Calgary Roads

[srperrycgy]

Originally Posted by craner

Looks like Glenmore is shifting northward - wonder what the reason for that is ?

Probably to allow for an interchange at Richard Rd. in the future.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by craner

Looks like Glenmore is shifting northward - wonder what the reason for that is ?

Lots of room to north of the current alignment. This way they can straighten the road out to. Plus I think they can build the new portion with old road still in use

[The Unknown Poster]

Had the pleasure of being in Calgary for the weekend for the first time. Arrived Friday and was struck by how quickly the snow was cleared. Also immediately struck by how much better your road infrastructure was compared to Winnipeg where our main strategy is to put lighted intersections every block. It was nice to actually drive freely.

In conversation with a local, he did say that while I saw all the ways Winnipeg could be better if they followed Calgary's lead, he said living in Calgary you see all the ways Calgary could be better. Perspective.

Anyway, very quick trip but beautiful city, super friendly people. Only visited one restaurant and that was Broken City (the gf is a vegan and found it on an app she uses) and it the food and service was excellent.

Looking forward to coming back when we can spend more time exploring more than just Calgary Tower!

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by msmariner

Lots of room to north of the current alignment. This way they can straighten the road out to. Plus I think they can build the new portion with old road still in use

Bingo

[craner]

So I noticed the pillars for the 17th Ave. BRT bridge over Deerfoot are in place .... also noticed they didn't leave any room to expand Deerfoot by even one lane in each direction ...

[Mazrim]

Adding more lanes there doesn't actually solve any problems anyways. What they need is a better way to get traffic on and off Deerfoot at 17th Avenue and Memorial.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by craner

So I noticed the pillars for the 17th Ave. BRT bridge over Deerfoot are in place .... also noticed they didn't leave any room to expand Deerfoot by even one lane in each direction ...

I actually agree with the strategy of pushing resources to transit, so am okay with not leaving space for more lanes there (noting there are other bottlenecks that would preclude adding lanes even if they kept more room there).

A full green line is a major priority, starting with the first phase, but seamlessly continuing to additional stages, the immediate next piece being heading north. At the end of the day, that hedges new demand to get to the core over the coming years.

[milomilo]

Is it actually really not wide enough? I'll have a look when I drive through tomorrow but that would be silly if it's the case. I agree lane numbers isn't the big issue, but if all the other new bridges are built with room then it was all for nothing if this one wasn't.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I actually agree with the strategy of pushing resources to transit, so am okay with not leaving space for more lanes there (noting there are other bottlenecks that would preclude adding lanes even if they kept more room there).

A full green line is a major priority, starting with the first phase, but seamlessly continuing to additional stages, the immediate next piece being heading north. At the end of the day, that hedges new demand to get to the core over the coming years.

That's some great logic on your part. We've fucked up other locations so why not this one?

[milomilo]

He's correct that there isn't much point putting much more road capacity onto Deerfoot. Those cars are mostly going to be headed downtown and we don't want more doing that at at peak hours. If we add more capacity to the core, it has to be other modes of transport at this point otherwise we will just make traffic worse.

The most important thing would be to clean up the interchanges so that the through traffic can get through better.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I agree lane numbers isn't the big issue, but if all the other new bridges are built with room then it was all for nothing if this one wasn't.

How many new bridges ones are actually built with extra room, though? Thinking of some interchanges I drive by regularly, you can tell that the new interchanges at Macleod Trail and 162 Avenue/Sun Valley Boulevard isn't built for expansion, and neither is the one at Crowchild Trail and Flanders Avenue.

I've only been through the new 16th Avenue and Bowfort Road interchange once or twice but I think that one does have room, which is probably related to being in close proximity to the ring road. I believe Glenmore over Ogden Road also has room which is probably so it can properly connect to the Barlow Trail interchange they have planned.

On Deerfoot, it doesn't look like the 17th Avenue or Memorial Drive bridges were built with expansion beyond 6 core lanes in mind.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

How many new bridges ones are actually built with extra room, though? Thinking of some interchanges I drive by regularly, you can tell that the new interchanges at Macleod Trail and 162 Avenue/Sun Valley Boulevard isn't built for expansion, and neither is the one at Crowchild Trail and Flanders Avenue.

I've only been through the new 16th Avenue and Bowfort Road interchange once or twice but I think that one does have room, which is probably related to being in close proximity to the ring road. I believe Glenmore over Ogden Road also has room which is probably so it can properly connect to the Barlow Trail interchange they have planned.

On Deerfoot, it doesn't look like the 17th Avenue or Memorial Drive bridges were built with expansion beyond 6 core lanes in mind.

Yeah it's mostly just the very far out ones that seem to have extra room, especially in the south where they already have 8 through lanes - which as I've said before is stupid as everyone knows the right lane will end, then end again as the road goes from 4 to 3 to 2 lanes, meaning nobody uses the rightmost lane.

One of the girders went up on the BRT bridge last night. It looks like you might just be able to fit in 8 lanes - it would leave very little shoulder, but no one cares about that here anyway. But really it looks like the intention is for it to remain 6 lanes.

[speedog]

Speaking of roads, I was doing some surfing yesterday and discovered an interesting little tidbit about the CoC with respect to the John Laurie/McKnight Boulevards realignment proposal - it is purported that the CoC already owns the 26 or so properties it figures will have to make way for this realignment to occur and that the CoC has owned these properties for over a dozen years already. If this indeed true, how long before the CoC moves forward with this project or are there other constraints/priorities that are taking precidence?

Kind of like the McKnight Boulevard expansion between Edmonton Trail and 4th Street NW - another project that has been quietly shelved but the CoC is still acquiring properties in that corridor to probably ease any future expansion.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Acey

Every single bridge structure on Stoney and Henday?

I referring more to Calgary than Alberta government projects, but you're definitely right about that!

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I referring more to Calgary than Alberta government projects, but you're definitely right about that!

How big are they buiilt? I noticed a few plans for provincial overpasses that were built with ultimate capacity of 10 lanes, although to me it looks like you could fit in even more with just a centre barrier rather than the grass median.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by speedog

Speaking of roads, I was doing some surfing yesterday and discovered an interesting little tidbit about the CoC with respect to the John Laurie/McKnight Boulevards realignment proposal - it is purported that the CoC already owns the 26 or so properties it figures will have to make way for this realignment to occur and that the CoC has owned these properties for over a dozen years already. If this indeed true, how long before the CoC moves forward with this project or are there other constraints/priorities that are taking precidence?

Kind of like the McKnight Boulevard expansion between Edmonton Trail and 4th Street NW - another project that has been quietly shelved but the CoC is still acquiring properties in that corridor to probably ease any future expansion.

The City of Calgary has a "slush fund" of money to purchase properties in defined areas for the purpose of future infrastructure projects. I believe the account is called "Program 565" or "Program 645", anyway its got a really funny name. This Program is a legacy of the Glenmore 5th Street and causeway improvements. The left over money was reinvested into future projects.

This mystery program allows city administration to buy properties when they come available on the market rather than use expropriation or other means. When the project proceeds, the properties all ready purchased are sold to the project and the funds available for reinvestment. The fund is completely self sustaining.

Every few months you will see weird property purchases and sales listed as incamera or closed session items on the agenda. This is part of the reason why CoC has so many incamera sessions.

Former Councillor Andre Chabot and Mayor Nenshi werte about the most knowledgeable persons on council regarding the program.

[DoubleK]

^^^

I think it's important to note that there is nothing untoward about handling those land purchases in that fashion. If anyone catches wind that the city is thinking about buying a particular parcels, a land speculator would swoop in and buy it hoping to make quick buck.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

If anyone catches wind that the city is thinking about buying a particular parcels, a land speculator would swoop in and buy it hoping to make quick buck.

Isn't expropriation done at "market value"? I don't think a speculator would have much upside, unless they got the property at a meaningful discount.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Isn't expropriation done at "market value"? I don't think a speculator would have much upside, unless they got the property at a meaningful discount.

Expropriation is a forced sale, they would use appraisals to determine the value but it's not an exact science. It is almost always is at a premium to the "market value".

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Acey

Depends on location; Stoney and Henday range from 6 to 12 lane ultimate stages, with almost all widening done median-side. Some places are already at ultimate, like Stoney under 61 Ave, SB Stoney at 22X, etc.

Mainline Henday NE will require widening of bridges at a couple places for a 10 lane ultimate, but it will be akin to the Stoney widening over West Nose Creek and done with relatively little difficulty.

It looks to me that you could easily add another lane, maybe 2, at 61 ave and keep full size shoulders?