Amazon HQ2 thread

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by JManc

Trump won Texas by 52%. Hardly a blowout. Hillary is loathed here yet still grabbed 43%.

In 2012, Romney, a meh candidate, beat Obama, 57% to 41%.

52% to 43% is a blow out if you talk to anyone interested or working in politics. The only reason it was closer than 2012 is because the GOP candidate (now President) was incredibly flawed. Anyone other than Trump would have likely won Texas by similar margins as Romney.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Trump won Texas by 52%. Hardly a blowout. Hillary is loathed here yet still grabbed 43%.

In 2012, Romney, a meh candidate, beat Obama, 57% to 41%.

She's evidently only loathed by 57% which seems about right.

[Sun Belt]

I found Neel Kashkari's--president of the Federal Reserve of Minneapolis--comments on HQ2 a little interesting.

He is glad his city is not in the running because it's a losing investment for taxpayers and it is too high of a price for the economic benefits that HQ2 would bring.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I found Neel Kashkari's--president of the Federal Reserve of Minneapolis--comments on HQ2 a little interesting.

He is glad his city is not in the running because it's a losing investment for taxpayers and it is too high of a price for the economic benefits that HQ2 would bring.

Starting to see quite a few articles taking this perspective. There have been a few opinion pieces about it Chicago business mags. It'll definitely be an interesting case study once it's all said and done.

[Via Chicago]

say what you will but the fact that we're even discussing the possibility of flipping Texas says how far its come

this is a good read:

https://harpers.org/archive/2017/03/texas-is-the-future/

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Starting to see quite a few articles taking this perspective. There have been a few opinion pieces about it Chicago business mags. It'll definitely be an interesting case study once it's all said and done.

Honestly, I agree with this sentiment. This whole give away the house, the car, the farm, the whole damn city, half a freaking planet to a massive corporation for jobs situation has got to stop. It's a complete disaster in the long run for everyone involved, save of course for the company itself!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I found Neel Kashkari's--president of the Federal Reserve of Minneapolis--comments on HQ2 a little interesting.

He is glad his city is not in the running because it's a losing investment for taxpayers and it is too high of a price for the economic benefits that HQ2 would bring.

sour grapes.

[ocman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/opinion/sunday/republican-taxes-texas-blue.html

NYT just wrote an article yesterday about Texas turning blue. But mostly based on a prediction that Trump's tax reforms will cause Californians to be priced out of their own state.

As for Bezos, I think people give him too much credit as this beacon of progressiveness. He talks and that's about it. The fact that he's turning this whole thing into Willy Wonka and the Amazon Factory where states offer their souls for the golden ticket really says it all.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by ocman

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/opinion/sunday/republican-taxes-texas-blue.html

NYT just wrote an article yesterday about Texas turning blue. But mostly based on a prediction that Trump's tax reforms will cause Californians to be priced out of their own state.

As for Bezos, I think people give him too much credit as this beacon of progressiveness. He talks and that's about it. The fact that he's turning this whole thing into Willy Wonka and the Amazon Factory where states offer their souls for the golden ticket really says it all.

Liberal revenge could come back swift and strong in 2020. Dems could pass laws raising taxes and the wealthy, cutting tax cuts to big oil, and passing laws that limits state tax allocation (meaning the wealthy blue states stop subsidizing the red states) and then Texas and the red state could be hurt. Heck, liberals could try to deconstruct ICE and Border Agent agencies just like Trump is doing to other departments and then flood those border states with so many Latinos that it speeds up those states turning blue or purple.

There are so many scenarios at play right now. So many things will change over the next decade that it's hard to predict what will actually happen.

[chris08876]

^^^^^^^^^

Pretty much. Kinda why I see all the rubbish thats going on right now on a temporary basis. Sound policies will come, we just have to wait.

This will eventually end someday.

[chris08876]

Amazon Tells Miami: Sign HQ2 Docs

Amazon has requested Miami city officials execute new documents in order to proceed with the next stage of HQ2 negotiations.

The exact nature of the documents has not been revealed, but the request came after Amazon announced Miami to be one of the 20 finalist cities for the new headquarters.

Amazon executives are also said to be visiting Miami.

Miami commissioners are being asked to retroactively authorize execution of the documents at a meeting scheduled for February 8. According to the resolution, Miami’s City Manager has already signed the new paperwork, and other city officials also need both retroactive and future authorization to execute additional documents as they are requested by Amazon.

Also revealed in the new legislation is that both the Omni Redevelopment District Community Redevelopment Agency and the Southeast Overtown/Park West Community Redevelopment Agency were a part of the original proposal sent to Amazon.

Three properties within the city of Miami, and five outside Miami city limits but still within the region, were submitted as potential sites to Amazon – but that list has now been narrowed. The properties in Miami known to have been submitted are the Innovation District/Worldcenter site, and property controlled by Moishe Mana.

=======================
NXT

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Liberal revenge could come back swift and strong in 2020. Dems could pass laws raising taxes and the wealthy, cutting tax cuts to big oil, and passing laws that limits state tax allocation (meaning the wealthy blue states stop subsidizing the red states) and then Texas and the red state could be hurt. Heck, liberals could try to deconstruct ICE and Border Agent agencies just like Trump is doing to other departments and then flood those border states with so many Latinos that it speeds up those states turning blue or purple.

There are so many scenarios at play right now. So many things will change over the next decade that it's hard to predict what will actually happen.

Hmmm so you seem to admit that admitting a lot of hispanics will do nothing other than helping dems win. NO WONDER it is priority #1 to legalize illegal immigrants. I wonder if the immigrants were more likely to vote for Republicans, would they be fighting so hard?

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Hmmm so you seem to admit that admitting a lot of hispanics will do nothing other than helping dems win. NO WONDER it is priority #1 to legalize illegal immigrants. I wonder if the immigrants were more likely to vote for Republicans, would they be fighting so hard?

Well, actually -- Latinos are a natural fit for the Republican base as Latinos have a similar belief structure to southern social conservatives. But Republicans have chosen long term to favor policies that have hurt minorities or been blatantly racist that it's caused Latinos (and Blacks) to support Dems.

So from that regard, yes -- Dems are supporting their base. And yes, part of that means supporting immigration. No different than Republicans pandering to their base with tax cuts to the wealthy, religious freedom acts, and anti-LGBT laws.

[Omaharocks]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Well, actually -- Latinos are a natural fit for the Republican base as Latinos have a similar belief structure to southern social conservatives.

?? How is that? Latinos have always voted heavily democratic, but are far from monolithic. Even the most conservative latino populations tend to be culturally more similar to the democratic catholic areas of the midwest and northeast than the southern baptists. Cuban-Americans are an exception, given the unique geo-political history.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by austlar1

I guess my reaction to the NoGayNoWay blacklist of cities located in states with no statewide protections for gay civil rights is defensive. I can only speak with any knowledge about Texas cities. All major Texas cities (and some large suburban cities as well) in Texas have passed civil rights protections for the LGBT community at the local level. Many of these cities have elected openly gay or lesbian people to various positions including many city council members, at least one lesbian mayor (Houston), one state senator (Austin) and one county sheriff (Dallas) in the past. Both Austin and Dallas have vibrant and politically active LGBT communities It seems to me that blacklisting cities like Austin and Dallas penalizes these cities unduly. Yes, we are vulnerable here to threatened state wide legislation that can overturn local civil rights ordinances. There was a real threat of that happening in the last Texas legislative session. Having a super major employer like Amazon locate HQ2 in either Dallas or Austin would seem to validate the progressive aspects of those cities and provide the local LGBT community with a strong sense of being supported. Most major corporations headquartered in Texas strongly support LGBT rights. Adding Amazon to the top of that heap would be something that right wing zealots might have a hard time ignoring. I don't really think either Dallas or Austin will get HQ2, but I am hoping that the decision will be based on something other than the threat posed by right wing zealots to LGBT civil liberties. These right wing types won't be moved by Amazon deciding to go elsewhere. It will just piss them off. On the other hand, they just might be susceptible to pressure from the business community and more enlightened political interests to back off when it is likely to upset a major player like Amazon.

Excellent analysis. Amazon just needs to explain this in a similar way to its employees, many of whom don't want to have anything to do with Texas (at least based on FB and Twitter posts). That is, if Amazon is serious about either Austin or Dallas.

Many years ago, Apple proposed to build a facility in Williamson County, which is adjacent to Austin. At the time, Williamson County was about as right wing as any place in the country, and residents and county political leaders had a fit about Apple having a non-discrimination policy protecting its gay employees. I don't remember if Apple ended up building there or not, but they weren't particularly inclined to be scared off by the bigots. They were mostly interested in tax breaks, and refused to back off on their anti-discrimination policy. I haven't been able to find any information indicating that they actually built the facility. Kevin, do you know?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

?? How is that?

They tend to be very religious and therefore lean more anti-abortion and less gay friendly than average, at least here. They would be a natural fit for any "family values" political party, if we had such a thing.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Austin's city manager is gay, too. One of my forumer friends also bumped into Elizabeth Warren in Austin today. They were walking downtown and snapped a photo with her. She's in town doing some speech. Anyway, I, too, would hope Texas isn't overlooked because of its politics. It's not like the cities are conservative wastelands like people make the rest of the state out to be.

You mean Austin's new city manager? How did you find out about that? I hadn't heard or read that.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

Excellent analysis. Amazon just needs to explain this in a similar way to its employees, many of whom don't want to have anything to do with Texas (at least based on FB and Twitter posts).

In which case they can just work at HQ1 in Seattle anyway.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it would make sense to have the HQ2 city be a bit of an anti-Seattle, to cover all bases. I know it's been a problem for the Detroit automakers to recruit top talent (actually Cadillac moved to New York and Lincoln was in Orange County CA for a while), I can only imagine it's the same thing for most large companies. Most cities have drawbacks, and if you can split your operations between two cities that complement each other well, you're greatly minimizing the recruiting problem of having talent refusing to permanently move to your city.

Dallas and Atlanta would be great choices to complement Seattle as well as possible. Sunny, affordable real estate, low cost of living, and sprawly so you can easily have a SFH with a backyard.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I think that's a very important counter-point. Among the states singled-out by NoGayNoWay, Pennsylvania, for example, actually has 44 municipalities with localized LGBT protections in employment, housing, etc. These are local versions of ENDA. Most notably, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, two Amazon finalists, have scores of 100 on the Human Rights Commission's Municipality Equality Index--which is the highest possible score. And a much more moderate state like PA isn't exactly passing bathroom bills--it just has a very stodgy and more-conservative-than-the-general-population-due-to-gerrymandering state legislature. In fact, that's likely true of many of these states.

Here's the thing. I completely understand and support the spirit of pushing states to move into the 21st Century of common sense civil rights protections with widespread support among the general populace. But I think there's a strong counter-argument to be made for Amazon to do the exact opposite of what NGNW is proposing. That is, locate in a state that is behind on civil rights protections as a method of being a change catalyst at the state level.

Think about it. Amazon could very easily add in a condition of locating HQ2 in Texas or Georgia the passage of a statewide ENDA law within, say, 1 year of its decision to locate its operations in said state. Not to mention, Amazon hiring tens of thousands of ostensibly "progressive" techies would no doubt have a not insignificant political effect on even the largest of states. However, the approach that NGNW is taking--that is, to essentially "guilt" Amazon into locating in state with ENDA protections already in place--is a complete waste of leverage and opportunity to "spread" the adoption of stronger civil rights laws.

It's the same mindset that causes partisan "sorting" and acute divisiveness in the US. That's a whole other topic, but SOMEONE has to begin to break up this absurd patchwork of varying policies among states once and for all. The case of Amazon could very easily prove the method for doing so.

Unfortunately, the Texas legislature and Governor/Lt. Gov would never agree to a state version of ENDA. That won't happen until and unless a totally different kind of administration and legislature is voted in.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by lio45

They tend to be very religious and therefore lean more anti-abortion and less gay friendly than average, at least here. They would be a natural fit for any "family values" political party, if we had such a thing.

I haven't run into unfriendly Hispanics here at all. My experience has been that Hispanic families are very supportive of their gay children/siblings and their friends. Hispanic culture is my favorite because of their friendliness and kindness. The more Hispanic Texas is, the happier I am living here.