CHICAGO | General Developments

[Baronvonellis]

Wow, I had no idea the west loop was pushing that far west already! I rarely visit the west loop. Now we need to start gentrifying East Garfield west to the Conservatory and Park as a new Logan Square type lower density neighborhood. Garfield Park (the Park itself) is beautiful! It really needs some investment in the neighborhood now! I'd love a grey stone house next to the park if it gentrifies there next!

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

Now we need to start gentrifying East Garfield west to the Conservatory and Park as a new Logan Square type lower density neighborhood.

Whaddya wanna downzone it?
It's already zoned for Edgewater densities.

[Baronvonellis]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

Whaddya wanna downzone it?
It's already zoned for Edgewater densities.

I didn't know East Garfield was zoned for high densities already. That's great, I thought it would be single family zoning that far west and only the west loop had high densities. Sure, keep that zoning in place then!

There needs to be a green line station somewhere around western or Damen in that case.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

Whaddya wanna downzone it?
It's already zoned for Edgewater densities.

The building stock in EGP is some of the best and most unique in the city. Tons of attached rowhouses, ornate graystones, etc. Some blocks feel like Brooklyn. For sheer building character I love the area around the California Green Line. There’s an intact 1800s storefront on two corners of that California/Lake intersection. Eventually I could see it being like Armitage/Sheffield - one of the corners is already the warehouse for Akira, now they just need to open an outlet there!

Downzoning would seem to be a simple (if blunt) tool for preservation... but right now, that’s a solution in search of a problem. Downzoning can’t prevent buildings from being torn down for abandonment.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

I didn't know East Garfield was zoned for high densities already. That's great, I thought it would be single family zoning that far west and only the west loop had high densities. Sure, keep that zoning in place then!

There needs to be a green line station somewhere around western or Damen in that case.

Which is why the City announced last year that they will be building a Green Line station at Damen starting this year.

Originally Posted by ardecila

The building stock in EGP is some of the best and most unique in the city. Tons of attached rowhouses, ornate graystones, etc. Some blocks feel like Brooklyn.

I agree - if you're young and willing to wait 10-15 years (give or take 10-15 years), it's a great way to get into really cool buildings at a price point most young professionals can afford. Yeah, it comes with a variety of risks, both financial and otherwise, but if things keep moving the way they have been you could end up with nice building(s) in a neighborhood that may eventually feel like a Ukrainian Village or Wicker Park, with prices to match, having paid less than a cookie-cutter house in Naperville.

Originally Posted by ardecila

Downzoning would seem to be a simple (if blunt) tool for preservation... but right now, that’s a solution in search of a problem. Downzoning can’t prevent buildings from being torn down for abandonment.

That's the saddest part. We need more people willing to do what I described in the part above. I considered doing that 14 years ago when I bought my River North condo, but 14 years ago there was more risk and longer timelines and I just didn't want to live in a sketchy, inconvenient neighborhood for that long just to maybe end up living in a nice area in an awesome house. Now I am just kind of hoping River North prices rise enough for me to transition into a house or 3-flat in an area that has started the process of getting to convenient city living but doesn't yet have the prices to match. Or I could stay in River North forever - I picked my place because I genuinely like the apartment even apart of what neighborhood it's in, and River North is only getting more and more convenient to live in.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago

Maybe from both directions and "East Oak Park" will merge with "West West Loop"

"Oak Park Eastlands" meet "West Loop Ultra" ... and we'll just build a giant overpass putting Austin in a giant, concrete dome where all the characters from "Escape From New York" will put down roots ...

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by emathias

I agree - if you're young and willing to wait 10-15 years (give or take 10-15 years), it's a great way to get into really cool buildings at a price point most young professionals can afford. Yeah, it comes with a variety of risks, both financial and otherwise, but if things keep moving the way they have been you could end up with nice building(s) in a neighborhood that may eventually feel like a Ukrainian Village or Wicker Park, with prices to match, having paid less than a cookie-cutter house in Naperville.

How do you think Wicker Park got where it is today.
It was a slum slated for urban renewal when the WP you see today got started.
Even after the NIMBYs chased the DUR out with its tail between its legs, it was still beset with an epidemic of arson.
In the mid 70' the "Reactions to crime project" looked at 4 Chicago neighborhoods. Lincoln Park, Wicker Park, Woodlawn and BoTY. The crime rates in WP were the worst. LP a close second. BoTY was the best of them.

[ardecila]

You can even get deals in the section between Damen and Western, which is almost entirely intact (and infill on Madison has mostly filled that in). That’s not even EGP, it’s still Near West Side.

My hesitation is just to invest in a neighborhood that’s been African-American for decades. A Black neighborhood has never gentrified in Chicago. That’s partly racism, partly crime, but I think it has more to do with the utter absence of neighborhood commercial strips. These neighborhoods are objectively worse places to live than, say, most Latino neighborhoods that have intact commercial streets and thriving local business communities, with very few vacant lots overall.

[Jibba]

Huron/Dearborn


Chicago Ave infill


(older infill with simple brickwork brise soleil)


Damen/Augusta


Logan Square (California Ave carwash redevelopment)

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by ardecila

You can even get deals in the section between Damen and Western, which is almost entirely intact (and infill on Madison has mostly filled that in). That’s not even EGP, it’s still Near West Side.

My hesitation is just to invest in a neighborhood that’s been African-American for decades. A Black neighborhood has never gentrified in Chicago. That’s partly racism, partly crime, but I think it has more to do with the utter absence of neighborhood commercial strips. These neighborhoods are objectively worse places to live than, say, most Latino neighborhoods that have intact commercial streets and thriving local business communities, with very few vacant lots overall.

What ”historically black” neighborhood in Chicago will ever gentrify if it hasn’t yet happened in Bronzeville?

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

What ”historically black” neighborhood in Chicago will ever gentrify if it hasn’t yet happened in Bronzeville?

You do realize that the west half of River north and most of the West loop were "historically black" neighborhoods.


Truth is, until Lincoln Park and Old Town started, no neighborhood in Chicago had ever gentrified.

[Baronvonellis]

I'm partly colorblind and can't see all those colors on the map. I'm doing a research project on my Norwegian ancestry. For someone that can see colors well, what areas were Norwegian? Thanks!

Glad there will be a Damen Green line soon, that's great!

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by ardecila

A Black neighborhood has never gentrified in Chicago. That’s partly racism, partly crime, but I think it has more to do with the utter absence of neighborhood commercial strips. These neighborhoods are objectively worse places to live than, say, most Latino neighborhoods that have intact commercial streets and thriving local business communities, with very few vacant lots overall.

I find it interesting that gentrification has made it's way all the way NW to Hermosa (which is very far from the Loop) and the area around United Center/West Side/GP is what it is.

I think that gentrification has an easier time following run down housing stock that can be rebuilt in phases, but a much harder time following vacant lots.

[the urban politician]

^ Exactly.

Run down housing stock simply needs renovation. But people are still attracted to the built environment.

But seas of vacant land are appealing to nobody except big box stores and Aldermen who want to keep an area black so that they can keep getting reelected (think Doroth Tillman)

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

You do realize that the west half of River north and most of the West loop were "historically black" neighborhoods.

Truth is, until Lincoln Park and Old Town started, no neighborhood in Chicago had ever gentrified.

That’s true. I should have chosen my words more carefully. I don’t really think it’s a comparable situation, though. River North, West Loop and South Loop were extremely sparsely populated mid-century, most land was used for commercial and industrial. The residents that were in those areas were indeed mostly Black, but they were clustered densely in a handful of SROs and slum apartments.

When the forces of gentrification came knocking, most of those SROs were torn down and the black residents quietly ushered away, while the (plentiful) commercial buildings proved very adaptable to new uses.

Bronzeville, EGP, and most other Black neighborhoods in the city have a very different physical reality, with few loft buildings and decimated commercial streets, residential streets occupy the bulk of land but often those are decimate too.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

I think that gentrification has an easier time following run down housing stock that can be rebuilt in phases, but a much harder time following vacant lots.

This a very valid point.
While Lincoln Park's gentrification was kind of kick started with urban renewal projects, but they were comparatively small and never really cut the heart out After Nixon cut off funding, its gentrification was more organic.
The adjacent regions in Lake View Wicker Park and Bucktown were driven by spill over. Something is needed to encourage these people to cross the boundary of the comfort zone and salvageable housing stock is one of them.
Infill construction doesn't start for years, until housing value is high enough to make the vacant lots look enticing.

[marothisu]

In other news, the Richard J Daley College new building + addition designed by JGMA got a new construction building permit the other day. There was a ground breaking ceremony a few months ago. This is for engineering and manufacturing.

Source: JGMA/Curbed


More pictures/info here:
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/9/26...cturing-center

[the urban politician]

^ These kinds of investments will pay off for Chicago. Good to see

[harryc]

Jan 30



Jan 22

[harryc]

Jan 30