Salt Lake International Airport Development Thread - Page 39

Hatman · #**761** Posted **Feb 22, 2018, 8:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Hatman, the construction impacts on the station would last much longer than a month.

Let's not be hasty here.

Phase 1: Piles and columns
The station remains open during regular operating hours. Construction occurs only at night after the last train has left and before the first train arrives.
Phase 2: roof beams
The station closes for one week while beams are laid across the columns. The old station canopy is removed as part of this phase.
Phase 3: Concrete floor
The station remains closed for another week while steel flooring sheets are laid out, rebar is fitted, and concrete is poured. The old catenary line is replaced with a new indoor-rated system
Phase 4: Curing
One week passes for testing of the new system before passengers are allowed to use the new station.
Phase 5: Construction continues
The station reopens for business. The rest of the terminal is built up around the TRAX station. Work within a close proximity of the station is required to happen only at night when the station is closed (such as building the walls that will enclose the station) but these items are minor. All construction work above the station no longer affects the station itself since there is a concrete floor between that work and the station.

Total station closure time: 3 weeks.

I think we're both making good arguments for and against the two station alternatives, and it just comes down to a matter of preference. There really is no engineering impossibility in the construction of either a good elevated or enclosed ground-level station; it just comes down to timeline, politics, money, and preference.

I'm just excited that we're getting a better connection at all, considering all the shenanigans involved in this relocation.

Sight-Seer · #**762** Posted **Feb 23, 2018, 2:43 PM**

I'm in favor of the elevated station. There is a coolness factor that is often lacking in Salt Lake (well almost always lacking). Plus with the general resistance to public transit, the easier it is the better. Instead of making the automobile the primary focus, it should be TRAX. However, the current set of renderings show a ground-level station. It looks like it's been decided.

Stenar · #**763** Posted **Feb 23, 2018, 11:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sight-Seer

I'm in favor of the elevated station. There is a coolness factor that is often lacking in Salt Lake (well almost always lacking). Plus with the general resistance to public transit, the easier it is the better. Instead of making the automobile the primary focus, it should be TRAX. However, the current set of renderings show a ground-level station. It looks like it's been decided.

It will be a huge mistake to not build the elevated station.

Wasatch Wasteland · #**764** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 2:46 AM**

https://www.slcairport.com/thenewslc/rebuild-progress-gallery/

The orange cladding isn’t nearly as bad as it looks in the renderings. It ACTUALLY looks like copper. I suppose that was intended. Make people think it’s copper without spending ten times as much.

jubguy3 · #**765** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 5:07 AM**

I forgot to post the most recent update, so there is a lot of information for this one including 17 images.

February 21, 2018

Completed installation of all major equipment (generator, boilers, chillers, cooling towers) in the Central Utility Plant
Started framing work and external material installation on Terminal’s north side
Began utility hook up for North Concourse trailer complex

San Diego-Honolulu · #**766** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 6:49 AM**

Incredible photos, thank you for posting and sharing. There was a recent meeting with airport officials and Delta executives and a lot was talked about regarding Delta's future plans for Salt Lake City. Many great things were shared. Some things worth mentioning...

- Delta has long terms plans for Salt Lake City and it sounds like the hub will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

- The LDS church and Delta's partnership is stronger than ever. The LDS church is a great partner with Delta globally and they contribute a lot to Delta.

- The new terminal will have six gates dedicated to international arrivals (currently there are only three in the D concourse).

- International expansion is on the table. A flight to South America is desired (I personally believe that IF it is to happen Lima, Peru would be the city). It sounds like if more international expansion is to happen from Delta it will most likely have to come from Delta partners. Aeromexico and Korean Air were the two airlines specifically mentioned. Aeromexico already flies to Salt Lake City with non-stop flights to Guadalajara and Mexico City. Delta's joint venture partner KLM also flies to Salt Lake City during the summer with service to Amsterdam with 3-4 flights a week, depending on the month.

- Also non Salt Lake City related, Delta's hub in Los Angeles is performing better than ever and the new terminal relocation is paying off. There are many updates and construction projects happening in LAX and will continue for the next several years. Delta has also gained a strong market share at its Seattle hub. Lack of gates in Seattle is still a problem. It also sounds like Austin, Texas will be a city worth watching. Delta will be opening a SkyClub there in spring 2019. It will be similar to the new Delta SkyClub in Seattle in concourse A. New service from Boston, Cincinnati, and Raleigh have been added to Austin recently. Austin is a growing city and there is also a growing high value customer base in Austin. Delta's New York LaGuardia hub is in the middle of their new terminal redevelopment project. Delta is also currently working on their updates and face lift at its main hub in Atlanta.

jubguy3 · #**767** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 6:57 PM**

Lima does seem like the most likely option to me, it has the highest O/D of any city in S. America from SLC. But both major airlines headquartered there (Avianca Peru and LATAM Peru) are in Star Alliance and Oneworld, and the rest are unaffiliated. South America is a major weakness in the SkyTeam network besides Aerolineas Argentinas and the investment Delta has in GOL. I wonder if Buenos Aires would be a possibility considering that it is the hub for Aerolineas Argentinas? It is geographically more isolated, but sometimes the partnerships in airline alliances make or break a route.

As far as Seoul, I see this service being incredibly likely if the JV is approved by the South Korean Transport Ministry, and even possible if it isn't. SLC is farther to the West, and DL finally has the opportunity to establish an East Asian hub with a partner airline. I would expect it to be on KE because the smallest aircraft in both airline's fleets that can perform the flight without restrictions is KE's 787. Delta is waiting a while to receive more A350s (they have a scheduled decrease in deliveries and then will start receiving them at the current rate in 2 years to match existing fleet retirement plans), and the A350 might be too much aircraft. I don't know if they want to deploy a flagship aircraft on SLC-ICN, but it does work from Detroit. The 777 is stretched thin and generally only used for the longest haul routes.

Something else that I imagine will be brought up is the emerging partnership between Delta and WestJet. WS is changing their strategy to become a more full-service carrier (not entirely, but similar to how Aer Lingus operates with a mixed model) and are rumored to seek SkyTeam membership by 2020. A large hole in SLC's international network is Edmonton, and there seems to be a dearth of frequencies to Canada in the future network now that Delta has a partner in Canada. They have applied for a JV, and I would expect WS to possibly add Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, and maybe farther out, Toronto and Winnipeg. They have a variety of seasonal destinations (9 I believe) in PHX, but they are ending their partnership with American Airlines in April.

As far as future destinations in Europe, what do you guys think? At this point we have filled out the largest SkyTeam hubs in Europe. The remaining large hubs are Moscow (Aeroflot), Madrid (Air Europa), and Rome (Alitalia). All of those airlines have weak partnerships with Delta. The jump we took from adding AMS and LHR was much smaller than whatever jump we will take to add another European destination. For that reason I believe that we will see an expansion of frequencies rather than new destinations. I would expect KL's AMS flight to expand beyond season and to 7x a week, and for another CDG flight on DL (AF is not likely), and for LHR to become year round. I think any new destinations will be DL fighting off any LCCs who choose to fly here (most likely Norwegian and Icelandair), like their MSP-KEF flight. SLC international flying is very high yielding and I imagine they will want to continue to protect that.

wrendog · #**768** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 7:11 PM**

I think when all is said and done SLC will have a Seoul flight on Korean, 2 new long haul intl on Delta and then 2 of either Icelandic, Norwegian or Condor.

San Diego-Honolulu · #**769** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 10:54 PM**

The Salt Lake City to London flight was brought up. It sounds like it’s not doing too great (even with it operating in the summer only). I personally wouldn’t be surprised to see it not resume next summer if it underperforms this summer. I think there was hope that the partnership with Virgin Atlantic would help but that hasn’t been the case. I too believe that Korean Air will add service to Salt Lake City. I think the earliest announcement won’t happen until next year sometime though.

As far as non Delta partners adding service to Salt Lakr City, I can only see Condor adding service to Salt Lake City.

jubguy3 · #**770** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 11:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Diego-Honolulu

The Salt Lake City to London flight was brought up. It sounds like it’s not doing too great (even with it operating in the summer only). I personally wouldn’t be surprised to see it not resume next summer if it underperforms this summer. I think there was hope that the partnership with Virgin Atlantic would help but that hasn’t been the case. I too believe that Korean Air will add service to Salt Lake City. I think the earliest announcement won’t happen until next year sometime though.

As far as non Delta partners adding service to Salt Lakr City, I can only see Condor adding service to Salt Lake City.

Would Norwegian be a good candidate for service to SLC out of an unexpected market? I could see them either trying to kill the LHR flight with SLC-LGW or maybe an unserved market that they can increase demand for by providing a low cost fare on like SLC-BCN or SLC-OSL.The big what if right now is that Norwegian has a ton of debt. They are dead-set on becoming the next Swissair.

Stenar · #**771** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 11:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Would Norwegian be a good candidate for service to SLC out of an unexpected market? I could see them either trying to kill the LHR flight with SLC-LGW or maybe an unserved market that they can increase demand for by providing a low cost fare on like SLC-BCN or SLC-OSL.The big what if right now is that Norwegian has a ton of debt. They are dead-set on becoming the next Swissair.

Would Norwegian add a SLC flight when they already fly to Vegas? I would LOVE a flight from SLC to OSL. It'd make it a lot easier for me to get home.

wrendog · #**772** Posted **Mar 3, 2018, 11:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stenar

Would Norwegian add a SLC flight when they already fly to Vegas? I would LOVE a flight from SLC to OSL. It'd make it a lot easier for me to get home.

If Norwegian added a flight to SLC, it wouldn't be to OSL. It would be to LGW
most likely(especially if the delta flight dies)

I think San Diego is right. If any of the non Delta affiliated airlines start an SLC flight it would be Condor to Frankfurt

San Diego-Honolulu · #**773** Posted **Mar 4, 2018, 5:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stenar

Would Norwegian add a SLC flight when they already fly to Vegas? I would LOVE a flight from SLC to OSL. It'd make it a lot easier for me to get home.

I don’t think Norwegian would add Salt Lake for a few reasons. First, they already fly to Las Vegas as mentioned, but they also fly to Denver as well. Also I think the biggest reason being is that when Norwegian enters a market, like they have been doing in Oakland, Denver, Las Vegas, Fort Lauderdale, Los Angeles, NYC, etc., they add anywhere between 2-8 destinations from the airport. With that I don’t think Norwegian would come to Salt Lake City just to fly to London-Gatwick, they would probably want to add other cities such as Oslo, Barcelona, Paris, Stockholm, etc, and I just don’t think there is demand for all that service. I think Delta would protect their territory like crazy from any expansion possibility from Norwegian. I think British Airways was seriously considering adding Salt Lake City a couple years ago, but I think when Delta got wind of the possibility, they announced their own nonstop flight to London from Salt Lake to protect their turf. Along those lines, joint ventures and close airline partnerships are driving factors trans Atlantic/Pacific international carriers add service to cities. Lufthansa flies to Denver from Munich and Frankfurt because United and Lufthansa have a joint venture agreement. That’s also why you don’t see KLM in Denver but in Salt Lake City due to the Delta joint venture. I also agree with the poster that recently said that trans Atlantic growth from Salt Lake will most likely come from frequency additions and not new cities.

I don’t think people realize how large the loyal base is and how many frequent flyers live in the Salt Lake area for Delta. There is a reason why the only two international airlines that serve Salt Lake City are Delta joint venture partners (Aeromexico and KLM). It’s also the reason why I think service to Seoul on Korean Air is the only logical Asian destination from Salt Lake City. Its a great thing for the local economy that Delta is so strong in Salt Lake City. If Delta didn’t have so much loyalty in the area and dedication to protecting their turf in Salt Lake, then I can guarantee you that airlines such as Volaris, British Airways, and Icelandair would already be flying to Salt Lake City.

wrendog · #**774** Posted **Mar 4, 2018, 5:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Diego-Honolulu

I don’t think Norwegian would add Salt Lake for a few reasons. First, they already fly to Las Vegas as mentioned, but they also fly to Denver as well. Also I think the biggest reason being is that when Norwegian enters a market, like they have been doing in Oakland, Denver, Las Vegas, Fort Lauderdale, Los Angeles, NYC, etc., they add anywhere between 2-8 destinations from the airport. \

Austin is only getting LGW

San Diego-Honolulu · #**775** Posted **Mar 4, 2018, 6:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrendog

Austin is only getting LGW

That’s true. But if you look at how Norwegian enters a market as of late they only start with one city. But once the flight gets going and is successful, that’s when they start adding the other routes. Same thing happened at Denver. Denver only started with London, but they’ll soon be getting a nonstop Paris flight as well on Norwegian. Seattle is rumored to be getting additional cities from Norwegian soon as well and they only started with London. I think once the Austin-London Gatwick flight gets going, you’ll see them add another city such as Paris or Amsterdam from Austin.

It’s seems that Norwegian’s tragedy lately is that they’ll enter with one city and if it’s successful that’s when they pour on additional cites all within a short period of time. But if that one city is not performing well, then Norwegian will quickly cut service not too long after it started. That’s what exactly happened in Hartford, San Juan, and Baltimore.

jubguy3 · #**776** Posted **Mar 4, 2018, 5:39 PM**

Delta has announced the resumption of SLC-CLE.

scottharding · #**777** Posted **Mar 4, 2018, 6:27 PM**

Delta also just added a direct flight from SLC to Pittsburgh.

And I'll be on one of the flights direct to London this summer. I hope that one doesn't get cut.

San Diego-Honolulu · #**778** Posted **Mar 6, 2018, 5:34 AM**

Good article on the new terminal development project.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46274417&nid=14...time-redesign-now-approaching-36-billion

Delta is also making Salt Lake City to Milwaukee a Delta mainline flight later this year.

Comrade · #**779** Posted **Mar 6, 2018, 7:05 AM**

If Utah wasn't so militant with its support for the second amendment, and in the back pocket of the NRA, I would love for 'em to go after Delta to make SLC their main hub after the mess going on with Georgia. Doubtful, though, as I could see the Utah legislature pulling the exact same stunt Georgia did after Delta did something on 🞵🞵🞵🞵 that was well within their right as a private corporation.

San Diego-Honolulu · #**780** Posted **Mar 6, 2018, 8:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comrade

If Utah wasn't so militant with its support for the second amendment, and in the back pocket of the NRA, I would love for 'em to go after Delta to make SLC their main hub after the mess going on with Georgia. Doubtful, though, as I could see the Utah legislature pulling the exact same stunt Georgia did after Delta did something on 🞵🞵🞵🞵 that was well within their right as a private corporation.

There is a difference between an airline's main hub and its headquarters. Delta happens to have their main hub and headquarters in the same city, Atlanta. Not all airlines though. Even though Southwest doesn't have official hubs (they use the word 'focus cities'), their headquarters are in Dallas, but their five largest focus cities are MDW, BWI, LAS, DEN, and PHX. Dallas-Love Field is the seventh busiest airport for Southwest. Also now defunct AirTran (which was bought by Southwest) had its headquarters in Orlando but its main hub was Atlanta. That would never happen with Delta and them moving their main hub or headquarters to Salt Lake City for many reasons. There is not enough of a large corporate presence in the Salt Lake City area, the metro population is too small (not enough O&D traffic in Salt Lake City for an airline the size of Delta), and Salt Lake City is too far west and too long of a flight from the major east coast cities. There is a saying around Delta that Minneapolis is Delta's second home. That of course is due to when Northwest Airlines was around and had their headquarters and main hub in Minneapolis, before the Delta merger. Delta still maintains a very large office in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is also Delta's third busiest hub. Delta would probably never leave Atlanta as its main hub. But if it did move its headquarters out of Atlanta, I would assume they would make Minneapolis its headquarters but keep its main hub in Atlanta.