Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

For all of you who can't figure out Gatineau buses, have you considered just inputting a destination on Google maps or Transit and following the directions?

I did say:

Originally Posted by roger1818

I have come to distrust online travel planners

To elaborate, they often they provide a nonsensical routing or ignore a better option because it is a couple mintues off of the parameters you set (save 20 minutes by leaving 1 minute earlier than the time you specified or arrive 1 minute later). I'll use it as a tool to help me find a route, but won't follow it blindly.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dado

The Trillium Line crosses two other federally-regulated railways at grade. That keeps it under federal regulation.

Does it? I thought Transport Canada recently ruled that just because a line intersects with a federally-regulated railway, that doesn't make it federally-regulated, even if it previously was.

[Acajack]

Online travel planners are a tool in your toolbox, not a Pied Piper that you should follow off a cliff.

My family uses STO Planibus all the time and OC Transpo's sometimes too, without any real problems.

At worst they won't give you the "optimal" routing in terms of time or convenience. But you'll never get lost using one AFAIK.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have taken transit all over the world and been able to decipher all sorts of systems in all sorts of language and even written with unfamiliar characters in some cases.

Me as well. From my experience, tourists tend to gravitate towards subways as there are fewer and more frequent routes, the destinations are clear (especially if they aren't interlined) making it easier to figure them out. The use of buses tends to happen only once you are more familiar with the city.

If I put on my non-local hat and land in Ottawa-Gatineau the one thing that stands out (compared to the vast majority of places, including most other Canadian cities) is the sheer number of peak-only routes, often going only in one direction in the morning and the other in the afternoon. This region is the king of unidirectional, Mon-Fri peak only routes.

Agreed. At least in Ottawa, the vast majority of those routes run up and down Albert and Slater streets, connecting to the transitway on either end. In Gatineau the routes could follow one of many different paths depending on the destination or eve time of day, which adds to the confusion.

This isn't generally the way transit systems are set up in most cities in my experience.

Usually you simply have the same routes all day with the frequencies varying according to peak and non-peak periods.

Post LRT (especially after stage 2) things will get much better in this regard on the Ottawa side. There will still be many peak period routes, but they will mostly be in the suburbs and no longer all on top of each other. For destinations close to an LRT station, I gather there will be a move towards consolidating the Local and Connexion routes so that you can use the same route any time of day, but in peak periods the frequency will go up, especially in the most popular direction of travel. For that reason, after stage 2, Orleans may no longer have Connexion routes (or very few anyway).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The issue of STO buses clogging downtown Ottawa isn't a figment of my imagination.

Sure, there are STO buses that originate or terminate in the core, and use a few lane-km of Ottawa streets providing transit service that supports economic activity on both sides of the river.

"Clogging", however, is a rather loaded term. What's the support for the "clogging" assertion?

If we want to unclog downtown Ottawa, the problem is not buses (other than OC Transpo ones on Slater/Albert during peak, a problem which only has a few months to live.)

The problem is single-occupant private autos. And no one is suggesting doing, let alone actually doing, anything about that.

I take a bus into Gatineau about once every 2 weeks to see clients in the government and it is not particularly convenient. There is no proper "portal" into the STO system — most OC Transpo users are left intimidated or clueless how to use it, therefore it becomes a barrier.

Part of the problem there is the lack of any STO transit info on the Ottawa side, particularly at the Rideau hub. Their display was taken out years ago, long before the LRT construction even began, and possibly at the insistence of.... the city of Ottawa.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I look at the STO map and get overwhelmed. It seems like a mess of spaghetti with no clear indication of which bus goes where without analyzing it for half an hour. Their (English at least) website is very user unfriendly. I have come to distrust online travel planners and they don't seem to have route maps or listings with the same level of detail that you find on OC Transpo's website.

This this this.

STO's system map is the single worst transit system map I have ever encountered.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

At worst they won't give you the "optimal" routing in terms of time or convenience. But you'll never get lost using one AFAIK.

I find both OC Transpo and STO's software prioritizes the minimizing of walk distances, often at the cost of really terrible trip options.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I find both OC Transpo and STO's software prioritizes the minimizing of walk distances, often at the cost of really terrible trip options.

And they often don't even know you can walk efficiently from A to B.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I find both OC Transpo and STO's software prioritizes the minimizing of walk distances, often at the cost of really terrible trip options.

Don't you have or should you not have the option of prioritizing for yourself either minimal walking, minimal transfers, other factors, etc.?

I honestly don't know as I am pretty nimble with these things and just toggle back and forth within the standard settings until I find what I want.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Don't you have or should you not have the option of prioritizing for yourself either minimal walking, minimal transfers, other factors, etc.?

Yes, it gives you the options, but the default seems to be predicated on the idea that people don't like to walk.

[lrt's friend]

Can OC Transpo and STO not cooperate and create 3 joint maps? A full system map, an all day route map, and a rapid transit schematic.

Also, can we not also have a listing a routes with frequencies by time period? Both OC and STO combined.

Like 15 minute peak, 20 minute midday, 30 minute evening, 60 minute late evening, no service overnight, same for Saturday and Sunday, early morning, midday, evening, late evening, overnight

All of this will give the average user or visitor a better overview of how Ottawa-Gatineau transit works before drilling down to specific schedules.

I don't trust trip planners. The one time I used it, I ended up walking almost the entire distance. I want to see what choices I have instead of putting blinders on. For the same reason, I am not a big fan of GPS. "Turn around now" when there is a median barrier. Bah!

[lrt's friend]

Yes, that is true. But of this I actually can find proof of my recollection: their longterm plan is to build a whole new parallel track for the Trillium Line, complete with a new twin track bridge over Hunt Club. In the short run they'll continue to share the track.

At Lester Rd, in the short term they'll build a bridge over it for freight and the Trillium Line. In the future, they'll build a second bridge for LRT and possibly a third for freight, or just run freight over Lester at grade.

I expect the Hunt Club Road railway bridge will need to be twinned to accommodate Phase 2. This is the only way that the airport shuttle train will work for transfers at South Keys. At the same time, I believe they will address other future needs including a MUP that will follow the Trillium Line south to Leitrim. Given the frequency of freight trains, I am sure that track will be shared.

The latest plan is to build a LRT bridge over Lester Road. They better allow for double tracking. Freight will cross Lester Road at grade since the rare freight trains need to use the spur just south of Lester. Given the amount of traffic using Lester between the Airport Parkway and Albion, this is now a wise choice.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The latest plan is to build a LRT bridge over Lester Road. They better allow for double tracking. Freight will cross Lester Road at grade since the rare freight trains need to use the spur just south of Lester. Given the amount of traffic using Lester between the Airport Parkway and Albion, this is now a wise choice.

Further to this, I believe the current plan is to provide enough width to accomodate double tracking in the future, but with single tracking it will carry one track and one MUP. Once double tracking occurs the MUP will be moved to a new purpose-built ped / cycling bridge (which is cheaper to build / less load requirements).

[lrt's friend]

If you read on in that document they discuss Leitrim Rd and how we'll build a temporary overpass for Leitrim that will be demolished at a later date when Leitrim is realigned to make way for a new runway. There's some more money that could be spent on the Prince of Wales Bridge instead.

The Trillium line extension is funded. The use of POW is not.

I was at the Leitrim Road planning meeting last night. There is a lot of uncertainty about the future of Leitrim Road because of airport plans. Nevertheless, any airport plans that will need the Leitrim Road right of way is many years off. Somebody at the meeting said this. It is decades away, and given the current plane traffic at the airport, I don't see the need of another runway for a long long time.

So you say, we don't need a Leitrim Road overpass. But the Albion-Leitrim intersection is already failing because of traffic problems. This is only a very short distance from the proposed Trillium Line crossing. Given current traffic conditions, which will only get worse in the coming years, how can we justify extending the Trillium Line with level crossings?

Yes, there is a plan to reallign Leitrim Road but this is very long term, decades away. Given that scenario, we need to build a 'temporary' overpass to address current needs.

[lrt's friend]

Consider the crossing of the Airport Parkway. There's fundamentally two ways to do it: take the rail link over the Airport Parkway, or take the Airport Parkway over the rail link. From the point of view of the rail link, taking the Airport Parkway over the rail link is definitely better: the rail link would not have to climb leaving the Prescott Sub corridor and since the land drops off to the west approaching the E&Y Centre, the rail link could enter the elevated structure without actually changing elevation much itself. It would also be cheaper as only one structure would be required in the short term: to bring the current single carriageway of the Airport Parkway over the rail link (though you might actually build the structure for the other carriageway instead, then route the current carriageway over it, as doing it that way would allow for minimal construction disruption). When the Airport Parkway is twinned, a second structure would be required then, but that cost gets assigned to the road twinning budget. Instead, we're going to raise the rail link over the current Airport Parkway *and* its future second carriageway *and* continue on an elevated but descending structure/embankment as it heads west to the E&Y Centre. But all those costs get assigned to the rail budget.

Since there is only one taxpayer, I want the cheapest overall long-term solution.

There may be slight elevation difference to the east and west of the Airport Parkway, however, the plan is that the train will have elevated stations at the airport terminal, and at the EY Centre. I presume it will be elevated most of the way in between to cross any roads that may exist on the airport property. I am not sure why we would not want to not continue this elevated route to the airport Parkway. Building a Parkway overpass (essentially an expressway bridge) over the Trillium Line will not be consistent with the Airport Parkway being a scenic entrance into the city from the airport. Nevertheless, why would a multi-lane divided highway overpass (or underpass) be cheaper than a single track rail bridge?

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Trillium line extension is funded. The use of POW is not.

I was at the Leitrim Road planning meeting last night.

How was the Letrim Road Open House, anything interesting about the design?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

and of course, if you tried to take the 5 to get to Beechwood, you'd end up at BB !!!!!!!!

And you can no longer wait for all three Beechwood buses, including the 19, successor to the 5, at a single stop downtown, thanks to "optimization".

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Online travel planners are a tool in your toolbox, not a Pied Piper that you should follow off a cliff.

My family uses STO Planibus all the time and OC Transpo's sometimes too, without any real problems.

At worst they won't give you the "optimal" routing in terms of time or convenience. But you'll never get lost using one AFAIK.

Exactly. I don't know what the issue is. I've used STO buses before. Without any issues. It's only a bit more of a pain in the ass to figure out where and how to use them. And I think a huge part of that is because they focus on serving Gatineau residents and nobody else.

My biggest beef is the lack of integration with Google Maps. This is the real problem. People don't download individual transit agency apps anymore. They use Google/Apple maps on their phones for direction. Especially tourist. Something you think Ottawa and Gatineau would both understand.

Speaking of mobile integration, both agencies are falling behind on mobile payments. Why Metrolinx has not talked to Apple and Google on mobile payments with Presto is beyond me. This is something Ottawa should absolutely demand.

Also would be nice of Gatineau to adopt another fare card. Either go with Presto from Metrolinx (best choice) or OPUS from Montreal (alternative used by the rest of Quebec).

[Aylmer]

Gatineau has had Google Maps integration for a few months now...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Gatineau has had Google Maps integration for a few months now...

Thanks for the info - I did not know this.

Is it the same as Planibus in terms of reliability? (I guess it should be...)