Winnipeg | Downtown | True North Square | U/C

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

That might be nice for a city like Brandon but I would hope a city like Winnipeg could handle a 24 story building. It seems odd when Edmonton is looking forward to getting a 900 foot building and we here in Winnipeg seem to think a 100 foot building is what is preferable. Is our goal just to be a larger version of Regina or do we aspire to be something grander?

There is only so much growth to go around, and Edmonton has much more of it than Winnipeg does. The choice isn't filling in downtown with 5 story buildings or 30 story buildings - it's having more of downtown filled in with 5 story buildings, or a little bit of downtown with 30 story buildings and the rest surface parking. The second might help Winnipeg compete better in the Great Canadian Skyline Thread, but the first is what will actually make downtown a more popular and vibrant area.

No one's saying Winnipeg shouldn't be building towers at Edmonton's pace, but the point is, we can't. The demand just isn't there. So what is the best way to accommodate the demand that we do have? That's the question.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

The idea that a bunch of lowrises is better than one highrise would be more appealing if we didn't end up with lowrise duds like this. If a surface lot is a 1 when it comes to street interaction, then this thing is a 2, maybe a 3 at best. It does little to animate the streetscape as opposed to the taller, if not quite highrise, Centrepoint development across the street.



As we can see, just filling in lots isn't enough to create a pleasant pedestrian environment.

Absolutely, but I assume we're talking all else being equal right. There's obviously nothing inherent to small buildings about meeting the street poorly, and vice versa with tall buildings.

[esquire]

^ The problem is that all else isn't always equal. Taller often equates to bigger budget, better design, and more people inside to support storefronts at the base.

[Urban recluse]

Every new building cannot offer CRUs. Location really is the determining factor.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

There is only so much growth to go around, and Edmonton has much more of it than Winnipeg does. The choice isn't filling in downtown with 5 story buildings or 30 story buildings - it's having more of downtown filled in with 5 story buildings, or a little bit of downtown with 30 story buildings and the rest surface parking. The second might help Winnipeg compete better in the Great Canadian Skyline Thread, but the first is what will actually make downtown a more popular and vibrant area.

No one's saying Winnipeg shouldn't be building towers at Edmonton's pace, but the point is, we can't. The demand just isn't there. So what is the best way to accommodate the demand that we do have? That's the question.

Hamilton and Halifax are kicking Winnipeg's —.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The problem is that all else isn't always equal. Taller often equates to bigger budget, better design, and more people inside to support storefronts at the base.

I don't really think that's necessarily true. There are some really cheap tall buildings that look terrible. I think enforcing comprehensive urban design guidelines is more important in ensuring an adequate quality of building than height is. I can't claim to know the economics behind whether revenue from more condos sold/offices lease grows exponentially with height, but I do know that there are plenty of good looking mid-rises across Canada so you'd think it can be done.

Plus as urban recluse said, not every building needs ground floor retail, even downtown. Even just entrances to ground floor entrances do enough to liven up a street, or at least keep it from being dead like that blank wall in your example does.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I think enforcing comprehensive urban design guidelines is more important in ensuring an adequate quality of building than height is.

This is the key factor. Height and the "would you rather have one 30 storey tower or six 5 storey buildings" question are red herrings.

[Urban recluse]

It all comes down to economics and vision, both of which are lacking in Winnipeg.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

It all comes down to economics and vision, both of which are lacking in Winnipeg.

Ugh. Why would you send out that message? I'm thinking that this may say more about you. I see such change in this city this last few years and it lifts me up. That's where I'm at.

[Urban recluse]

Bubble.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Ugh. Why would you send out that message? I'm thinking that this may say more about you. I see such change in this city this last few years and it lifts me up. That's where I'm at.

Because it's true!!! Just use the floodway as an example. One of the largest earth moving projects in human history... if this were built anywhere else there would have been an interpretive centre built to accompany it explaining why it's needed how it was built and about the environment. It would have had a museum of floods and possible a viewing tower so people could see the floodway disappear into the distance. Anwhere else they would have built up proper recreational infrastructure along with it. Not the — bridge over 59 at birds hill park that becomes useless once you cross it because the little bridge over the floodway is always out of service. Except for the weekend of the folk festival. Then there's spring hill they could have made a couple awesome runs... did absolutely nothing to make that a even a little bit better.. even a recreational area for off-road vehicles and dirt bikes... sadly no vision

[Tacheguy]

The Forks was an operational railway yard several decades ago. People come from all over the world to figure out how three levels of government could work towards what exists today -- one of the world's great public spaces. The L'esplanade and Waterfront Drive were also forward looking public investments that received a fair amount of short sighted criticism. Is there a greater example of "vision" than the creation of the cmhr? Even its critics should concede that point.
Winnipeg has its problems but I don't think a lack of vision is high on the list.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Because it's true!!! Just use the floodway as an example. One of the largest earth moving projects in human history... if this were built anywhere else there would have been an interpretive centre built to accompany it explaining why it's needed how it was built and about the environment. It would have had a museum of floods and possible a viewing tower so people could see the floodway disappear into the distance. Anwhere else they would have built up proper recreational infrastructure along with it. Not the — bridge over 59 at birds hill park that becomes useless once you cross it because the little bridge over the floodway is always out of service. Except for the weekend of the folk festival. Then there's spring hill they could have made a couple awesome runs... did absolutely nothing to make that a even a little bit better.. even a recreational area for off-road vehicles and dirt bikes... sadly no vision

floodway was built in the mid-60's to prevent Winnipeg from floding, yup no visionary from Duff Roblin.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Because it's true!!! Just use the floodway as an example. One of the largest earth moving projects in human history... if this were built anywhere else there would have been an interpretive centre built to accompany it explaining why it's needed how it was built and about the environment. It would have had a museum of floods and possible a viewing tower so people could see the floodway disappear into the distance. Anwhere else they would have built up proper recreational infrastructure along with it. Not the — bridge over 59 at birds hill park that becomes useless once you cross it because the little bridge over the floodway is always out of service. Except for the weekend of the folk festival. Then there's spring hill they could have made a couple awesome runs... did absolutely nothing to make that a even a little bit better.. even a recreational area for off-road vehicles and dirt bikes... sadly no vision

If everywhere else would have used taxpayers money to built a flood interpretive centre I’m glad I live in winnipeg.

[esquire]

Not surprisingly the focus in the 60s, in the wake of a devastating flood, was on the hydrological engineering aspects of the floodway, not so much the recreational side of things. It's always nice to build in recreational assets, but that would have driven up the cost of what was already an immensely expensive project. It's hardly a slam dunk that any other place would have built the floodway as a recreational wonderland.

But to the previous point, I'm not sure exactly what vision is lacking here.

[bomberjet]

^There is/was a plan to have an interpretive centre with a tower and lookout. Seeing as I haven't heard of it for some time it's probably long dead.

I've never been to Duff Roblin provincial park, so am not sure what is there (not much it seems). Put up a sign saying look here us humans dug a huge ditch. Probably sufficient?

There are pathways, etc that cover long stretches of the floodway already.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is the key factor. Height and the "would you rather have one 30 storey tower or six 5 storey buildings" question are red herrings.

You know what I find interesting about this statement....there really is no such fish (in the wild) as a "red herring". Really, I looked it up. Its just a metaphor.

....hmmm

[Biff]

Oh yeah...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

You know what I find interesting about this statement....there really is no such fish (in the wild) as a "red herring". Really, I looked it up. Its just a metaphor.

....hmmm

What you mean there's no such thing?

Here's one for you:

[Ando]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Ugh. Why would you send out that message? I'm thinking that this may say more about you. I see such change in this city this last few years and it lifts me up. That's where I'm at.

That's what he/she does. Bitchy comments with no substance. It's a strange existence.