TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

Oh yea, if northland railway can be revived between Geraldton and Constance Lake (which requires putting the tracks back first), expanded along the entire length of Highway 17, and is willing to operate as a ferry for cars (passenger and commercial vehicles) during highway closures, that will be great.

2 years ago, it perplexed me as to why train ferries for cars weren't a thing when Nipigon Bridge broke.

Ps: Last April, when I drove down the entire length of 17, IIRC, to my disappointment I did not see a single train for 2 days. If the CNR (or CPR?) isn't even that busy, MTO might as well negotiate to put Northland transit on those tracks too, especially when such service is needed. Ideally, it only needs to pay whoever owns those tracks per usage.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Oh yea, if northland railway can be revived between Geraldton and Constance Lake (which requires putting the tracks back first), expanded along the entire length of Highway 17, and is willing to operate as a ferry for cars (passenger and commercial vehicles) during highway closures, that will be great.

2 years ago, it perplexed me as to why train ferries for cars weren't a thing when Nipigon Bridge broke.

Ps: Last April, when I drove down the entire length of 17, IIRC, to my disappointment I did not see a single train for 2 days. If the CNR (or CPR?) isn't even that busy, MTO might as well negotiate to put Northland transit on those tracks too, especially when such service is needed. Ideally, it only needs to pay whoever owns those tracks per usage.

I feel if we had all of our cities connected by passenger rail running on a regular schedule that was adhered to, people could simply leave the car at home.

[Dengler Avenue]

Concern of the night: Is there possibility that work on the Nipigon Bridge might be stopped if any party other than the liberals is elected? (I wish it were ready for use by the end of 2017.)

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Concern of the night: Is there possibility that work on the Nipigon Bridge might be stopped if any party other than the liberals is elected? (I wish it were ready for use by the end of 2017.)

I doubt it. The project is too far along to halt it now. Such a cancellation would likely trigger all sorts of termination of contract clauses, which would probably cost more than completing the bridge.

[vid]

While the actual design of the bridge is considered unnecessary waste by the local electorate, the existence of it has been fervently demanded for years, and with the structure fault two years ago, the demand for an alternate bridge is pretty strong. If Ford even thinks of cancelling that bridge, he's lost this region. I don't think he'll do it. The mayor of Nipigon is a big PC/Conservative supporter, so he's definitely got an inside line to the party and they know that that bridge can't be cancelled. It would be more politically disastrous than when the PCs cancelled the highway projects in Thunder Bay in 1996.

So don't worry, it's going to happen. I'd guess that Doug Ford would actually be more likely to spend money on it, since that area is pretty likely to support him. TB-Superior North voted for Ford in the leadership election. (TB-Atikokan voted for Elliot.)

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by vid

While the actual design of the bridge is considered unnecessary waste by the local electorate, the existence of it has been fervently demanded for years, and with the structure fault two years ago, the demand for an alternate bridge is pretty strong. If Ford even thinks of cancelling that bridge, he's lost this region. I don't think he'll do it. The mayor of Nipigon is a big PC/Conservative supporter, so he's definitely got an inside line to the party and they know that that bridge can't be cancelled. It would be more politically disastrous than when the PCs cancelled the highway projects in Thunder Bay in 1996.

So don't worry, it's going to happen. I'd guess that Doug Ford would actually be more likely to spend money on it, since that area is pretty likely to support him. TB-Superior North voted for Ford in the leadership election. (TB-Atikokan voted for Elliot.)

If Ford Nation does become the premier, I can even envision freeways in T Bay and even as far out as Kakabeka Falls.
Update: Actually, I don't know anymore, after reading your comment in the election thread.

Thanks for the assurance though. Y'all know by now that I came to SSP just to check out infrastructural improvements.

[Dengler Avenue]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=8133555&posted=1#post8133555 # 3761

So there was indeed a detailed design paper of widening 17 between MB/ON Boundary and 15 km in.

It's a bummer though that the would-have-been highway won't be controlled-access.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=8133555&posted=1#post8133555 # 3761

So there was indeed a detailed design paper of widening 17 between MB/ON Boundary and 15 km in.

It's a bummer though that the would-have-been highway won't be controlled-access.

During the environmental assessments phase for this project, the Shoal Lake First Nation, which lies to the south of this project, requested a bump up (Part II order) from the Minister. Bump up requests can be challenging to mitigate, particularly given the sensitive relationship between the province and various first nations groups.

Although it hasn't been publicized as such, I suspect that the bump request is the driving force behind the construction of "Freedom Road" to another section of the Shoal Lake FN community in Manitoba that was severed from the mainland nearly a century ago during the construction of an aqueduct for Winnipeg.

I suspect the provincial government was indeed serious in its desire to twin this section of highway, but still haven't yet got the political capital to satisfy the demands of the neighbouring first nations community in order to finish the study, let alone get shovels into the ground.

[Dengler Avenue]

Would the FN's have reacted the same way if the decision was to construct a new 4-lane divided controlled-access freeway from border to Kenora Bypass though? I wonder.

[sonysnob]

^ I suppose it is impossible to know that, but I suspect the actual design of the highway had very little if anything to do with Shoal Lake's decision to bump up the EA. Highway expansion projects are often used as bargaining chips for First Nations communities to negotiate with the government. I suspect that's what has happened here.

From a design standpoint, what was proposed was pretty reasonable and emulated several prairie highway twinning projects. If anything a more sophisticated design could have even had more implications to the first nation and their treaty rights.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

^ I suppose it is impossible to know that, but I suspect the actual design of the highway had very little if anything to do with Shoal Lake's decision to bump up the EA. Highway expansion projects are often used as bargaining chips for First Nations communities to negotiate with the government. I suspect that's what has happened here.

From a design standpoint, what was proposed was pretty reasonable and emulated several prairie highway twinning projects. If anything a more sophisticated design could have even had more implications to the first nation and their treaty rights.

Now we know what to expect from Batchawana (Rankins 15D), Garden River, Missisauga (at Blind River), and Serpent River FN's.

[Loco101]

There is nothing new about that and the government knows that negotiations have to take place. I've seen evidence of where the settlement money have really helped First Nations in terms of standard of living and infrastructure.

Sure it's annoying that highway projects take longer to complete but it's the right thing to do. People living on reserves also want safer and better highways.

[Dengler Avenue]

http://www.saultstar.com/2018/04/06/mto-denies-city-black-road-funding---again
As the title says.
Uh oh...

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

http://www.saultstar.com/2018/04/06/mto-denies-city-black-road-funding---again
As the title says.
Uh oh...

Roadwork in Timmins is definitely much more of a priority than in the Sault. Hwy 101 connecting link in Timmins is over 20km long and in terrible shape with some of the pavement being over 30 years old. However, a full bypass needs to be built around the Sault.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Roadwork in Timmins is definitely much more of a priority than in the Sault. Hwy 101 connecting link in Timmins is over 20km long and in terrible shape with some of the pavement being over 30 years old. However, a full bypass needs to be built around the Sault.

But lets forget about all the new highways being built in the GTA and the rest of southern Ontario.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

But lets forget about all the new highways being built in the GTA and the rest of southern Ontario.

Last time stuck in a traffic jam:
northern ontario = never (well unless it was a moose sighting)
southern ontario = daily occurrence

Population trends - where are people moving:
northern ontario = migration out
southern ontario = population growth

Don't get me started on where taxes and licensing fees come from.

While I'm all for twinning the full TCH - right now, its not a priority and the projects around the GTA are long overdue and absolutely needed to meet current demands (let alone future).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Last time stuck in a traffic jam:
northern ontario = never (well unless it was a moose sighting)
southern ontario = daily occurrence

Population trends - where are people moving:
northern ontario = migration out
southern ontario = population growth

Don't get me started on where taxes and licensing fees come from.

While I'm all for twinning the full TCH - right now, its not a priority and the projects around the GTA are long overdue and absolutely needed to meet current demands (let alone future).

Highway 400 got closed due to a pile up last week.

Highway 11, 144, 17 and 69 were also closed due to a 2 vehicle crash.....

When was the last time the ONLY route between 2 major centres were close?

Up here, if a major highway closes, the detour can be a long distance around to the other side.

[Dengler Avenue]

Let’s try listing out all arguments against and for prioritizing twinning TCH, shall we?
Here’s what I can think of:
Against:
Low AADT (i.e. SSM to Nipigon, Shabaqua Corners to Ignace)
Consistently rugged terrain (Lake Superior Shore, in particular)
Lengthy negotiations with FN
Long highway (1854 km in particular from Arnprior to Whiteshell, MB, after accounting for all the 4-lane segments)

For:
Usually unreasonable detour (if there’s any at all)
Risk of head-on collision very high (although IMO such is the common problem with all 2-lane highways, in which case Highway 3 and Highway 9 sit on top of the list)
Risk of collision with animal very high (really, not so much down south)
Very prone to closure due to weather (402’s closed every now and then because of that, but 401? Not that I know of since the carnage of 1994)
Can bring back cross-country traffic that would have otherwise gone through the states (You guys have been telling me again and again that number isn’t high so the effort might not be worthwhile)
Can reroute cross-country traffic off 401 (Hmm, what about this one?)

From I can think of, twinning TCH is more for a federal than provincial purpose. Well, if the Feds aren’t going to help, the hope to have it twinned before 2062 (a century after the missing link was built) is quite bleak...

Also, IMO, to keep people staying in the north, we probably need to get some tech hubs (yes, you hear me right) started at, say, Dryden, T Bay, Timmins, SSM, Sudbury and keep the small businesses in N Bay alive. Primary services won’t last in the long term. (For example, when mines run out at Timmins, the city’s gone too.) Oh strong educational centres help too. After all, the more diversified the jobs, the better.

[Dengler Avenue]

Also, for the record, going from 2 to 4 is very different from going from 4 to 6. I just feel that road fatalities are generally higher in the north than in the south (although the latter has seen some bad ones recently too).
Overall if twinning these important rural highways means preventing grief, sure why not? Just take a loan from the infrastructure bank or do PPP.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Last time stuck in a traffic jam:
northern ontario = never (well unless it was a moose sighting)
southern ontario = daily occurrence

My city was literally disconnected from Eastern Canada for a week two years ago. People were stranged on the other side of a bridge from their homes and had no way of getting home.

When's the last time that happened in Toronto? When is the last time Toronto was 100% separated from the country, and people got stranded outside of the city for days because there was literally no route to enter the city?