Wharncliffe Rd. Transformation - CN Tracks

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Oliverfox

I do agree the underpass needs to be widen, but I don't believe widening the bridge will actually improve the traffic flow. As someone who travels up that stretch of Wharncliffe St regularly I have noticed that most of traffic jams on that street are caused by people blocking ongoing traffic trying to turn onto the many side streets that branch off it because most of the intersections don't have dedicated turning lanes.

Kinda like Highbury Ave between Hamilton and Dundas, large majority of the traffic problems are people turning left onto the side streets. I have always felt London should not allow left turns in certain areas, poor street designs over the years has made the problem worse.

[Pimpmasterdac]

There's plenty of roads in London that suffer from left turns on a 4 lane road, that are constrained from widening. Not to get off topic but for Wharncliffe I don't understand why the proposed BRT is suppose to run in mixed traffic, where Wellington & Richmond must have dedicated lanes that require a fair amount of expropriation. IMO if they did the same on Wharncliffe they could have left turn lanes at specific streets to control random left turns from Riverside to Oxford.

With Wharncliffe/CN widening the SB left turn lane to Stanley will be eliminated, as there will be a new SB to Horton turn instead. I do see people still turning down Beecher or The Ridgeway being an issue, as well as the Children's Museum redevelopment as that part and the Thames bridge are still set to be 4 lanes.

[haljackey]

A study is underway to fix up Warncliffe between Becher and Commissioners

https://www.london.ca/residents/Environment/EAs/Pages/Wharncliffe-Road-South.aspx

Fixing this CN underpass is the top, and most costly and complicated priority for the project.

One recommendation includes small expansion of the road to fit in 5 tight lanes. Another might include bike lanes.

[K85]

yeesh those pdf's are a pain in the 🞵🞵🞵 to get working...

so what it looks like, is they're wanting to expand the entirety of it!?! at least that's the legend of it. This is gonna be 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 expensive

[Pimpmasterdac]

Wharncliffe/CN EA report will be going to Civic works for finalization.

Key points:

- Total project cost estimated be $38.9 million and take 18 months to construct, with significant grade changes to Horton and Stanley roads being dropped.

- The underpass will a single span, that will accomodate 5 lanes of traffic 2 in each direction plus a SB left onto Horton. It will also have sideways and room for bike lines on both sides.

- The underpass will also be built with potential for additional trackage for high speed rail.

- Horton will be 3 lanes in each direction at Wharncliffe as well there will now be a NB left onto Horton.

- EA is recommending that home on 100 Stanley be relocated to vacant lot across the street on Wharncliffe & Evergreen. They really went into detail with this, effectively this is the only viable option other than demolition. If they were to do what granny NIMBY wants and widen exclusively on the west it would require 13 homes completely expropriated, included another heritage property. As well the city calculates the cost of moving her home to $500k. I'm sure we'll be hearing her cry to the media some more in coming days...

Links provided

http://sire.london.ca/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=325476
http://sire.london.ca/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=325477

[Dupcheck]

39Million$ wow, you can buy a whole town for that much money in some countries... Why does this cost so much? Who is paying for it?

[MrSlippery519]

Nice to see the city growing a pair for a change, this seems well laid out and they are basically saying we demolish or move the house your choice granny.

lets get moving!

[haljackey]

Article from the Freeps
http://www.lfpress.com/2018/01/31/nan-fi...to-repair-a-rail-bridge-and-widen-a-road

Move the house or lose it.

[kaiserLDN]

You guys should see the facebook comments under the news articles on FB. ''Leave it the way it is'' some people say. The comments are funny but it's not because these are the people that stop projects and slow them down. After this project no one will remember this argument and be thankful how much easier it will be to navigate the area.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by kaiserLDN

You guys should see the facebook comments under the news articles on FB. ''Leave it the way it is'' some people say. The comments are funny but it's not because these are the people that stop projects and slow them down. After this project no one will remember this argument and be thankful how much easier it will be to navigate the area.

It is all part of this new "me too" approach with our society, people love to find a reason to be offended and then group together with a bunch of morons who just assume it is the right way to act without actually looking into the issues themselves and forming an opinion. Not to get to far off topic, but it was similar with the Tim Horton's protests...did people actually expect minimum wage to go up 20% and there would be no affect to services, cost of goods, etc? If you sit back and actually think about it the logic makes perfect sense.

No different than this, certainly it would be nice to keep a heritage designated property but you cannot stop progress as a result, this is one house which the city is now offering to move at no cost to the homeowner. The net result of this 1 property coming down is unbelievable for traffic flow.

Anyways hope to see this resolved and moving forward sooner than later

[Djeffery]

Regarding the FB comments, people act like this woman has lived in this house all her life and it's her family home going back 3 generations or something. She moved there in the 80's, it's not like Wharncliffe was a horse trail. Anybody could see that road and bridge would need to be expanded, and likely sooner than later. I think she has gotten more time out of that house than should have been expected.

The city is being more than generous with her. $500k or so to move that house across the road? I don't know why anyone would want to live anywhere near that corner after it's all done. But anyway, give it 2 years and the new place would look just as overgrown as her current "beautiful gardens".

[jammer139]

I'm surprised this project is only $38.9M estimated. Given the scope of the engineering and logistical challenges and the constraints with the elevated Railway bed and the need to build temporary diverted rails, I would not be surprised this goes well into the $40+ Million.

The logistics of moving the house to the empty lot on the west side of the street doesn't make sense as wouldn't they need that empty lot as a construction staging area for equipment etc. Where does the house go in the meantime? Moved out to some remote part of town until the project is completed temporarily and then returned to the empty lot. That is insanely wasteful and stupid. Just tear it down and get on with it. Common sense is needed here.

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Wharncliffe/CN EA report will be going to Civic works for finalization.

Key points:

- Total project cost estimated be $38.9 million and take 18 months to construct, with significant grade changes to Horton and Stanley roads being dropped.

- The underpass will a single span, that will accomodate 5 lanes of traffic 2 in each direction plus a SB left onto Horton. It will also have sideways and room for bike lines on both sides.

- The underpass will also be built with potential for additional trackage for high speed rail.

- Horton will be 3 lanes in each direction at Wharncliffe as well there will now be a NB left onto Horton.

- EA is recommending that home on 100 Stanley be relocated to vacant lot across the street on Wharncliffe & Evergreen. They really went into detail with this, effectively this is the only viable option other than demolition. If they were to do what granny NIMBY wants and widen exclusively on the west it would require 13 homes completely expropriated, included another heritage property. As well the city calculates the cost of moving her home to $500k. I'm sure we'll be hearing her cry to the media some more in coming days...

Links provided

http://sire.london.ca/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=325476
http://sire.london.ca/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=325477

[Djeffery]

They aren't going to do the rail diversion at the CNR like is being done at the CPR. They are going the built the new bridge on the northside of the existing bridge and slide it in to place. The links in pimpmasterdoc's post have the reports and diagrams and the reasons why 100 Stanley has to go.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by K85

yeesh those pdf's are a pain in the 🞵🞵🞵 to get working...

so what it looks like, is they're wanting to expand the entirety of it!?! at least that's the legend of it. This is gonna be 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 expensive

It may be '🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 expensive', as you put it, but it is absolutely necessary. The traffic bottlenecks that have plagued Wharncliffe since time immemorial have been going on for far too long.

This kind of expansion will also be crucial if the city ever hopes to expand upon the existing BRT system or at least improve the flow of non-BRT busses that go up and down Wharncliffe.

I am disappointed to see that, as Pimpmasterdac says, 'Granny NIMBY' is still doggedly hanging on. One can't help but think she is being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn in that pointlessly prideful way some elderly people are. It's no longer about whether the expropriation is fair or reasonable, it's about some old woman saying, "I'm an old geezer, on the way out, and I would derive great satisfaction from bringing an entire city to its knees."
It's just another way of saying '🞵🞵🞵🞵 you' to people and giving them the finger.

[kaiserLDN]

Sounds like 2021-2022 for Horton/ Wharncliffe Bridge.

http://www.lfpress.com/2018/02/06/wharnc...ely-for-brt-says-london-coun-phil-squire

[Spoofy]

.

[Djeffery]

The proposal is to move it to the corner of Evergreen and Wharncliffe, which is a bit north of the Stanley intersection and is clear of where the new bridge would be built.

[kaiserLDN]

http://www.lfpress.com/2018/02/12/london-urged-to-spend-more-to-keep-road-open-during-work

I am not sure which way this should go on Spending more money to keep it open or spend less to get over with. This is a project though that has to happen. This is a prime example of why we shouldn't wait 20 years for major projects and think of the future when building things. This should have been done a long time ago when there was less traffic.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by kaiserLDN

http://www.lfpress.com/2018/02/12/london-urged-to-spend-more-to-keep-road-open-during-work

I am not sure which way this should go on Spending more money to keep it open or spend less to get over with. This is a project though that has to happen. This is a prime example of why we shouldn't wait 20 years for major projects and think of the future when building things. This should have been done a long time ago when there was less traffic.

Just close it down and get it done, yes it will be an inconvenience to some however the end result is cheaper and faster to get things back up running. This is a massive need for the city and as you said the longer it waits the harder it will be.

[Djeffery]

And if they don't move Nan's house, it will be 2 years for that road closure.

Also, I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but the Wharncliffe project is listed as 2 phases in the city documents. Becher to Springbank including the rail crossing, and then Springbank to Commissioners. Is the city silly enough to actually close the intersection at Horton for several months (Stanley St intersection also is supposed to be lowered a few feet), and then close Wharncliffe south of Springbank later on, in effect, 2 construction seasons of closure? Rather than do these at the same time?