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[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by rofina

I love how that doesn't even compute into the calculations we make as a society.

People are taking out 30 year mortgages - there is a real possibility that there will already be issues with ground water swelling in areas like Richmond by the time those mortgages are up.

Is this not something we should be collectively thinking of?

I don't know what the cure to all of societies ills is, but I do know that short term thinking is really hindering our decisions making abilities.

It's already happening in parts of Florida, for example, parts of which have already seen rises of as much as 6 inches from where it was as recently as 1992.

They expect to lose close to $500 Billion worth of waterfront Real Estate and building properties by the end of this century if the rise continues at the current pace unabated.
That translates to about 934,000 existing properties altogether.

It's bad enough as it is that in places like Richmond you have a high water table that already prevents you from having underground structures, parkades and basement (short of very expensive construction). Throw in rising sea levels (which will also have an effect on that water table) and you have a recipe for losing a hell of a lot of property and value.

Maybe we should take a leaf from the Dutch and get ahead of the problem and start building dykes and flood walls.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

I love how that doesn't even compute into the calculations we make as a society.

People are taking out 30 year mortgages - there is a real possibility that there will already be issues with ground water swelling in areas like Richmond by the time those mortgages are up.

Is this not something we should be collectively thinking of?

I don't know what the cure to all of societies ills is, but I do know that short term thinking is really hindering our decisions making abilities.

You would think the big banks' risk departments would be the first ones highlighting this type of thing as they contemplate handing out these huge mortgages.

[jlousa]

I trust engineers a lot more then I trust climatologists. Richmond will be fine just like the Netherlands will be.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I trust engineers a lot more then I trust climatologists. Richmond will be fine just like the Netherlands will be.

Engineers have no incentive to include these calculations - in fact they are disincentivized. What if it led to project cancellation?

Second - Netherlands are taking dramatic steps to prepare for the future, to put Richmond beside Netherlands is definitely not serving your point.

As mentioned above, Miami is already experiencing daytime flooding due to swelling ground water.

Do you suppose that engineers were not involved in the billions of real estate developed there in the last decade?

The response to this problem? They use a system similar to CAC to pay for raising road ways, and to install and run 24/7 elaborate water extraction infrastructure.
Or in other words - literally trying to pump their way out of rising oceans around an island.

Lastly, insurance companies in the US are already plugging in the sea level rise scenarios into their premiums and liabilities. The few inches of rise we have already experience are magnifying storm surge damage, see Hurricane Sandy.

Its important to understand that the worse case scenarios, projected out 100 years don't need to come to pass to render areas like Richmond unlivable.

You don't need 6ft sea level rise to breach dikes and flood Richmond.
You need the hydrostatic pressure of another 1-2ft rise over next 2-3 decades to allow ground swell and daily flooding of the entire delta.
I don't imagine living in Richmond with 2-3 inches of ground water inside malls, parking lots, and homes at high tide will be a fun experience.

Certainly easier to brush this aside though and in couple decades whip out the usual - we had no idea it could be this bad, how could governments allow this to happen? What are we supposed to do now? Where do we go!?

[jlousa]

And I will trust the engineers to solve the problem should one arise. This isn't an unsolvable problem even in the worst case predictions. I think holding up the Netherlands is a much better example to look at. If Richmond is under water due to rising sea levels during my lifetime I'll buy every SSP:Vancouver forumer a steak, or should we make it a surf a turf dinner to make light of the situation.

[Tetsuo]

Plus I'd imagine when/if the time comes, they'll be plenty of political capital and will power to get a fix done then. A lot invested to ensure the safety of Lulu and Sea Island.

An easy sell to get things done should the need arise in the future vs. bickering at present time.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I trust engineers a lot more then I trust climatologists. Richmond will be fine just like the Netherlands will be.

Engineers can no doubt come up with a solution, but they aren't paying for it.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by jlousa

And I will trust the engineers to solve the problem should one arise. This isn't an unsolvable problem even in the worst case predictions. I think holding up the Netherlands is a much better example to look at. If Richmond is under water due to rising sea levels during my lifetime I'll buy every SSP:Vancouver forumer a steak, or should we make it a surf a turf dinner to make light of the situation.

This is the most bizarrely Trumpian response.

How is using the Netherlands at all a parallel? Complete inaction and being proactive are somehow synonymous now?

The Netherlands are literally an antithesis to your line of reasoning.

They have completed already, and have additional flood gate projects on the books.

The responsive nature of North American reasoning is going to sink us, pun intended.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rofina

Engineers have no incentive to include these calculations - in fact they are disincentivized. What if it led to project cancellation?

Second - Netherlands are taking dramatic steps to prepare for the future, to put Richmond beside Netherlands is definitely not serving your point.

As mentioned above, Miami is already experiencing daytime flooding due to swelling ground water.

Do you suppose that engineers were not involved in the billions of real estate developed there in the last decade?

The response to this problem? They use a system similar to CAC to pay for raising road ways, and to install and run 24/7 elaborate water extraction infrastructure.
Or in other words - literally trying to pump their way out of rising oceans around an island.

Lastly, insurance companies in the US are already plugging in the sea level rise scenarios into their premiums and liabilities. The few inches of rise we have already experience are magnifying storm surge damage, see Hurricane Sandy.

Its important to understand that the worse case scenarios, projected out 100 years don't need to come to pass to render areas like Richmond unlivable.

You don't need 6ft sea level rise to breach dikes and flood Richmond.
You need the hydrostatic pressure of another 1-2ft rise over next 2-3 decades to allow ground swell and daily flooding of the entire delta.
I don't imagine living in Richmond with 2-3 inches of ground water inside malls, parking lots, and homes at high tide will be a fun experience.

Certainly easier to brush this aside though and in couple decades whip out the usual - we had no idea it could be this bad, how could governments allow this to happen? What are we supposed to do now? Where do we go!?

For Richmond, many of the new projects have their roads raised, some by as much as one to two metres or more. Some of the roads will be raised for the Lansdowne project, but unfortunately not when they tie to the existing main thoroughfares. True that raising ground and pre-loading will not really help if there is soil liquefaction should a severe Earthquake hit, but it will will help a little from rising sea levels.

To encourage less projects to be built in Richmond, Vancouver needs to play its part by allowing bigger projects, and remove the restrictions it currently has.

[jlousa]

Since some people are so concerned, I suggest they read the facts and not some questionable predictions.

City of Richmond 🞵🞵🞵🞵 system
https://www.richmond.ca/services/rdws/dikes.htm

Rest well, city of Richmond is using engineers to tackle the problem.
http://www.richmond-news.com/news/richmond-s-300-million-🞵🞵🞵🞵-plan-forges-ahead-1.15299874

[GlassCity]

Richmond's gonna be just fine. I never knew people not from there were so concerned about it until this thread. All of us in Richmond have always lived perfectly peacefully.

[Metro-One]

Engineering around sea level rise for areas the size of Richmond (and other low level areas of Metro-Vancouver) is not a monumental task given the relatively small area that needs to be protected. This is not the same as trying to protect the entire state of Florida or the entire seaboard of China or the entire nation of Bangladesh. Many cities in developed regions of the world are not going to simply be abondoned and disappear.

Especially in northerly and southerly latitudes where sea level rise will be far less dramatic. It seems that many simple online models always leave out the effects of centrifugal force and other major factors (such as water temperature) when displaying sea level rise.

At 49 degrees north and located in the Pacific our sea level rise will likely be considerably slower and less than at the equator.

Doesn’t mean that we don’t need to plan for the future, but that is already being done.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

it is like everyone here thinks the City of Richmond is just sitting on its 🞵🞵🞵 doing nothing. Richmond knows dykes, they have been there for decades, and it is why Vancouver and other areas see more flooding then Richmond does whenever those king-tides happen. fact of the matter is, people who don't like in Richmond on this forum and talk about all this doom and gloom as a way to critisize people, just like all the West Side hate this forum sees.

Richmond's 🞵🞵🞵🞵 Plan Forges Ahead

As far as the actual dykes go, building and strengthening them is fairly straight forward for the City of Richmond’s head engineer John Irving.

“Considering everything we face on a yearly basis, this isn’t much of a challenge. We have a well-defined perimeter 🞵🞵🞵🞵; it’s actually a lot more challenging for, say, Vancouver where they have low lying areas on a flood plain where there is no 🞵🞵🞵🞵,” he explained.

The city, which has consulted with Dutch engineers and planners, is establishing what it dubs as “superdykes.”

The best existing example of a superdyke is at the Richmond Olympic Oval, where land has been raised to nudge up against the old 🞵🞵🞵🞵. This superdyke will soon continue along an adjacent new condo development, and within a decade a new waterfront park will be raised, from the Dinsmore Bridge to Cambie Road. Further developments to the north will lengthen the superdyke.

Above, a sketch of what artificial sea berms may look like off the foreshore of Sturgeon Bank. The tentatively planned berms will mitigate erosion and protect the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 from sea level rise. City of Richmond photo

[rofina]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Since some people are so concerned, I suggest they read the facts and not some questionable predictions.

City of Richmond 🞵🞵🞵🞵 system
https://www.richmond.ca/services/rdws/dikes.htm

Rest well, city of Richmond is using engineers to tackle the problem.
http://www.richmond-news.com/news/richmond-s-300-million-🞵🞵🞵🞵-plan-forges-ahead-1.15299874

Excellent troll job. I commend you sir.

[David]

I would personally be more worried about the effects of an earthquake and liquefaction if I were buying real estate in Richmond. The entire built up area of the municipality is in the "High / Very High" risk zone - http://www.empr.gov.bc.ca/Mining/Geoscie...ue/Maps/GeoscienceMaps/Pages/2010-3.aspx

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by rofina

Engineers have no incentive to include these calculations - in fact they are disincentivized. What if it led to project cancellation?

Second - Netherlands are taking dramatic steps to prepare for the future, to put Richmond beside Netherlands is definitely not serving your point.

As mentioned above, Miami is already experiencing daytime flooding due to swelling ground water.

Do you suppose that engineers were not involved in the billions of real estate developed there in the last decade?

The response to this problem? They use a system similar to CAC to pay for raising road ways, and to install and run 24/7 elaborate water extraction infrastructure.
Or in other words - literally trying to pump their way out of rising oceans around an island.

Lastly, insurance companies in the US are already plugging in the sea level rise scenarios into their premiums and liabilities. The few inches of rise we have already experience are magnifying storm surge damage, see Hurricane Sandy.

Its important to understand that the worse case scenarios, projected out 100 years don't need to come to pass to render areas like Richmond unlivable.

You don't need 6ft sea level rise to breach dikes and flood Richmond.
You need the hydrostatic pressure of another 1-2ft rise over next 2-3 decades to allow ground swell and daily flooding of the entire delta.
I don't imagine living in Richmond with 2-3 inches of ground water inside malls, parking lots, and homes at high tide will be a fun experience.

Certainly easier to brush this aside though and in couple decades whip out the usual - we had no idea it could be this bad, how could governments allow this to happen? What are we supposed to do now? Where do we go!?

I'm pretty sure there is official guidence for rising sea levels from EGBC, is there not?

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[VarBreStr18]

I read with interest the potentials for problems about Richmond: flooding, rising water table, unstable soil during earthquakes. Yet developers are still developing Richmond like there is no tomorrow. Of course they all like us to believe everything should be fine. If everything is so fine, why do they bother to
build dykes, elevated roadways as preventive measures. I saw the huge compaction at Bridgeport/Sea Island way project. It has been there for almost 2 years now.It may be fine to build on when it is ready, but only as good as there is no lateral force to weaken it. But isn't earthquakes shakes lateral forces? Richmond's proximity to airport is no longer a selling point with the Canada Line in operation. The Evergreen line opens up a new dimension of accessibility to the Tri Cities. Think Richmond will hate me.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by David

I would personally be more worried about the effects of an earthquake and liquefaction if I were buying real estate in Richmond. The entire built up area of the municipality is in the "High / Very High" risk zone - http://www.empr.gov.bc.ca/Mining/Geoscie...ue/Maps/GeoscienceMaps/Pages/2010-3.aspx

This.