Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Radster

This works in LRT, as long as the hooks are right by the door, like shown a few pages back in Portland, Oregon. And I have seen this work first hand, even used the hooks for my bike in rush hour afternoon commute last summer, no issues at all, and it was crowded, and I was with my gf and my 9 month baby and a second bike with baby seat.

The Portland LRT isn't really compatible to the Confederation Line in terms of ridership (or likely crowding).

[rocketphish]

LRT consortium won't take blame for Rideau Street sinkhole
Rideau Transit Group says it's not responsible for 2016 sinkhole that caused 6-month delay, cost city $10M

By Joanne Chianello, CBC News
Posted: Mar 06, 2018 1:07 PM ET Last Updated: Mar 06, 2018 4:13 PM ET

The consortium building the city's $2.1-billion light rail system doesn't believe it's responsible for a sinkhole that swallowed a portion of Rideau Street in June 2016, precipitating a six-month delay of the project and costing the city an estimated $10 million.

At the first of its monthly LRT project updates Tuesday, the city's finance and economic development committee heard Rideau Transit Group (RTG) doesn't think it should pay the costs associated with the sinkhole.

RTG has submitted something called a "relief event notice" for the sinkhole, along with a corresponding "delay event notice." They indicate the consortium believes the delay was not its fault, and shouldn't have to pay associated costs.

However according to a report commissioned by the city and released last year, while the precise cause of the sinkhole wasn't clear, the dramatic event wasn't the city's fault either.

RTG is apparently disputing that finding. It has not yet filed a formal complaint under the contract's dispute resolution process, and disagreements over costs are expected to be dealt with only after the project is completed.

Mayor Jim Watson said he's still confident the city will recoup all the costs associated with the delay to the Confederation Line.

"I think that's to be expected — they'll take one position, we'll take another position," he told reporters after Tuesday's meeting.

"Obviously, we have an opinion that it's a result of RTG and they have to take that responsibility because that slowed them down and they're not meeting the date they gave us."

The city's senior staff reiterated Tuesday that it's possible cost disputes could end up in court, but because the city and RTG have a 30-year relationship — the consortium will service the LRT system for the next three decades, and build the Trillium Line extension — staff believe there is goodwill on both sides to come to a fair settlement.

The LRT was supposed to be handed over to the city on May 24, but last month the city announced a new delivery date of Nov. 2.

The city has said the delay is costing it $2 million a month in expenses for things like running detours and keeping buses — and drivers — on the road longer than expected.

On Tuesday, the committee heard that those extra costs include OC Transpo losing out on $1.6 million in additional fare revenue it was counting on once the LRT was running.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/rtg-not-pay-lrt-delays-sinkhole-1.4564015

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The Portland LRT isn't really compatible to the Confederation Line in terms of ridership (or likely crowding).

That still doesn't excuse the city for being cheap when it comes to the trains. They should have bought trains that take into account that cyclists might want to use them. The trains should have been longer and have more room for passengers.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

That still doesn't excuse the city for being cheap when it comes to the trains. They should have bought trains that take into account that cyclists might want to use them. The trains should have been longer and have more room for passengers.

We are running, by far at the moment, the largest lrv vehicles in North America. Everyone else is using 30m lrvs mostly in a 60m two vehicle combination like Portland. And the space layout is similar to MR73s on the Montreal metro. The thing about low floor is that we couldn't go to an entirely horizontal layout like Calgary's S200s where there's barely any seats but lots more standing room. It's cramped compared to the Toronto Rocket trains or the new Azur trains, but Montreal and Toronto are several times our size and bought bigger trains because they had hit the limit on their older seating layouts.

Frequency matters as much as train size. Our two vehicle trains hold almost 120 more people than Vancouver's new Mark IIIs, but we're running at an assumed 5 minute frequency versus their 1 minute 50 second frequency, which is why the sky train can move more people despite smaller trains. Adding more trains will help any overcrowding on the line

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

We are running, by far at the moment, the largest lrv vehicles in North America. Everyone else is using 30m lrvs mostly in a 60m two vehicle combination like Portland. And the space layout is similar to MR73s on the Montreal metro. The thing about low floor is that we couldn't go to an entirely horizontal layout like Calgary's S200s where there's barely any seats but lots more standing room. It's cramped compared to the Toronto Rocket trains or the new Azur trains, but Montreal and Toronto are several times our size and bought bigger trains because they had hit the limit on their older seating layouts.

Frequency matters as much as train size. Our two vehicle trains hold almost 120 more people than Vancouver's new Mark IIIs, but we're running at an assumed 5 minute frequency versus their 1 minute 50 second frequency, which is why the sky train can move more people despite smaller trains. Adding more trains will help any overcrowding on the line

We wont see added trains until stage 2 so the city is still taking a risk by being cheap and from my understanding on frequency after stage 2 is that people living in the Kanata will have to wait longer (20 min for a train) then they would for a bus currently so how is this good? Ottawa always goes with the cheapest option to the detriment of everybody so i don't expect them to add frequency whether it be trains or bus.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

We wont see added trains until stage 2 so the city is still taking a risk by being cheap and from my understanding on frequency after stage 2 is that people living in the Kanata will have to wait longer (20 min for a train) then they would for a bus currently so how is this good? Ottawa always goes with the cheapest option to the detriment of everybody so i don't expect them to add frequency whether it be trains or bus.

To quote Stephen Blais:
"its at capacity. that means its full and we aren't wasting money running empty trains."

[Aylmer]

Similarly, when buying clothes for a toddler, you should make sure it fits flush. That way, you're not wasting money on excess fabric.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Similarly, when buying clothes for a toddler, you should make sure it fits flush. That way, you're not wasting money on excess fabric.

Everything is a bit of speculation at this moment. Will the confed line really be the busiest LRT line on the continent as claimed? Busier than anything on Edmontons or Calgary's system, and busier than systems in Portland, Seattle, San Francisco or Boston which are much bigger than us (ignoring the fact Boston and San Fran also have subways). A truth about projects like this is ridership doesn't always live up to the projections. A wait and see approach is not terrible, and they did design the system with lots of room to expand, unlike short sighted projects like the Canada line.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

We wont see added trains until stage 2 so the city is still taking a risk by being cheap and from my understanding on frequency after stage 2 is that people living in the Kanata will have to wait longer (20 min for a train) then they would for a bus currently so how is this good? Ottawa always goes with the cheapest option to the detriment of everybody so i don't expect them to add frequency whether it be trains or bus.

I don't believe this to be true. I read that the initial plan was to have extra trainsets delivered within 6 months of completion of the line. I gather this build was rolled into the phase 2 order. I don't know for sure, but my assumption would be that as the stage 2 trainsets are completed, they will be available to OC Transpo if needed (once they have been paid for).

The thing about manufacturing is it is a lot cheaper to keep the line running than it is to shut it down and start it up again. By adding to an existing build instead of starting a new one, the city (and Alstom) is saving a lot of money. They will probably try to do the same thing again with stage 3. Also, if OC Transpo discoverers that they don't have enough trains, they can easily increase the size of the Stage 2 order. Once production stops, it will be much more expensive to buy more trains.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

That still doesn't excuse the city for being cheap when it comes to the trains. They should have bought trains that take into account that cyclists might want to use them. The trains should have been longer and have more room for passengers.

The problem isn't as much the trains (though they could have added bike racks at the front and back door) but the amount of trains. We would have needed enough to run trains every 2.5 minutes rush hour to allow 14,400 pphpd day one.

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

To quote Stephen Blais:
"its at capacity. that means its full and we aren't wasting money running empty trains."

Says the guy who never uses transit. What a jack 🞵🞵🞵! You don't spend 2.1 billion to upgrade a system and run the new service at the same capacity. You need enough space to allow for ridership growth. You need enough space to allow people getting on the train mid-trip (you know, like people who live in the city). You need to give people enough breathing to make sure users are more comfortable in the new system than the old one.

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Everything is a bit of speculation at this moment. Will the confed line really be the busiest LRT line on the continent as claimed? Busier than anything on Edmontons or Calgary's system, and busier than systems in Portland, Seattle, San Francisco or Boston which are much bigger than us (ignoring the fact Boston and San Fran also have subways). A truth about projects like this is ridership doesn't always live up to the projections. A wait and see approach is not terrible, and they did design the system with lots of room to expand, unlike short sighted projects like the Canada line.

I'm pretty confident it will have the Confederation will be the busiest line in North America, and maybe rank 3rd or 4th system wise.

[J.OT13]

OC Transpo's big update yesterday, I haven't seen anything beyond the media. Nothing on the City's website, nothing on the Confederation Line website, nothing on Jimmy's or OC Transpo's website. I guess now the media has sole responsibility to inform the taxpayers.

Anyway, from CTV's website;

St-Laurent



Hurdman



Hurdman



Rideau



Tunney's (an "Engineering Marvel", apparently. Because bus transfers?)



Tunnel




Parliament East Entrance



Parliament Platform



Tremblay



Pimisi Interior



More on the website.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mayor-confident-lrt-project-will-meet-november-deadline-1.3831564

[OTSkyline]

Nice.

It definitely feels like updates have tapered off in the last couple of months. We don't get updates or new pictures very frequently anymore.

It also looks like some stations are progressing much faster than others. I'm surprised Tremblay looks almost done from the exterior. I drive past OttawaU everyday and I haven't seen any progress there in months.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Nice.

It definitely feels like updates have tapered off in the last couple of months. We don't get updates or new pictures very frequently anymore.

It also looks like some stations are progressing much faster than others. I'm surprised Tremblay looks almost done from the exterior. I drive past OttawaU everyday and I haven't seen any progress there in months.

Updates and new photos are still posted every Thursday along with the occasional photos in tweets from Councillors..

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Updates and new photos are still posted every Thursday along with the occasional photos in tweets from Councillors..

The pictures in their weekly updates are pretty old though. They were still posting photos from January 18th in the latter part of February.

[J.OT13]

And they skipped a few weeks since the new year.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

A couple of uOttawa profs have proposed that many trucks could be taken off the streets and green house gas emisions by running LRT freight trains to carry goods within Ottawa.

Could the LRT help reduce greenhouse effect?

A rising trend in some countries, urban rail transit systems are an alternative to freight transport through cities.
Freight transit using existing urban railways could now be possible in Canada with some effort, according to Telfer School of Management at the University of Ottawa Professors Onur Ozturk and Jonathan Patrick. Their research shows that quality of life in cities can be improved by creating a model that helps reduce greenhouse effects, traffic congestion, and the risk of spills or serious accidents on the roads.

Their solution? The Freight on Transit (FOT) model. This system has the potential to alleviate some of the most devastating environmental challenges by reducing the number of trucks driving through our cities. During his appointment at Université Paris-Est Marne-la-Vallée, Professor Ozturk was involved in research that developed projects with industry collaborators, such as Public Transport Paris, with the purpose of creating more energy-efficient cities. They were looking for strategies that used existing transit infrastructure to move merchandise within the city. Professor Ozturk developed a framework of a decision-making model that allows the subway line to be shared between passenger trains and freight trains. A case study showed that the city reduced the number of trucks by 10,000 per year, eliminating nearly 290 tons of CO2 and 19 tons of nitrogen.

Many Canadian cities already have the necessary infrastructure in place that can be used to transport freight using railways. In fact, there is no reason why the Freight on Transit model couldn’t be implemented in Ottawa in the near future.
But who will gain from this? Reducing the number of heavy trucks circulating in our cities not only makes them cleaner, it allows us to make a safer and more efficient public transport system that benefits drivers, public transport and private freight companies, not to mention the environment.
FOT challenges like time constraints can be easily overcome with the mathematical tool Professors Ozturk and Patrick developed to update the rail schedule without creating further delays for passengers.
As for safety, just as supermarkets don’t usually allow their employees to organize products on shelves between 6 am and 9 pm, for their clients’ safety, similarly, if passengers are waiting for the train on a platform then that platform would not be used for loading freight at that time.
Imagine if systems like this were to be implemented in Ottawa, Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal, the impact it would have on reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The FOT may just be the next best thing to have environmental savings.

For media inquiries
Karyne Vienneau
Media relation officers
613-762-2908
[email protected]

[J.OT13]

Interesting image I found on Twitter. Legnth of train vs. buses seem close to scale.


https://twitter.com/CapitalCity613/status/966461310593650688

And comparison shot of Lees from Fleury (August 2017);


https://twitter.com/hashtag/ready4rail?src=hash

[J.OT13]

I'm bored...

Pimisi, February 26;




https://twitter.com/search?q=Ottawa%20LRT&src=typd

[J.OT13]

Bayview;


https://twitter.com/OttawaCitizen/status/964385138330157058

[lrt's friend]

Heaven help them. Nashville plans a downtown LRT tunnel just like ours and plans to interline trains through the tunnel. Please correct their foolishness.

And yes, the branches will join together close to downtown.