Amazon HQ2 thread

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

I haven't run into unfriendly Hispanics here at all. My experience has been that Hispanic families are very supportive of their gay children/siblings and their friends. Hispanic culture is my favorite because of their friendliness and kindness. The more Hispanic Texas is, the happier I am living here.

I expect this will be deleted because its 100% political with nothing about Amazon, but imagine if someone said this(SAME thing as AG said, but changed the group):

White culture is my favorite because of their friendliness and kindness. The more White Texas is, the happier I am living here

[skyscraperpage17]

Survey: College students prefer Amazon's HQ2 in Atlanta

https://www.axios.com/survey-college-stu...90ddb5a-8717-4337-a5ae-1d56fe5908cc.html

Of the 20 cities Amazon shortlisted for its second headquarters, Atlanta appears to be the number one choice for college students, according to a new survey.

How it was done: WayUp, a career platform geared towards college students and recent graduates, said it conducted a study involving 672 college students (freshman and sophomores) from 410 universities across the country.


Show less
By the numbers: 11.9%, for Atlanta; 11.2% tie between Chicago and New York City; 10.4% for Boston and 8.8% for Austin.

The backdrop: The survey results highlight the regional employment preferences of the next generation of workers. Based on its findings, WayUp said students are concerned about affordable housing.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

?? How is that? Latinos have always voted heavily democratic, but are far from monolithic. Even the most conservative latino populations tend to be culturally more similar to the democratic catholic areas of the midwest and northeast than the southern baptists. Cuban-Americans are an exception, given the unique geo-political history.

Latinos are very socially conservative, family-oriented, religious, etc. Same as African-Americans (generally speaking). Latinos would easily vote Republican if Republicans weren't trying to deport their family members and pursuing policies that embolden racist supporters.

I'm not saying they would vote 100% towards the GOP, but if the GOP had more moderate stances -- they would probably see more of a 50/50 split with them which would make the GOP much more competitive (without all the gerrymandering and whatnot that is currently propping up their margins).

[chris08876]

The bigger the main cities in Texas like Dallas-FT Worth/Houston/Austin/San Antonio become, the better the state will be politically. Its one of those cases where the cities are bastions of progressive and morally good ideology. Its the rural areas that drag the state down a notch. From a raw population voter count, the more growth in those metros, the better the odds of the state flipping. I'd attribute it to growing minority population, college students, but also Northeast/Western transplants.

In theory, Amazon would do okay in those areas, just don't place HQ2 in Perryton, TX.

Kinda how Atlanta Georgia is not really deep-red, but venture outside of the metro, and its a whole different world. Even NY State. If it wasn't for NYC (and its proxies)\LI, Buffalo, Albany... the state would probally be red.

[Marv95]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Latinos are very socially conservative, family-oriented, religious, etc. Same as African-Americans (generally speaking). Latinos would easily vote Republican if Republicans weren't trying to deport their family members and pursuing policies that embolden racist supporters.
I'm not saying they would vote 100% towards the GOP, but if the GOP had more moderate stances -- they would probably see more of a 50/50 split with them which would make the GOP much more competitive (without all the gerrymandering and whatnot that is currently propping up their margins).

That's not the biggest reason why Latinos (and blacks) don't vote GOP. You're underestimating how many Hispanic Americans despise illegal ailens coming in here with ease while they had to battle for their citizenship. The issue is instead of treating us like working class citizens they treat us as stats. Also they let culture crap get in the way(like Roy Moore) like the Dems are starting to do right now. Trump got a higher percentage of the Latino and black vote than the last 2 candidates for a reason. He's more moderate than you think(which is probably why his margin of victories in the southern states dropped from Romney/McCain/Dubuya).

Gerrymandering isn't an excuse when these states have still elected Dems into Congress and the White House. If lean blue Maryland gerrymanders then don't complain when states leaning red do the same.

Back to Amazon, if they have to go for a southern state, Dallas makes more sense imo than Atlanta. Especially if mass transit is a criteria. No wage tax. Traffic not as insane. But Bezos for whatever reason has an agenda for any state voting for Trump(or R's in general) and I dunno if he wants his company to deal with that no matter how blue Dallas and Atlanta are.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Marv95

If lean blue Maryland gerrymanders then don't complain when states leaning red do the same.

Seems to me the western district (panhandle?) of Maryland is always going to look like the original Gerry-mander, no matter what. Maryland looks gerrymandered as a state.

On that topic though, the task of drawing electoral districts should be reserved for a nonpartisan commission. It's nuts that the people in power can play with the borders of winner-takes-all units; for a given vote distribution output, the outcome of the next election greatly hinges on the position of those borders.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Kinda how Atlanta Georgia is not really deep-red, but venture outside of the metro, and its a whole different world. Even NY State. If it wasn't for NYC (and its proxies)\LI, Buffalo, Albany... the state would probally be red.

Take away the urban areas (or college towns) and every state would be red. I been to almost every state in the US and everyone I've been to seemed like two states, the more progressive urban areas and the more conservative exurban and rural areas. Every one of them...

[mville1]

Originally Posted by JManc

Take away the urban areas (or college towns) and every state would be red. I been to almost every state in the US and everyone I've been to seemed like two states, the more progressive urban areas and the more conservative exurban and rural areas. Every one of them...

I would argue Vermont is the exception to that rule.....Even the Republican Governor is Pro-Choice and supports the continuation of legalized same-sex marriage. Sorry for derailing the thread. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mville1

I would argue Vermont is the exception to that rule.....Even the Republican Governor is Pro-Choice and supports the continuation of legalized same-sex marriage. Sorry for derailing the thread. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

There too. There's more granola mixed with the rural folk but it's still pretty conservative in the boonies.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Survey: College students prefer Amazon's HQ2 in Atlanta

https://www.axios.com/survey-college-stu...90ddb5a-8717-4337-a5ae-1d56fe5908cc.html

I bet it would be different if it was only the major positions Amazon will hire, which tend to be relatively high-paying.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by mhays

I bet it would be different if it was only the major positions Amazon will hire, which tend to be relatively high-paying.

Even then, housing costs would still be a concern in high COL areas (just like it has become in Seattle).

If they were to go to Loudoun County or Boston, workers would have to spent quite a bit of money to get a decent-sized house, and that's after saving for a down payment.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by JManc

Take away the urban areas (or college towns) and every state would be red. I been to almost every state in the US and everyone I've been to seemed like two states, the more progressive urban areas and the more conservative exurban and rural areas. Every one of them...

Totally false, Wisconsin, for example, regularly goes blue in "rural" areas, it's actually the suburbs of Milwaukee that skew things Red the most. For example, 2008 presidential results:


Wikipedia

It's amazing how jaded Democrats are about their own working class base. There are plenty of States that used to be solid blue because of hard working rural voters like West Virginia coal miners or Wisconsin paper workers. That's why Hillary lost the election, they failed to cater to the deep blue union base in places like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania and it cost them the election. Meanwhile Trump hit those areas hard with his "end globalization" message and won over not a majority, but just enough blue collar voters in these areas to win nationally...

Honestly Wisconsin without Milwaukee and it's hyper red suburbs would probably be more liberal, something like a Midwestern Vermont. Most of the state is still small industrial union towns like Neenah, Wausau, Green Bay, Appleton, Oshkosh, etc. These people, like my grandparents, are staunch Democrats. Ironically a few of my relatives ditched for Trump in the past election because they still have a sour taste in their mouth from Clinton the first and want stuff like NAFTA to die (they face a ton of paper and lumber competition from Canada).

[mhays]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Even then, housing costs would still be a concern in high COL areas (just like it has become in Seattle).

If they were to go to Loudoun County or Boston, workers would have to spent quite a bit of money to get a decent-sized house, and that's after saving for a down payment.

For many Amazon HQ workers straight out of college, the equation is more about a $2,000 one-bedroom in the urban core, and probably no car, which in combination can be cheaper than the suburban + car commute model.

If the goal is mid-career workers with families, I suspect a lower-priced metro would score well. But we don't know whether that's a core goal. If it is, places like Atlanta and Chicago might score well.

[chris08876]

^^^^

Might be attracting that mid-career type of employee. That's the thing I'm wondering about the 50k jobs (eventual goal). What would be the proportion that out of all the jobs present, would require mid-career type candidates.

Unless they plan on hiring recent or fresh out of university applicants.

I think the skill level, IF they are looking for mid-career (as a large % of the total job pool), might cause some cities in the top 20 to lose out.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by chris08876

The bigger the main cities in Texas like Dallas-FT Worth/Houston/Austin/San Antonio become, the better the state will be politically. Its one of those cases where the cities are bastions of progressive and morally good ideology. Its the rural areas that drag the state down a notch. From a raw population voter count, the more growth in those metros, the better the odds of the state flipping. I'd attribute it to growing minority population, college students, but also Northeast/Western transplants.

In theory, Amazon would do okay in those areas, just don't place HQ2 in Perryton, TX.

Kinda how Atlanta Georgia is not really deep-red, but venture outside of the metro, and its a whole different world. Even NY State. If it wasn't for NYC (and its proxies)\LI, Buffalo, Albany... the state would probally be red.

I get your reasoning, but it is still a bit naive. It is not the rural vote that is keeping Texas in the Republican column. The bulk of Republican support in Texas comes from the heavily populated middle class white suburban counties that surround the large cities of Texas. I am talking about places like Collin and Denton Counties north of DFW, Brazoria and Montgomery Counties outside of Houston, and Williamson and Hays counties outside of Austin. These are just the larger suburban counties (populations ranging from 200,000 to over 800,000). There are a dozen smaller ones with populations between 100,000 and 200,000. The only significant suburban Texas county to flip blue in recent times is Fort Bend County which has a large Asian population. Heck, even Tarrant County, which is home to Fort Worth and has a population of over 2,000,000 is still voting Republican overall in spite of a Dem win in Fort Worth proper Dems seem to be gaining a bigger percentage of the vote in some of these suburban counties, but they are not likely to flip blue anytime soon unless there is a huge suburban female defection from the Republican Party. These voters latch on to stupid ideas (like the scare tactic of "men in girl's bathrooms") to justify their voting. Most will deny any racist or homophobic motivations, but they are convinced Republican voters. Far right candidates tend to gain nominations in Republican primaries, and these idiots get elected to office and drag their constituents into scary rabbit holes. Big business interests in Texas traditionally have been able to prevent the most outlandish proposals from coming to a vote in the state legislature, but lately that has not worked so well. Could a major player like Amazon help to restore that kind of sanity to state government? I really don't know the answer to that question, but I suspect they could have a real impact in the long term.

[YSL]

Originally Posted by JManc

Take away the urban areas (or college towns) and every state would be red. I been to almost every state in the US and everyone I've been to seemed like two states, the more progressive urban areas and the more conservative exurban and rural areas. Every one of them...

Not true. Massachusetts and Hawaii would not be red, for example. Every county in both states voted for Hillary. I don't think Maryland, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Hampshire would be red either.

[YSL]

Originally Posted by Marv95

That's not the biggest reason why Latinos (and blacks) don't vote GOP. You're underestimating how many Hispanic Americans despise illegal ailens coming in here with ease while they had to battle for their citizenship. The issue is instead of treating us like working class citizens they treat us as stats. Also they let culture crap get in the way(like Roy Moore) like the Dems are starting to do right now. Trump got a higher percentage of the Latino and black vote than the last 2 candidates for a reason. He's more moderate than you think(which is probably why his margin of victories in the southern states dropped from Romney/McCain/Dubuya).

Gerrymandering isn't an excuse when these states have still elected Dems into Congress and the White House. If lean blue Maryland gerrymanders then don't complain when states leaning red do the same.

Back to Amazon, if they have to go for a southern state, Dallas makes more sense imo than Atlanta. Especially if mass transit is a criteria. No wage tax. Traffic not as insane. But Bezos for whatever reason has an agenda for any state voting for Trump(or R's in general) and I dunno if he wants his company to deal with that no matter how blue Dallas and Atlanta are.

You skipped over a major part of his post - "and pursuing policies that embolden racist supporters. "

The (accurate) perception of the GOP being a hotbed of racism is what stops them from voting Republican. If they purged the party of racism and started pushing civil rights issues, African Americans and Latinos (and Asians) would probably start voting for them in larger numbers. If that ever happens though, there will be an exodus of deplorables from the GOP. Let's be honest here -a large fraction of the GOP does not want to coexist with minorities. Part of the allure of Conservatism is "us vs them".

We've been down this road before with the 'great switch'.

BTW, the national exit polls (like 2016 polling in general) were wrong according to studies that looked at the actual results precinct by precinct. Trump underperformed GOP predecessors with Latino votes. One study shows it significantly worse - 83% for Hillary, 11% for Trump...a record low for Republicans.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-pedraza-latino-vote-20170111-story.html

[lio45]

Originally Posted by YSL

Not true. Massachusetts and Hawaii would not be red, for example. Every county in both states voted for Hillary. I don't think Maryland, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Hampshire would be red either.

NH was almost a tie last election -- half for Hillary, half for Trump. The rural parts alone would definitely be red.

You guys brought up a few valid counter-examples, but JManc was still generally mostly correct.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by YSL

You skipped over a major part of his post - "and pursuing policies that embolden racist supporters. "

The (accurate) perception of the GOP being a hotbed of racism is what stops them from voting Republican. If they purged the party of racism and started pushing civil rights issues, African Americans and Latinos (and Asians) would probably start voting for them in larger numbers. If that ever happens though, there will be an exodus of deplorables from the GOP. Let's be honest here -a large fraction of the GOP does not want to coexist with minorities. Part of the allure of Conservatism is "us vs them".

We've been down this road before with the 'great switch'.

BTW, the national exit polls (like 2016 polling in general) were wrong according to studies that looked at the actual results precinct by precinct. Trump underperformed GOP predecessors with Latino votes. One study shows it significantly worse - 83% for Hillary, 11% for Trump...a record low for Republicans.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-pedraza-latino-vote-20170111-story.html

What policies regarding civil rights would bring hispanics to the GOP? Like specific policies.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

What policies regarding civil rights would bring hispanics to the GOP? Like specific policies.

A few thoughts on this:

1. Support of DACA -- which let's not say that the GOP has been because they refused to pass it under Obama.
2. A path to citizenship for illegal workers
3. An immigration process that doesn't take as long and is far more predictable
4. Open and fair trade with Cuba
5. Accepting Puerto Rico's request for statehood
6. Change to existing drug policies and how they are enforced by law
7. Criminal Justice Reform -- an overhaul of a system that directly disproportionately targets minorities today
8. Education overhaul -- minority communities have access to less quality education

I'm sure there are more....but throwing out a few suggestions.