General STO News and Rapibus System

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

(And I'd say it's probably a good idea to check out what the CAQ's positions are regarding funding for transit projects. )

I have. God help us all.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I have. God help us all.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What would make more sense?

There is no slam-dunk, obvious no-brainer option for bringing rail-based transit to the Gatineau side of the river.

Of all of those being proposed, Aylmer (Optimist)'s is certainly the best of the lot. (See the diagram posted earlier on this thread as "the Greg Fergus option".)

It would be still be a huge challenge to get that done, but in terms of what would work best for most Gatinois (and also Ottawans working in Quebec), that's the best bang for our buck by far.

BRT or some form of rail to Bayview has comparatively few advantages relative to the number of our scarce eggs we'd have to put in that basket.

Now, if we had a possibility for interlining lines from Gatineau on the Confederation line to and from downtown Ottawa... we might have something to talk about.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is no slam-dunk, obvious no-brainer option for bringing rail-based transit to the Gatineau side of the river.

Of all of those being proposed, Aylmer (Optimist)'s is certainly the best of the lot. (See the diagram posted earlier on this thread as "the Greg Fergus option".)

It would be still be a huge challenge to get that done, but in terms of what would work best for most Gatinois (and also Ottawans working in Quebec), that's the best bang for our buck by far.

BRT or some form of rail to Bayview has comparatively few advantages relative to the number of our scarce eggs we'd have to put in that basket.

Now, if we had a possibility for interlining lines from Gatineau on the Confederation line to and from downtown Ottawa... we might have something to talk about.

Oh my! This can't be. We can never consider that. I am just waiting for the responses.

We better build over any possibility of this as soon as possible, as we are doing with the Trillium Line.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Oh my! This can't be. We can never consider that. I am just waiting for the responses.

We better build over any possibility of this as soon as possible, as we are doing with the Trillium Line.

Ah yes. A gazillion other cities in the world can do it. But not Ottawa.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ah yes. A gazillion other cities in the world can do it. But not Ottawa.

I would argue that most (though not all) cities interline out in the suburbs, where demand is lower. In the core (where frequencies are higher) they use interchanges. Bayview is pretty close to the core and will rapidly become part of it as the RendezVous LeBreton project comes to fruition.

I will remind you that we will be interlining past Lincoln Fields, which is a decent place for a split. If we are going to add a second split, it should be in the east end to balance the load (somewhere past Blair would be a good).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What congestion are you talking about in downtown Hull? Not saying there isn't any... just wondering about which choke points you have in mind.

Hull is just a total mess for personal vehicles. Where isn't there congestion.

If you're referring more to buses, I would point to Alexandre-Taché between Montcalm and Eddy, especially the bus loop in front of Terraces de la Chaudière where it's nearly impossible for bus drivers to turn onto A-T.

Other then the few places with bus lanes (A-T near UQO, Maisonneuve and Portage Bridge), they're stuck in the same traffic as every other vehicle.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BRT or some form of rail to Bayview has comparatively few advantages relative to the number of our scarce eggs we'd have to put in that basket.

I guarantee you, the ridership on even a single-station extension across PoW to the downtown Hull civil-servant Borg Cube would far exceed projections.

I will never understand the timidity of Ottawa, Gatineau, and the provinces which they are supposedly in, on this front, and the best window that has existed in the post-electric-street-railway era to run interprovincial rail transit, on ANY corridor, across the Ottawa River, will slam shut as soon after either of the two impending provincial elections, and may not open again in our lifetimes.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I would argue that most (though not all) cities interline out in the suburbs, where demand is lower. In the core (where frequencies are higher) they use interchanges. Bayview is pretty close to the core and will rapidly become part of it as the RendezVous LeBreton project comes to fruition.

I will remind you that we will be interlining past Lincoln Fields, which is a decent place for a split. If we are going to add a second split, it should be in the east end to balance the load (somewhere past Blair would be a good).

Definitely, Manhattan does not interline its subways and Bayview is a short walk from Parliament Hill.

The question has to be asked. Will the number of office buildings on Lebreton Flats rival traditional downtown and will a shopping area rivaling the Rideau Centre be built there? If it remains mostly condo towers, which is my impression, how can it truly be the destination that you are suggesting?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Definitely, Manhattan does not interline its subways

And Paris only has one interlined subway line so you never have to connect from one line to another.

and Bayview is a short walk from Parliament Hill.

I never said it was.

The question has to be asked. Will the number of office buildings on Lebreton Flats rival traditional downtown and will a shopping area rivaling the Rideau Centre be built there? If it remains mostly condo towers, which is my impression, how can it truly be the destination that you are suggesting?

That is the question. RendezVous LeBreton is wanting to make their development a destination. Maybe it won't have many office towers, but they certainly want it to be an entertainment centre (unlike the CTC).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

And Paris only has one interlined subway line so you never have to connect from one line to another.



I never said it was.



That is the question. RendezVous LeBreton is wanting to make their development a destination. Maybe it won't have many office towers, but they certainly want it to be an entertainment centre (unlike the CTC).

Time will tell about Lebreton, but condo towers do not make a destination.

Perhaps Paris does not do interlining very much but a lot of cities do especially when there are limits to how much tunneling can be done. Stockholm does a lot of interlining and because of geography, so does San Francisco. Our geography is not as difficult as SF but our geography is problematic because of the canal and the rivers.

I should also point out that with exception of very large cities like London, Paris, Berlin etc., typically rail transit does take you to the centre of the city. Even in Manhattan, most of the subways take you within walking distance of Time Square.

[Truenorth00]

A great article on why transferring is actually preferable over interlining in many cases (from a professional transit planner):

http://humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

Ottawa-Gatineau residents need to get over the ridiculous fetish for one-seat rides. That will not work in a city of 1+ million.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

A great article on why transferring is actually preferable over interlining in many cases:

http://humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

Ottawa-Gatineau residents need to get over the ridiculous fetish for one-seat rides. That will not work in a city of 1+ million.

What if they turned the Gatineau train east at Somerset? Send it along there to under the canal and then under the river and then use Montreal Rd for the rest of the route.

Then the people of downtown get more transit too.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What if they turned the Gatineau train east at Somerset? Send it along there to under the canal and then under the river and then use Montreal Rd for the rest of the route.

Then the people of downtown get more transit too.

Maybe in a century when they have the funds to build another subway in Ottawa, mere kms from where there is one today.

Do people in this forum think transit dollars rain from the sky?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Maybe in a century when they have the funds to build another subway in Ottawa, mere kms from where there is one today.

Do people in this forum think transit dollars rain from the sky?

Fine, just cross the bridge into Gatineau.

In election years, transit money pours down from the heavens.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Fine, just cross the bridge into Gatineau.

Which is ultimately what will happen.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

In election years, transit money pours down from the heavens.

After giving Ottawa $3 billion between Stage 1 and 2, money for subways will be a long shot. I won't say it's zero. But about as infinitesimally close to zero as you can get.

There are so many other areas of the province that need investment of all sorts. And those offer higher electoral payoffs too.

What you will see is everyone campaigning in Ottawa and talking about the brand new LRT and how they will extend it (Stage 2) after they get elected. You will not see new money pledged, over and above this.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Do people in this forum think transit dollars rain from the sky?

Yes

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yes

Just being fair, the Canadian government thinks so too

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If you're referring more to buses, I would point to Alexandre-Taché between Montcalm and Eddy, especially the bus loop in front of Terraces de la Chaudière where it's nearly impossible for bus drivers to turn onto A-T.

Other then the few places with bus lanes (A-T near UQO, Maisonneuve and Portage Bridge), they're stuck in the same traffic as every other vehicle.

The following roads in the Vieux-Hull have buses-only lanes:

Maisonneuve
Allumettières
Montcalm
Alexandre-Taché
Portage (bridge)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hull is just a total mess for personal vehicles. Where isn't there congestion.
.

Well, I don't commute to and from there but I usually drive there a couple of times a week during the AM or PM peak due to various family obligations.

There is traffic for sure but to suggest it's nightmarish most of the time is a great exaggeration. There are lots of "outs" available to drivers on side streets and such, and as a result I never really plan for a lot of extra time for the portions of my trip that includes Vieux-Hull when I drive there during rush hour.

(Where I plan for extra time on rush hour trips are the Gatineau River crossings: Pont des Draveurs, Alonzo-Wright, Lady-Aberdeen. But not really in central Hull.)