Cambie Corridor Updates

[phesto]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Wow, brutal. What is the above ground Capstan station costing?

At this rate, 33rd will never get built. They've already "redeveloped" around there.

It's actually referenced in that City document:

"The November 15, 2017, Vancouver Sun article cites a cost of “about $27.8 million” for the above ground Canada Line station at Capstan Way in Richmond, of which the City of Richmond has reportedly collected $19.36 million from developers near the proposed station over the past six years in the form of amenity contributions".

I bet there is some form of subway/LRT along 41st before there is ever a station at 33rd.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Thanks for the detail. So the big question is how much more than $20m will this cost? Another $20m could surely be found from a mix of government levels and Translink. It's a rounding error for the Provincial government.

Phesto beat me to it, but for comparison the much less complicated Capstan station is budgeted at $28m, but apparently 57th might easily be triple that. TransLink's 'ballpark' number was $90m. (Stations on the Broadway extension are apparently budgeted at $100m each). While there should be more money from Langara Gardens, it won't get close to that sort of number.

It seems as if TransLink are the ones pouring cold water on the idea. They wrote a letter on February 26, 2016 to the City that said "Constructing a new below grade station on operable tracks is unprecedented and presents significant engineering challenges that increase the complexity of station construction.”

“The station project would require full funding from a third party” and that “Such funding would be required to cover all costs, including (but not necessarily limited to)” all capital costs – “including station construction, additional fleet to maintain service hours to account for longer travel times, upgrades to train control and power systems, and changes to system wayfinding” – as well as all operating costs, all planning, engineering and implementation costs (including the cost of maintaining service during construction), and all costs to amend various agreements (e.g., with YVR and the Canada Line owner), and costs “associated with service disruption or slower total travel times resulting from station construction.”

They also said “even if the [57th Avenue] station is fully funded by a third party, the implementation timeline is expected to be no less than ten years and may be prolonged” due to significant engineering challenges that would increase the complexity of station construction.

That doesn't sound like a willing partner, hot to trot, but it explains why the station may not show up any time soon. Obviously priorities can be changed, and there will be a replacement for The Mayors' Council on Regional Transportation 2014 plan, which didn't include a station at 57th Avenue.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by phesto

It's actually referenced in that City document:

"The November 15, 2017, Vancouver Sun article cites a cost of “about $27.8 million” for the above ground Canada Line station at Capstan Way in Richmond, of which the City of Richmond has reportedly collected $19.36 million from developers near the proposed station over the past six years in the form of amenity contributions".

I bet there is some form of subway/LRT along 41st before there is ever a station at 33rd.

Damn, those underground stations sure are pricey.

As for 33rd, hope is not completely lost. The Heather lands redevelopment could help pay, but ~$100M is asking a lot.

[officedweller]

Thanks for the info - good to see that land and some money is being set aside.

Originally Posted by Changing City

...

It seems as if TransLink are the ones pouring cold water on the idea. They wrote a letter on February 26, 2016 to the City that said "Constructing a new below grade station on operable tracks is unprecedented and presents significant engineering challenges that increase the complexity of station construction.”

Hmm...
TTC built North York Station in the 1990s.

However, both 33rd and 57th stations are probably close to the surface, meaning that unless there are separate station houses/entrances at street level for north and southbound platforms, an underpass would need to tunnelled below the operating guideway.
i.e. underpass station design like at 41st-Oakridge and 49th-Langara, rather than mezzanines, because the guidelay is not deep enough to allow for mezzanines.

33rd would be harder because it is surrounded by rock that would need blasting.

The cheapest way to build the stations would be to construct outside platforms with separate stationhouses from grade (though still costly, no doubt). That would mean northbound entrance on the east side of Cambie and southbound entrance on the median or west side of Cambie, each with separate faregates, escalators and elevator. With Compass cards, you don't really need a cross-platform passage within the faregates.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The cheapest way to build the stations would be to construct outside platforms with separate stationhouses from grade (though still costly, no doubt). That would mean northbound entrance on the east side of Cambie and southbound entrance on the median or west side of Cambie, each with separate faregates, escalators and elevator. With Compass cards, you don't really need a cross-platform passage within the faregates.

Then they'd need to build an overpass inside the fare zone, lest public opinion of the design turn from "creative" and "peculiar" to "stupid" and "inconvenient." PR is worth its weight in gold for TransLink right now.

[officedweller]

You mean a ped overpass / walkway over top of Cambie Street?

I think - can't say first hand - but NYC may have stations like that (circa 1920).

See Fig. 1 here - side platform no mezzanine.


https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Rapid_Transit_Station_Design_(1920)

Confirmed - NYC has "mono-directional" station entrances:

Know what a station entrance looks like. Entrances that are always open have green lights, known as "Globe Lamps."
Exit only or part-time entrances have red globe lamps, or may not have any lamps at all. Some private properties have subway
entrances. However, some entrances are within private properties, and these entrances are not always visible from the outside.
Also noting, some entrances are mono-directional, meaning that they only serve an entrance to a platform for boarding trains
to one destination. This usually happens at stations without an underpass or overpass to transfer to the opposite platform for
return service. There are some exceptions to this, as unlabeled overpasses and underpasses are present (like Bleecker Street
on the (6)), mostly at transfer stations or stations with a central fare control area.

https://www.wikihow.com/Ride-the-New-York-City-Subway

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You mean a ped overpass / walkway over top of Cambie Street?

Well, Cambie's got a median in the middle (so not much difficulty trying to support a bridge), and a station at 33rd or 57th should have a reasonably-sized chunk of empty space on either side of the street; it's not entirely impractical, it's just "mezzanine, entrance, platform" instead of "entrance, mezzanine, platform." If the concern is mobility access, station/platform design might allow the elevators to extend up to the overpass.

Just saying, TransLink's already got a bad rep, and "it's the same kind of station NYC uses" might not be enough of a sales pitch.

[Feathered Friend]

Here is a first look at Phase C of the Pearson Dogwood redevelopment. Like the other phases, there will be a mix of market and supportive housing, as well as public amenities. In this case, those take the form of a therapy pool and a 69 space daycare.

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2018/03/04...ood-phase-c-brings-nature-into-the-city/

[s211]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2018/03/04...ood-phase-c-brings-nature-into-the-city/

I don't get the dark base. Is that the same ghetto exposed rusting steel that new project on West 6th has? In my circles, not one person likes that project.

[GenWhy?]

^Odd, we hear the opposite, including from a few that we know that live in the building. Considering the costs with that finish, and that this has lots of supportive housing, I doubt it.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Personally, I think the dark base and terraces are a nice change of pace from the cookie-cutter cubes that usually make up Vancouver's podiums.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by s211

I don't get the dark base. Is that the same ghetto exposed rusting steel that new project on West 6th has? In my circles, not one person likes that project.

Oh that's totally the opposite of my circles

I would like to see some of the dark material incorporated into the top of the podium and tower

[officedweller]

Story at UrbanYVR on Langara Gardens
across the street from Dogwood Pearson:

Massive redevelopment of Langara Gardens to add 2,000 new homes
Up to 28-storeys proposed in redevelopment of Langara Gardens
http://urbanyvr.com/langara-gardens-redevelopment


Langara Gardens redevelopment concept. Credit: City of Vancouver
http://urbanyvr.com/langara-gardens-redevelopment


Artists rendering of the redevelopment of Langara Gardens. Credit: City of Vancouver
http://urbanyvr.com/langara-gardens-redevelopment

[osirisboy]

Ugh so boring. It looks like every other large scale development. It would be nice if just one could actually be urban

[GenWhy?]

Open House yesterday by the City was a zoo in such a tiny CRU. Lots of older people merely talking about Phases 1 and 2 (nothing against people over the age of 60, just an observation).

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Ugh so boring. It looks like every other large scale development. It would be nice if just one could actually be urban

Urban in what way?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Ugh so boring. It looks like every other large scale development. It would be nice if just one could actually be urban

True. Worst type would be Joyce/Collingwood neighbourhood.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Urban in what way?

Podiums with mixed-use developments: allowing more offices, retail, hotels, institutional uses, underground/overhead passes with retail, well-integrated urban plazas instead of just grass field parks, etc.

The only changes I see that they have improved upon are:
1. Allowing taller podiums than previous developments
2. Taller towers in a suburban neighbourhood.

[GenWhy?]

25,000 sqft of new retail and existing retail will be upgraded and renovated and possible other services. Dogwood south of this site will supposedly have 131,281 sqft of commercial space, 213,514 sqft of institutional healthcare related space, and 70 space childcare centre.

Not everyone wants to get into a Oakridge-style development.

The future Canada Line stop is still undecided at 57th Ave, so we'll see where this area goes, knowing the stretches nroth and south on Cambie are to be purely residential outside the train stop TOD locations.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I don't see the SkyTrain station anywhere. Seriously hoping that they don't just continue as planned and belatedly realize they don't have any room for it.

[GenWhy?]

Future Skytrain is pegged for the intersection of Cambie and 57th Ave. Future meaning, "maybe". It's in the Cambie Corridor documents too.