Great Lakes Cities

[Steely Dan]

how about some pretty pics of great lakes cities?

up first, the one and only chicago:


Frozen! ❄️ by Brian Kay, on Flickr




A work (freezing river) in progress. by Brian Kay, on Flickr




Untitled by Jareb Arguello, on Flickr




(1.6.18)-Icy_River-WEB-7 by Nick Ulivieri, on Flickr




Catching the Morning Light by v_kalathil, on Flickr

[Steely Dan]

milwaukee:

February Dawn II by In Wonder Photo, on Flickr

Banks and Snowy Banks by Vincent Buckley, on Flickr

JJN_6831 by James Novotny, on Flickr

JJN_6958 by James Novotny, on Flickr

Ice Skaters at Red Arrow Park by Vincent Buckley, on Flickr

[Steely Dan]

cleveland:


Cleveland Ohio by Bob Daveant, on Flickr


Cleveland Skyline by Joe Baur, on Flickr


Cleveland on Ice by Arthur Oleary, on Flickr


The Flats by Erik Drost, on Flickr


Touristy by Lauren Delgado, on Flickr

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ perusing toronto's street layout on google maps, it doesn't appear to be anywhere close to as ubiquitously alleyed as chicago is.

then again, as i said earlier, there might not be another city on our planet that is as ubiquitously alleyed as chicago is.

yet another detail difference between the two cities.

I don't think Chicago and Toronto are particularly similar at street level. Chicago is all gridded through-streets; Toronto has few continuous through-streets. Chicago streets are wider and streetscapes are more orderly. Chicago is much grander-feeling, with vastly more monumental architecture. Also much older, and a lot more former industrial/railyard zones.

I think Toronto is a bit more walkable, owing to the narrower streets and tighter fabric, but there's an underlying impermanence or something in the street-level atmosphere. Very little street furniture, glass building facades look like Shenzhen imports, everything looks done on a tight budget or something. Maybe a remnant of Protestant thrift?

[softee]

Some pretty Toronto pics.


Toronto-City-Skyline-1 by Andre Furtado, on Flickr

Downtown Toronto by Mark, on Flickr

Toronto skyline, 2018 01 28 -an by booledozer, on Flickr

Morning Rush by Christian Koval, on Flickr

[shappy]

Originally Posted by Segun

Chicago is not really that cohesive also. That picture that LouisVanDerRight posted is found across the city, but its not that common in the urban core.

I'd say the typical Chicago block consists of a bunch of buildings of different heights, styles, materials, eras, and setbacks from the street, some with entrances below the street. Its really hard to choose one. Its like all the buildings were arranged at one time on a board and someone knocked it over and just put them anywhere.

Try finding some rhyme and reason on these blocks.

https://goo.gl/maps/FasjmgFQR2U2
https://goo.gl/maps/58iuykr4uBE2
https://goo.gl/maps/FW5oNK2UNXp

Indeed lots of different styles (perhaps even more than a typical Toronto street) - but it still manages to look very neat and orderly. This is generally a contrast to Toronto's messier, smaller-scale urbanism.

Originally Posted by Segun

Someone posted a historical picture that showed a significant number of courtyard apartment buildings in Detroit, similar to Chicago neighborhoods. Some are surviving today, but not that many.

https://goo.gl/maps/TLc6Y3uZAQJ2

Detroit would have had a similar "look" to Chicago, but with different development patterns had it kept growing IMO. I think it would have been more nodal development, with major intersections of high density, tapering off into single family homes, connected by busy streetcar routes. I picture the major streets being very LA like.

Chicago's development follows the Lakefront and the EL

Yeah, I get what you mean about Detroit. Woodward could have potentially developed like a Yonge and St. Clair/Eglinton/Sheppard.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

there's no social obligation to mow your front lawn every week in chicago. if you hate lawn mowing, then you can simply turn you front yard into a garden, like our neighbors to the west of us have done. no grass to mow!

there is no law that says the front setback has to be filled in with grass, that's just what most people do. if you lived in chicago and hated, hated, hated mowing your front lawn, you'd just be one of those people that turns their front yard into a garden.

in our building, i made a deal with my neighbor upstairs that i'd take care of all the snow shoveling in the winter if he took care of all the yard work during the rest of the year. i won!

As a property owner, I simply lay white gravel on all of my front yards. Spray with weed spray a few times per year, and you’re done. . And it actually looks pretty nice.

[the urban politician]

This may sound a bit like I’m picking on southern cities, but I will have to say that looking at those pics, it’s quite evident that one thing may ultimately “save” the rustbelt:

The historic southern towns were built on the sea, but the modern boomtowns of that region are basically landlocked: Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Charlotte, etc.

I think the fact that the big Great Lakes cities are situated on vast bodies of water will go a long way toward their benefit. Just look how beautiful those vistas are!

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

This may sound a bit like I’m picking on southern cities, but I will have to say that looking at those pics, it’s quite evident that one thing may ultimately “save” the rustbelt:

The historic southern towns were built on the sea, but the modern boomtowns of that region are basically landlocked: Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Charlotte, etc.

I think the fact that the big Great Lakes cities are situated on vast bodies of water will go a long way toward their benefit. Just look how beautiful those vistas are!

at the same time you should look at those cities individually. in my opinion atlanta is vastly more attractive, climatologically moderate, and geographically advantageous than dallas, etc. i’m less bullish on texas long term than i am upland southeast.

[the urban politician]

^ Meh, I'm not too sure. I think Atlanta is at a disadvantage because it is basically a loner. Being a loner is, in part, what might be hurting Chicago because the rest of the Great Lakes cities didn't really fare too well after the mid twentieth century.

Contrast that with the Texas cities, which in the long run are better off because there will be a synergy between them.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Meh, I'm not too sure. I think Atlanta is at a disadvantage because it is basically a loner. Being a loner is, in part, what might be hurting Chicago because the rest of the Great Lakes cities didn't really fare too well after the mid twentieth century.

Contrast that with the Texas cities, which in the long run are better off because there will be a synergy between them.

not really following you there...theres a lot of interaction w/ nashville, charlotte, coastal southeast w/ an enlarged port at savannah. we are talking similar distances as the texas triangle.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

not really following you there...theres a lot of interaction w/ nashville, charlotte, coastal southeast w/ an enlarged port at savannah. we are talking similar distances as the texas triangle.

Those cities aren't as substantial or important as Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin though.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Those cities aren't as substantial or important as Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin though.

remember that part about how i said i was looking cities individually re: sunbelt? and while i was speaking long term, i have some real concerns about houston shorter term.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

how about some pretty pics of great lakes cities?

up first, the one and only chicago:

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Catching the Morning Light by v_kalathil, on Flickr

This is spectacular! And there is no way I am sharing this with the lady. For some reason she has become obsessed with Chicago, [and she has some really good arguments to move there] but the bones of Sunny cannot move north of latitude 37 or else I'll freeze to death--jk.

Actually when it comes to Chicago, the frozen north pictures are the best.

[the urban politician]

^ Summer in the greater Chicagoland area and environs is so orgasmic that it makes winter worth it

The winter discussion has been done to death. Not sure what is so noteworthy about Chicago winters--there are scores of other large northern cities as well...

But most people up here with the means go on a nice trip or two to a warm area during the depths of winter (but after the holidays, of course--who can beat a snowy Christmas?) to get a break from the cold. That generally gets one through winter. That and, of course, not making a big deal about nothing.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

As a property owner, I simply lay white gravel on all of my front yards. Spray with weed spray a few times per year, and you’re done. . And it actually looks pretty nice.

How unbelievably tacky and utilitarian, unlike Steely's neighbor.

You do realize that poison eventually ends up in the lake?

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Meh, I'm not too sure. I think Atlanta is at a disadvantage because it is basically a loner. Being a loner is, in part, what might be hurting Chicago because the rest of the Great Lakes cities didn't really fare too well after the mid twentieth century.

Contrast that with the Texas cities, which in the long run are better off because there will be a synergy between them.

Talk about some pretty insane logic. Only you could equate Atlanta's beauty putting us at a disadvantage.

[MolsonExport]

those Chicago pix are awesome.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Those cities aren't as substantial or important as Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin though.

Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, Raleigh-Durham-Cary, Greenville/Spartanburg, Columbia, and Charleston are all growing at decent clips and carry about as much economic heft as the four fast-growing Texas (and this isn't including the rest of both of these regions' undercompetitive cities). Charlotte and Nashville's MSAs are comparable to San Antonio and Austin. The Raleigh-Durham-Cary CSA is as well. The Greenville/Spartanburg CSA is a touch smaller, but still significant. You're right that there isn't a second large city in the Southeast region a la Texas having both Dallas and Houston, but it has many more mid-sized and smaller cities that are doing economically well. Compare, for instance, Texas's stagnating or simply surviving smaller markets such as Bryan-College Station, Corpus Christi, Waco, Killeen-Temple, Beaumont, to the Southeast's booming markets like Columbia, Charleston, Asheville, Knoxville. And there are still a number of other smaller markets that are stagnating. All told, though, there are way more people with way more purchasing power (in sum). If their economy isn't performing as well as the Texas Triangle, then that just speaks to the fact that there is economic potential to unlock.

And I say that as someone who has lived in Austin, San Antonio, and Columbia, SC.

[the urban politician]

^ I think you are bringing in too many second/third tier cities into the discussion, and the reality is that most of those will never wind up being very relevant or important like the bigger Texas boomtowns. Just having people alone is not really enough.

Anyhow, I stick with my initial point that I think being on huge bodies of water may ultimately rescue the Great Lakes cities in the long run....