HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #5961  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 6:23 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,675
Group questions LRT accessibility for visually impaired
Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians meeting with city officials Monday

CBC News
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 11:47 AM ET Last Updated: Jan 29, 2018 11:47 AM ET


Just when Ottawa's new light rail system will be up and running remains an open question, but some blind and visually impaired transit users are already raising concerns the trains won't be properly equipped to meet their needs.

City officials will meet Monday evening with the local chapter of the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians to discuss those concerns.

Alliance president Peter Field said the group has already heard about some features of the new train cars that might be difficult for passengers to operate, including buttons to open doors.

"As a blind or visually impaired passenger, how are you going to find those?" Field asked on CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning.

Field said the city first met with the alliance two years ago to discuss the project, but there's been no followup to address potential problems.

"One of the commitments they made to us in 2016 is that we would have a chance to look at a car before they're live, and that would help a lot. But that hasn't happened."

He said beyond basic issues, the alliance would like to see the system embrace digital navigation, allowing visually impaired passengers to use their smartphones to help find their way through stations.

Field said other cities around the world have deployed similar systems, and he said the alliance suggested Ottawa follow their lead.

"We talked about building it to be accessible from the beginning, and this is one of the things we pointed to, and at that point there really wasn't much take-up on it."

According to an overview of the Alstom Citadis on the Confederation Line website, the trains, which are currently undergoing testing, feature "easy accessibility for all," as well as "real-time display information" on board.

OC Transpo's $12-million automated bus stop announcement system came under fire recently when visually impaired passengers complained it failed so often it was practically useless.

The Canadian Transportation Agency fined OC Transpo $25,000 in December following a CBC story about the failures.

The city installed a system to announce bus stop locations two years ago, which helps visually impaired riders, but the system was only installed after two fines from the Canadian Transportation Authority.

Monday's meeting between the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians and city officials is scheduled for 7 p.m. in the Festival Room at Ottawa City Hall.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-blind-visually-impaired-accessible-1.4508380
     
     
  #5962  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 7:36 PM
User Name User Name is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 32
Canada 151!!!!











........ or maybe 152
     
     
  #5963  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 11:30 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,401
I wonder if they could get to the point of running tracks thorough Rideau if they'd open up the line with Rideau opening later. It's such a key station though. Maybe if they could get the station partially open, e.g. the West concourse into the mall while finishing the East one after

I've noticed one giant hole on the North side of queen at Parliament station is now filled, and they seem to be making good progress on the south side, so maybe it's not as fargone as we think
     
     
  #5964  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 11:39 PM
Catenary Catenary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
They successfully did it when the Transitway was being built during the 80's and 90's and i don't see a problem why they can't use the same principle here as well. Remember the transitway didn't open all at once, certain sections were opened while the rest were under construction and transit ridership increased during that time. Right now with what we have is a nightmare and at least opening the Confederation line as soon as possible will shorten commute times compared with what we have now.
The difference is that a bus can get on and off the Transitway, you don't have to switch vehicles. In addition, it was building towards the final system, each stretch to open was a lot easier to justify. Opening the Confederation line early is highly unlikely. The bus detours at rush hour are not unreasonably slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Group questions LRT accessibility for visually impaired
Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians meeting with city officials Monday

CBC News
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 11:47 AM ET Last Updated: Jan 29, 2018 11:47 AM ET


The city installed a system to announce bus stop locations two years ago, which helps visually impaired riders, but the system was only installed after two fines from the Canadian Transportation Authority.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-blind-visually-impaired-accessible-1.4508380
I think the NSAS is a little more than 2 years old...
     
     
  #5965  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 2:22 AM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,116
"Buttons to open doors"

I know that LRT trains have that, but from my understanding, the Confederation Line's doors will open and close all doors automatically as it enters and exits station just like any other rapid transit system.

Classic LRT like Calgary requires passengers to press the button to enter/exit. Same with Trillium.
     
     
  #5966  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 3:25 AM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
"Buttons to open doors"

I know that LRT trains have that, but from my understanding, the Confederation Line's doors will open and close all doors automatically as it enters and exits station just like any other rapid transit system.

Classic LRT like Calgary requires passengers to press the button to enter/exit. Same with Trillium.
According to this (Q4) that won't always be the case.

But during peak periods, for sure.
     
     
  #5967  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 4:24 AM
Admiral Nelson Admiral Nelson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
I think the NSAS is a little more than 2 years old...
OC Transpo website cites Fall 2010 as the NSAS intro date, so over 7 years old at this point
     
     
  #5968  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 11:07 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
According to this (Q4) that won't always be the case.

But during peak periods, for sure.
Isn't this the same group that got all up in arms about the crosstown in Toronto having all centre platforms and wanted them banned from the building code? Also as to how they find the buttons it's the same as the LINT trains, the buttons emit a beeping sound so a blind user can find them.

I'm pretty sure at places like Hurdman and any of the underground stations the doors will always be opened, but I'm glad on a -30 day they won't be opening all doors to allow 3 people to get on at Tremblay.
     
     
  #5969  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 2:28 PM
roger1818's Avatar
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 6,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I'm pretty sure at places like Hurdman and any of the underground stations the doors will always be opened, but I'm glad on a -30 day they won't be opening all doors to allow 3 people to get on at Tremblay.
Agreed. One compromise could be to have an "accessible" door that opens at all stations automatically. Platform "markings" could guide the visually impaired to that door (and conversely to the exit).
     
     
  #5970  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 3:13 PM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
The difference is that a bus can get on and off the Transitway, you don't have to switch vehicles. In addition, it was building towards the final system, each stretch to open was a lot easier to justify. Opening the Confederation line early is highly unlikely. The bus detours at rush hour are not unreasonably slow.



I think the NSAS is a little more than 2 years old...
Seriously, I have taken buses during rush hours and the were many occasions where the traffic jam was so bad the bus actually had to stop especially on the queensway. I also take it you dont live in gatineau where in the morning i take an STO bus to wellington then have to walk to slater to catch an OC bus. Its gets brutal when it is very cold during the winter. I really cant wait for the train so my bus can drop me off at Lyon station and the i can transfer a whole lot quicker.

As long as the guideway, poles and wires and stations like Lyon, U ottawa to blair are complete they could start the train and finish with Rideau later. They can still do it its just a matter if RTG is willing to go that route. Anyway i think the City may force them to do that since they still want to show the public that it was all worth it and to get them properly adjusted before stage 2 construction begins.
     
     
  #5971  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 4:37 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
According to this (Q4) that won't always be the case.

But during peak periods, for sure.
Seems like a good idea on paper. No reason to open the 7(-14) doors at Iris to let two people in or out. But I hope the City doesn't go too far with this in order to save a few dollars. If a station has a dozen people in line and it takes them a few seconds to try and figure out if the doors will open themselves or if they have to press the button, it could cause unnecessary stress for the riders (on its own, not a big deal, but it adds up) and delays.

For consistency's sake, some stations should have all doors open at all time (such as underground stations where less heating/cooling energy will be wasted) and stations that see consistent ridership throughout the day (uOttawa).

BTW, thanks for that report. Never seen it before.
     
     
  #5972  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2018, 12:47 AM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,675
City responds to LRT accessibility concerns

CBC News
Posted: Jan 30, 2018 12:16 PM ET Last Updated: Jan 30, 2018 12:16 PM ET


The City of Ottawa says discussions about the accessibility of its new light rail system continue with a variety of groups, and is promising to keep an eye on emerging technologies that could make the system easier to navigate for people with disabilities.

City officials met Monday evening with the local chapter of the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians to discuss concerns about whether the trains will be properly equipped to meet the needs of some blind and visually impaired transit users.

Pat Scrimgeour, the city's director of transit customer assistance and planning, didn't attend the meeting, but told CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning Tuesday that about 25 people were there in person, plus another 10 connected by phone to ask city officials questions.

The alliance's president, Peter Field, told Ottawa Morning Monday the group has concerns about a number of features including buttons to open train doors.

Scrimgeour said Tuesday that all doors will open automatically at busy stops and indoor stops, but "at quieter times and at colder stations we'll keep the doors closed, except when people need to get on or off."

As for how blind and visually impaired persons will find the buttons, Scrimgeour said they'll use the existing Trillium line's doors as a model.

"They're consistently located with the trains we have now, which people have been using successfully for years. And of course, as with everything about the system, we'll be introducing all of our customers ... to all of the features, all of the differences between the travel experience they have now and the one they'll have in the future when the O-Trains open."

Field was also disappointed with the lack of followup from the city after meeting with the alliance nearly two years ago. He also said the city promised in 2016 to show the group a train car before the system goes live, but that hasn't happened.

Scrimgeour stopped short of making that promise Tuesday, saying they're "eager" to show off the line and its features to all customers, and that they'll see if they can fit a viewing into their schedule.

"We're going to try a number of things. Trying it when it is in service is also an idea because then you get the idea of what the station will sound like, what the station will feel like when there's hundreds of people in it," Srimgeour said.

"We're dealing with a number of groups. [The alliance] is one of them.... We're happy to continue to stay in touch."

Field also called on the city to adopt and install a digital navigation system that would allow visually impaired passengers to use their smartphones to help find their way through stations.

Scrimgeour said the city is keeping an eye on the emerging technology, which uses small, low-energy Bluetooth transmitters and is currently being used at some underground stops in London, U.K., and in Toronto.

"We're watching it, and we're trying to find out if that's the right technology. It seems to be the leading technology but it's really early-going," he said.

OC Transpo's $12-million automated bus stop announcement system came under fire recently when visually impaired passengers complained it failed so often it was practically useless.

The Canadian Transportation Agency fined OC Transpo $25,000 in December following a CBC story about the failures.

The city installed a system to announce bus stop locations two years ago, which helps visually impaired riders, but the system was only installed after two fines from the Canadian Transportation Authority.

CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-blind-visually-impaired-accessible-city-response-1.4509998
     
     
  #5973  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2018, 2:03 AM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,116
     
     
  #5974  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2018, 5:04 PM
HighwayStar's Avatar
HighwayStar HighwayStar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: PHX (by way of YOW)
Posts: 1,200
Looking good... but interesting that there's a non-trivial amount of snow in front of the elevators and on the platform itself... guess there's not a whole lot of protection from the elements... and I really hope it's not just a giant wind tunnel.
     
     
  #5975  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2018, 5:18 PM
roger1818's Avatar
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 6,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Looking good... but interesting that there's a non-trivial amount of snow in front of the elevators and on the platform itself...
The snow melters probably aren't turned on.

Quote:
guess there's not a whole lot of protection from the elements...
We kind of already knew that these are shelters not full enclosures.

Quote:
and I really hope it's not just a giant wind tunnel.
With an opening at both ends for the trains to enter and exit, there isn't much that can be done about that, on the platforms at least. The fact that the snow is relatively even without any drifting or bare patches indicates wind isn't likely a huge problem (at least at Blair)
     
     
  #5976  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2018, 9:12 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,116
Nice picture of the Transportation Building and Rideau Station's west entrance.



More pictures of the Rideau Centre expansion can be found at the source;

http://gmld.ca/portfolio/cf-rideau-centre/

Random question, and I'm sorry if I've asked this before, why are subway entrance doors always stainless-steel? I feel like it's the same in Montreal and Toronto.
     
     
  #5977  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 3:59 AM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,029
Good Day.

and elevator doors, and hand-rails, and escalator inside sidewalls....

At a guess, for easier day-to-day maintenance and long-term maintainability at lower cost on high wear-and-tear localized surfaces.
It tends to stay cleaner for longer on its own, is easier and faster to wash, and you don't need to repaint it at all, as the show of dings and scratches is automatically minimized.
Thus it looks better, and costs less, for far longer. At a guess.

EnJoy!
     
     
  #5978  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 2:44 PM
roger1818's Avatar
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 6,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
At a guess, for easier day-to-day maintenance and long-term maintainability at lower cost on high wear-and-tear localized surfaces.
It tends to stay cleaner for longer on its own, is easier and faster to wash, and you don't need to repaint it at all, as the show of dings and scratches is automatically minimized.
Thus it looks better, and costs less, for far longer.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I am curious what other material J.OT13 would rather see used. Powder coated steel (either carbon or stainless)? Painted wood? Anodized aluminum? Carbon fibre? Other? Of those the only other reasonable option would be powder coated steel but it isn't as durable as stainless steel.
     
     
  #5979  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 3:02 PM
waterloowarrior's Avatar
waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
National Capital Region
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 9,255
New handover date: November 2, 2018. Opening by the end of November.
     
     
  #5980  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 3:03 PM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 619
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-lrt-date-announced-today-1.4520183

Now im furious, looks like what I overheard from the busdriver was correct. Like give me a break a Nov 2 handover virtually gaurantees a December start which gives us no time to adjust while Stage 2 construction is supposed to start in Q1 of 2019.

Is there anyone else just as pissed as I am?
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:43 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.