could look to the redevelopment of Hollywood Park.

Rendering courtesy HKS Architects

That artful piece in the background is Silent Stan's $2.6 billion private contribution and centerpiece to a 260-acre mixed-use community that is being developed by Wilson Meany and Stockbridge Capital according Urbanize LA.

CherryCreek has previously raised a very good point. KSE, may at some point, wish to build a whole new arena. They certainly have plenty of land on their site which could then become a centerpiece for additional mixed use development. While Denver is not Brooklyn, the Barclay's Center could also provide potential clues.


Photo image courtesy Barclay's Center

Which is your preference?
Those are great arenas and that's clearly the trend in arena construction - building multi use developments and entertainment centers instead of a single bland arena or stadium (Pepsi Center was always a disappointment to me with its pink stucco and generic look).

The huge developments planned near Coors Field and Mile-Hi plan to retro-fit those developments to reflect this trend. The Pepsi Center/Elitch's land combo has great potential for something very special, even if it takes 20 years to fully realize that (though we thought Union Station might take a similar period to become fully realized and it went much quicker).
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