Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[RC14]

Downtown Seattle is a desirable place to live and work. I don't think there is enough that separates downtown SLC from any other part of the metro yet. I think that will change when we reach a critical mass of residential development. More apartments leads to more people and more foot traffic which leads to more nightlife and 24 businesses which creates more demand which leads to more development. IMO

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Comrade

See I absolutely disagree. These are the structures that are unique in SLC and I'd hate to see 'em go - even for something taller.



It might not look like much but it's got a lot of history and is a type of architecture style that we do not have a lot of in SLC. I'm sad that they'll be demolishing this and no, I disagree with the idea it's nothing special.

I agree, that is what I was thinking when I made the comment. Cities are so much more interesting when old and new are woven together. While I am not someone particularly tied to the past, I also know that human nature is to want to fill connected to it and architecture is a great way to do that. That building is more than worthy of saving. Further, while the shop next to it is not particularly noteworthy it is another development that is replacing retail with residential. Until the city gets a grip on promoting vertical mixed use this will continue to happen.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Marvland

Easy to answer: they have no more land. Nothing magic really, no waving of a sacred "urban planner" wand. We are watching infill at a place that is unreal, consuming blank parcels. Once that land is gone stuff goes up. The view on this site that "nothing is happening" is really baffling but perhaps understandable given the young age of a lot of the commentors. . Salt Lake is an absolute shit-show of development right now. The larger market is too. And there is a story behind Pluralsight locating where they did. Believe me it's not our "conservative legislature" that is to blame.

I agree. I am in mid 30's and this is certainly far and away the most impressive growth I have seen. I would be interested in the story behind the Pluralsight location because is one that should sting the city. I don't think many of these companies consider downtown SLC, so when one does and they lose out to BFE, it hurts.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

I agree. I am in mid 30's and this is certainly far and away the most impressive growth I have seen. I would be interested in the story behind the Pluralsight location because is one that should sting the city. I don't think many of these companies consider downtown SLC, so when one does and they lose out to BFE, it hurts.

I've worked in tech for about 20 years and though I now work from home I still know lots of folks that work and run companies (some around here). One thing i've definitely noticed is that 9 out of 10 founders/CEO's of tech companies will choose having their own campus with cafeterias, gyms, basketball courts (a la Google, Facebook, Apple) versus leasing out 3-4 floors in a high rise downtown. So that tech culture also plays as big a problem as legislature permitting IMO.

So we have the perfect storm here;
1) Lax zoning and permitting laws (and possibly incompetent urban planners)
2) Developers' appetite for maximum ROI through cheap land (this will always exist and there's plenty of land around here)
3) A tech culture of "campuses" (and not enough traffic/commute problems here to outweigh this)

Before moving here I worked at a tech firm in LA that actually broke the mold and had an urban office (restored 1800's high rise). Everyone there raved about how location was a big reason they took the job. They really enjoyed working in a place that was a block away from a metro station and had a boatload of restaurants/bars/retail right outside the doors versus their previous places of work that were your typical office park. You'll hear the same thing out of most 25-45 year old people in SF versus the ones working down in Silicon Valley.

[bflatflat9]

Originally Posted by Comrade

See I absolutely disagree. These are the structures that are unique in SLC and I'd hate to see 'em go - even for something taller.



It might not look like much but it's got a lot of history and is a type of architecture style that we do not have a lot of in SLC. I'm sad that they'll be demolishing this and no, I disagree with the idea it's nothing special.

It's a thin line (like everything else) between salvageable and beyond repair. I agree that I wish this type of place would be kept in the cities' stock, as there are fewer and fewer, although the new proposal looks good.
Selfishly, I'll miss this place, cuz I used to have a friend that lived in the four-plex behind here. Lotta good memories. Sunsets jammin Lowrider oldies, Miller 40's, bud....

[Utah_Dave]

Originally Posted by jetlag

I've worked in tech for about 20 years and though I now work from home I still know lots of folks that work and run companies (some around here). One thing i've definitely noticed is that 9 out of 10 founders/CEO's of tech companies will choose having their own campus with cafeterias, gyms, basketball courts (a la Google, Facebook, Apple) versus leasing out 3-4 floors in a high rise downtown. So that tech culture also plays as big a problem as legislature permitting IMO.

So we have the perfect storm here;
1) Lax zoning and permitting laws (and possibly incompetent urban planners)
2) Developers' appetite for maximum ROI through cheap land (this will always exist and there's plenty of land around here)
3) A tech culture of "campuses" (and not enough traffic/commute problems here to outweigh this)

Before moving here I worked at a tech firm in LA that actually broke the mold and had an urban office (restored 1800's high rise). Everyone there raved about how location was a big reason they took the job. They really enjoyed working in a place that was a block away from a metro station and had a boatload of restaurants/bars/retail right outside the doors versus their previous places of work that were your typical office park. You'll hear the same thing out of most 25-45 year old people in SF versus the ones working down in Silicon Valley.

This is a great point and should be something that downtown SLC should be actively working on. SLC needs more amenities such as a recreational facility that “DownTown rising” identified as a goal or need and perhaps some outdoor spaces that are more then just grass and trees. Although grass and trees are great too. From the outside looking in, it appears the homeless problem and affordable housing dominates the discussion. It’s easier said then done but I would like to see a more proactive effort from the city to create more amenity opportunities and other ideas to draw in people and companies rather then reacting to the problem at hand only. I would also like to hear about the efforts they may be making but go unnoticed by the general public. If you know of some of these efforts, please share.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

Nah no conceding quite yet Yes, Seattle does have the most cranes within city limits, but far from the most high rises under construction. Granted, these are classified as 10+ stories, which is why DC and Denver are relatively high on the list despite having few (and in DC’s case none) being built over 20-30 stories.

Actively under construction according to Emporis at the end of 2017:

New York: 315
Chicago: 65
Houston: 52
Miami: 36
Minneapolis: 35
Denver: 34
Los Angeles: 32
Seattle: 32
Atlanta: 26
Boston: 16
Washington DC: 16
Dallas: 15
Austin: 14
Philadelphia: 12
San Diego: 12
San Francisco: 12
Memphis: 11
Las Vegas: 10
Nashville: 10

Side note: New York is seeing its largest skyscraper boom in its history. Is is by FAR outpacing any city in the US in terms of high rise construction.

Either Emporis is wrong or the articles I posted are wrong. Tower cranes = highrise under construction. Seattle has way more highrises under construction than Denver. There are 40-story towers sprouting up here like weeds.

[twig]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Either Emporis is wrong or the articles I posted are wrong. Tower cranes = highrise under construction. Seattle has way more highrises under construction than Denver. There are 40-story towers sprouting up here like weeds.

40 stories + buildings do not equal to more construction. Denver has just as many high rises as Seattle does under construction, they may not have as many of them quite as tall, but that doesn't mean anything. There are tower cranes everywhere there, a sight I wish to behold here.... but in due time as always right?

[GrandTeton]

Where can I go for Salt Lake development news?

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by GrandTeton

Where can I go for Salt Lake development news?

This is a great resource https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/

[grasscom]

Originally Posted by GrandTeton

Where can I go for Salt Lake development news?

I know! Haha! I think we spend more time talking about other cities than we actually do talking about stuff going on in our own city

[asies1981]

Editorial on billboards.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by GrandTeton

Where can I go for Salt Lake development news?

Sorry. I was just making a point earlier comparing urban development in Seattle versus the lack of it in SLC not to point out that Seattle is better or anything like that, but to ask why is SLC(my hometown) losing out so much, and then it became a pissing match. If anybody is curious how many highrises are in development or are under-construction in Seattle, check out this link: click on any of the blue dots where it appears to be more urban. https://www.seattle.gov/dpd/shapingseattle/map.aspx

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Sorry. I was just making a point earlier comparing urban development in Seattle versus the lack of it in SLC not to point out that Seattle is better or anything like that, but to ask why isn't SLC(my hometown) losing out so much, and then it became a pissing match. If anybody is curious how many highrises are in development or are under-construction in Seattle, check out this link: click on any of the blue dots where it appears to be more urban. https://www.seattle.gov/dpd/shapingseattle/map.aspx

I, in particular, really enjoy your contributions to this forum, Orlando. Seattle is the fucking model. Every other city aspires to do what Seattle does, including the city (not SLC) that dominates this page for one reason or another. Hint: it is a city that really wants to be Seattle but isn't even close. Seattle is a world city like Chicago, Tokyo, London and San Fran.

[jubguy3]

I think every city is trying to emulate what Seattle has become, minus maybe the affordability of housing. But Washington has an incredibly strong business market, beautiful scenery (though not as beautiful as my precious Utah), an amazing cultural mixture throughout the Puget sound, beautiful iconic architecture, a forward thinking community with amazing initiative, etc. Seattle is everything it says it is, and they're surprisingly humble about it, which is unusual for a millennial city. Everything I imagine SLC being in the future points towards what Seattle is: a dense community of liberals working to build a better future for their urban landscape while preserving the conservative business-friendly (this is eroding somewhat in Seattle with Amazon and Boeing but I think it's something we could preserve here) aspect and a profound respect for natural beauty. That's not something I see in many other cities around the United States. I think it's rather lucky of SLC to be before it's prime, which is very unusual for a city of our wealth and age in the United States. I hope our lawmakers take note of that and exploit it to the best of their ability.

[Mountain man]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

I think every city is trying to emulate what Seattle has become, minus maybe the affordability of housing. But Washington has an incredibly strong business market, beautiful scenery (though not as beautiful as my precious Utah), an amazing cultural mixture throughout the Puget sound, beautiful iconic architecture, a forward thinking community with amazing initiative, etc. In comparison to some cities like... our neighbor to the east... Seattle is everything it says it is, and they're surprisingly humble about it, which is unusual for a millennial city. I've had people describe Denver to me like it's in the Himalayas, and Austin like Dell will give you $10,000 the minute you step inside city limits. But it's hard to hate people from Seattle the same way. Everything I imagine SLC being in the future points towards what Seattle is: a dense community of liberals working to build a better future for their urban landscape while preserving the conservative business-friendly (this is eroding somewhat in Seattle with Amazon and Boeing but I think it's something we could preserve here) aspect and a profound respect for natural beauty. That's not something I see in many other cities around the United States. Denver is growing up very quickly, but it's lacking in historical charm and it's full of smug neckbeards. Atlanta punches well above it's weight in influence and business, but the political climate is absolutely toxic (see: the Delta controversy this week). Austin is an icon of urbanism, but their transit network is dismal. I think it's rather lucky of SLC to be before it's prime, which is very unusual for a city of our wealth and age in the United States. I hope our lawmakers take note of that and exploit it to the best of their ability.

You know, I always find it odd that you guys seem to be the only ones with a problem with the attitude in Denver. Only Utah’ns. Is it a problem that everyone seems to love Denver? Is it a problem that people treat it as if it’s the Himalayas? Do you really care? If you do you either sound petty or jealous. Denver is a great city with one of the best panoramic views of mountains you can find. Are they pressed right up against the mountains like Utah? No. But I’ve never and I mean never have ever come across anyone who even cares, except utah’ns. I love Salt Lake but man it’s peoples attidudes there about Denver and Colorado as a whole that are really a turn off. You know that people all around the world love Denver, but you guys seem to really have a real stick up your ass about the fact how much people love it there and how they view the city. Everywhere I go I know people who love Denver and love to visit and visit the mountains, I know lots of people who want to move there. The only people I have ever known who don’t feel the same is Utah people. Holy crap you guys got to get over it.

Jubguy, I know I came down hard but it wasn’t all just you, yours was just the last straw. This is years of reading stupid posts about hatred towards the attitude of Denver and how people love it there.

Now is there anything Salt Lake related going on? You guys just cannot seem to stay on track can you

[twig]

I love Denver, honestly if I could live anywhere I would live there. But I guess Salt Lake is a good back up. Salt lake is pretty but it’s just that, Denver has the mountains and it has the city. Good combo! I don’t mind driving a little bit extra to get to them, it’s not like I’m driving up in the mountains every day, no one really does that.... I just honestly wish our politicians would grow up and realize what jet lag said, we are in a very peculiar position as a city, and I too wish that they would realize that and take advantage of the opportunity. I think the problem they have is though is they are afraid that if they set boundaries and restrictions on where developers can build and how them they might be scared of them saying, “well These guys are making us build here but this other city let’s us build wherever and it’s cheaper.” I wonder if that’s their mindset at all

[grasscom]

Speaking of ep design, I used to really like your pictures you would post. If you ever have more I and I’m sure many others would really love to see them

[jubguy3]

You know, I didn't really think I was dragging on Denver that hard. I have blocked most of the people who bring up those flamewars in the first place. I was simply using it as a point of reference for how Seattle is much closer to an ideal city than most anywhere else in the US. I love Denver myself. There are things that tick me off about it, and things that tick me off about other cities as well, and I was using those as a point of reference for how it is amazing that Seattle has achieved such a combination of culture, history, urbanism, transportation, and livability.

But Denver isn't without it's issues. Am I crossing into the unspoken area if I talk about legitimate issues rather than the cultural gripes I have with Denver? It's not an ideal model for SLC. FasTracks is slowly deteriorating into an expensive mess surprisingly close to the end of the program. Denver is continuing to spread outwards with little regard for strict zoning in spite of the highrise boom. And the cost of living is outpacing income at a rate even beyond other cities that have a much higher living cost. There are things that SLC has done differently that have separated it from what Denver has done, and I think are particularly good examples of understanding what makes a model program or a model city. Frontlines 2015 was a nearly flawless program - Seattle is actually following in our footsteps.

I didn't mean to incite so much drama over this. I thought I was the one who held back. But you don't need to turn to personal attacks. Whether or not what I said was okay is beyond that. It wasn't, but this community has become increasingly toxic and unmanageable, and part of it is stuff like what I posted, but the larger part is the response that gets brought up surrounding it. I'm an immature highschooler and an unrespected member of the forum? That's not an appropriate way to deal with it in any way. Maybe we can use this as an exercise to fix whatever itch people have to antagonize others here, which I am going to admit I did contribute to above with my jab at Denver. But you absolutely do not need to turn to personal attacks to solve that. Shoot them a PM asking them to take it down respectfully. But look at how many posts got made within a matter of minutes. I would say that contributes to the toxicity more than the crap I stirred up above, because it escalates into personal boundaries.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

The next decade should be really exciting in SLC for many reasons but one of them is how industry disruption should affect many large parcels in the larger downtown area. I believe there 4-5 very large parcels that are consumed by car dealerships and these will become available for redevelopment as, I believe, autonomous cars drive these dealers out of business.