stal̕əw̓asəm (Riverview) Bridge (Pattullo Bridge Replacement) | U/C

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by libtard

Render of the new Tappan Zee bridge in New York. Notice the shoulder

why can't we have something like that here. the only 2 that come close are golden ears and port mann.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Remember where you live.

Only here would they replace a too small old bridge with a NEW too small bridge

Regarding the underbuilt new bridge, you got it exactly! Thanks for that.

But tell me, please: what does where I live have to do with this?

[Pinion]

He probably doesn't know you live in Paris. Vancouver is famous for underbuilding everything.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by libtard

New bay bridge in San Francisco. Notice the shoulder

Shoulders on both sides! That's just crazy!

But Yes that's how it should be done. for some reason we don't do that here. Also with highways. Highway 17 is hilarious! Some sections have absolutely no shoulder space and then some have wide shoulders, no standardization whatsoever

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Pinion

He probably doesn't know you live in Paris. Vancouver is famous for underbuilding everything.

No kiddiing!! It's as if there's a sort of "think small" jinx on the city, or something.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Regarding the underbuilt new bridge, you got it exactly! Thanks for that.

But tell me, please: what does where I live have to do with this?

Sorry Trofirhen but that was actually for the post right before yours, but you snuck one in before I clicked "submit reply"

But ya, the too small bridge comment applies to everyone

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

No kiddiing!! It's as if there's a sort of "think small" jinx on the city, or something.

Think small has become a local obsession here. The sad fact was once upon a time it was the exact opposite. We thought on a grand scale and achieved dizzying heights as a result, but things changed once the hipster doofus crowd came around.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Think small has become a local obsession here. The sad fact was once upon a time it was the exact opposite. We thought on a grand scale and achieved dizzying heights as a result, but things changed once the hipster doofus crowd came around.

at one point we had the tallest building in the British Empire; that has changed a lot. the Massey Tunnel was revolutionary for the time with engineers from around the world coming to learn from it. Vancouver was North Americas neon capital. The huge BowMac sign at 29m in height being North Americas largest freestanding sign. The Granville Street bridge, being built by the CoV without any external funding from other governments, etc at a cost of ~18 million in the early 1950s was a source of pride. SkyTrain, the first automated transit system implemented in the world giving the abulity for some of the shortest wait times for trains.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by flipper316

why can't we have something like that here. the only 2 that come close are golden ears and port mann.

Pretty sad when neither of the 2 bridges you mentioned have real shoulders and they're the bridges that "comes closest". TBH I'm not sure of the reason why Vancouver does this. Maybe it's because of engineering. We value engineer everything here, from our bridges to our highways and the result is a metro area with a Mickey Mouse transportation network. So one of the reasons for no shoulder on the new patullo could be money. Another reason could be they fear that if we DID have a shoulder it would be immediately canabalized into another lane. Which probably would happen like what they have planned for the Alex Fraser bridge.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

at one point we had the tallest building in the British Empire; that has changed a lot. the Massey Tunnel was revolutionary for the time with engineers from around the world coming to learn from it. Vancouver was North Americas neon capital. The huge BowMac sign at 29m in height being North Americas largest freestanding sign. The Granville Street bridge, being built by the CoV without any external funding from other governments, etc at a cost of ~18 million in the early 1950s was a source of pride. SkyTrain, the first automated transit system implemented in the world giving the abulity for some of the shortest wait times for trains.

Wow. You got a bunch of them.

I would also add longest stage west of Chicago, and largest ice rink on planet earth to the list.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Wow. You got a bunch of them.

I would also add longest stage west of Chicago, and largest ice rink on planet earth to the list.

that reminds me of one i forgot; Denman Arena, built in 1911, was the largest arena in Canada and the first ice rink in Canada to have mechanically frozen ice. it could seat 10,500 people.


we used to try to be the best, we used to excel at it and set records and firsts. what Vancouver was, and what Vancouver is today, are 2 very different cities and the current isn't even a shell of its former self. the funny thing is, in our pursuit to be "world class" over the past few decades, we have really gone backwards since we truly were a world class city.


we lack vision, and we underbuild everything we do; from residential to commercial buildings, from community pools to transportation infrastructure. it all has a common theme; lacking in vision and drive. sure, we say it is because of a lack of money, but that's a fallacy. it is a lack of drive, because based on Vancouver's history, with how small it used to be, we should be able to achieve great things like we once did.

[ClaytonA]

We must be doing something right with all the most livable city in the world, high most sustainable city in the world, best city to be an expat, etc global rankings...

re the Denman Arena; is it notable I'm the tallest, left-handed, married 20-29 year-old with 2 kids and thinning hair in my neighbourhood?

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Shoulders on both sides! That's just crazy!

But Yes that's how it should be done. for some reason we don't do that here. Also with highways. Highway 17 is hilarious! Some sections have absolutely no shoulder space and then some have wide shoulders, no standardization whatsoever

the new Champlain bridge will have shoulders on both sides as well.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the new Champlain bridge will have shoulders on both sides as well.

Ya, built with our tax dollars. I'd love for the feds to throw a few Billion around here for some bridges.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I'm wondering if that render for the new Patullo, as posted in the HIVE, is the finalized design. Hope as hell surely not.

No, it wouldn't be - that's just a concept.

The bidders would submit their own designs, but you can probably be assured it won't have cables crossing over the vehicles lanes due to ice issues.

[officedweller]

The problem with the Tappan Zee Bridge or any of the H-tower bridges is that the towers would need to be wide enough
for future deck expansion and the cables attach to the outside of the edge of the deck, which could prevent / complicate future widening.
Tappan Zee looks like they built the deck to full maximum width at the outset rather than later widening
(could be a function of cable attachments).

The concept design would have the central point/needle towers for a reason - because they allow widening on the bridge deck in future and avoid having the pedestrian path divert around the outsides of the towers like the Lions Gate Bridge towers.

If there are other cable-stayed designs that allow future deck widening, those could also be considered.



From June 2016:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Here are the relevant diagrams:


http://www.translink.ca/en/Plans-and-Pro...-Bridge/Pattullo-Bridge-Replacement.aspx

[libtard]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The problem with the Tappan Zee Bridge or any of the H-tower bridges is that the towers would need to be wide enough
for future deck expansion and the cables attach to the outside of the edge of the deck, which could prevent / complicate future widening.
Tappan Zee looks like they built the deck to full maximum width at the outset rather than later widening
(could be a function of cable attachments).

The concept design would have the central point/needle towers for a reason - because they allow widening on the bridge deck in future and avoid having the pedestrian path divert around the outsides of the towers like the Lions Gate Bridge towers.

If there are other cable-stayed designs that allow future deck widening, those could also be considered.



From June 2016:

Future deck expansion. The bridge is being replaced and they have no design for more lanes. If they have no plans for expanding capacity at this critical time, I have to question the likelihood for future expansion.

Regardless, I didn't post a picture of the Tappan Zee bridge to advocate a certain type of structural design. Whatever choice they go with, I'm highlighting the fact it will have sub standard safety features such as shoulders or lack there of.

[Bdawe]

The Tappan Zee Bridge & the Bay Bridge Eastern Span, are of course, widely lauded for the economic use of the public's money.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

The Tappan Zee Bridge & the Bay Bridge Eastern Span, are of course, widely lauded for the economic use of the public's money.

It cost $3.9B in 2013 dollars and has a $5 toll, both in USD of course. Perfect for Metro Vancouver.

[officedweller]

My point was that if the "shoulder/future lane" is used as the bike ped path on opening,
you'd still need to expand the deck outside the towers / cables for a new bike / ped path
once that lane is converted to auto use, so the bridge design will have to take that into account.

WRT shoulder, I suppose you could consider the Patullo a local bridge - not a freeway bridge, so shoulders may not be necessary.