Canada Line races toward capacity

[goldenboi]

Hypothetically, do you guys think that the Broadway extension and potential 41st Ave skytrain would improve or worsen Canada Line congestion? Since both routes are perpendicular, many people would transfer to/from the Canada Line. Also, having a larger network will cause more people to use public transportation in general. However, these new lines might allow some people to avoid the Canada Line altogether, such as people going directly to UBC or Broadway/Oakridge employment centres. On the other hand, the Arbutus streetcar, being a parallel route, will certainly alleviate some pressure.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Expanding Oakridge is hardly dumb given that we are going to have to do the same at the rest of the stations eventually.

It's very unlikely that the Canada Line stations will ever be expanded beyond the knockouts that would allow 3-car train operation. Once that ultimate capacity is reached it will be very expensive to expand the stations further while still maintaining service. It's far more likely that a new, parallel line will be built along one of the other major north-south corridors, which would actually have a much higher net benefit.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's very unlikely that the Canada Line stations will ever be expanded beyond the knockouts that would allow 3-car train operation. Once that ultimate capacity is reached it will be very expensive to expand the stations further while still maintaining service. It's far more likely that a new, parallel line will be built along one of the other major north-south corridors, which would actually have a much higher net benefit.

Which North-South corridor(s) do you see as most probable? Granville?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

Hypothetically, do you guys think that the Broadway extension and potential 41st Ave skytrain would improve or worsen Canada Line congestion? Since both routes are perpendicular, many people would transfer to/from the Canada Line. Also, having a larger network will cause more people to use public transportation in general. However, these new lines might allow some people to avoid the Canada Line altogether, such as people going directly to UBC or Broadway/Oakridge employment centres. On the other hand, the Arbutus streetcar, being a parallel route, will certainly alleviate some pressure.

there is no potential for a 41st line, at least not for many many many many decades.

as for Broadway, would probably increase the downtown section as a relief for Expo-Line. i wouldn't expect any huge change south of that though unless bus rerouting force people onto Canada-Line somehow.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Which North-South corridor(s) do you see as most probable? Granville?

no no no... that is for the fantasy thread. this conversation has happened there before.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

there would be less crowds at station if trains came 2x as much. there wouldn't be 3 mins of people waiting, there would be 1.5 mins of people waiting.

Love how he completely ignores your argument. More trains just means more crowds in his little world.

[s211]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

so there is a lack of capacity apparently yet we are 10,000pphpd from reaching the build capacity? how does that work?

all that is needed is more trains for the neat future. sure, the system wasn't built the best, i took it for years, i know. the A/C could be more powerful, that's for sure.

Anything that would reduce the B.O. stench in those cars, all the better. It's the biggest reason why I do not prefer pubic transit. When transit makes you gag from the stench, you're selling me on its benefits exactly how?

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

there is no potential for a 41st line, at least not for many many many many decades.

as for Broadway, would probably increase the downtown section as a relief for Expo-Line. i wouldn't expect any huge change south of that though unless bus rerouting force people onto Canada-Line somehow.



no no no... that is for the fantasy thread. this conversation has happened there before.

Completely agreed on the 41st Ave part. People keep telling me it's needed but I rode the bus all the way to the Jewish Community Center and there was only one block with anything more than a storey or two in height. A B-Line should be fine.

[Reecemartin]

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[Reecemartin]

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[Reecemartin]

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[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Trains coming more frequently means more ingress/egress which means conflicts in the narrow passageways, at the small number of faregates, and on the tiny platforms.

Once again, more trains means less crowding. The ingress crowd is waiting for the next train; twice the frequency means half the people waiting on the platform, so less conflicts. The egress crowd is trying to exit the station, and (since the trains are still 2-car, meaning the same amount of riders) that'll still be accomplished in about a minute, so the platform is still cleared by the time the next train comes.

Even at rush hour, the Canada's corridors aren't a problem... also note that the Expo works fine with often narrower ones. And they can always install more faregates - see the plexiglass panels beside the existing gates?

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Once again, more trains means less crowding. The ingress crowd is waiting for the next train; twice the frequency means half the people waiting on the platform, so less conflicts. The egress crowd is trying to exit the station, and (since the trains are still 2-car, meaning the same amount of riders) that'll still be accomplished in about a minute, so the platform is still cleared by the time the next train comes.

Even at rush hour, the Canada's corridors aren't a problem... also note that the Expo works fine with often narrower ones. And they can always install more faregates - see the plexiglass panels beside the existing gates?

Would be good if all stations, or at least the major stations that were planned to be transfer stations, like Vancouver City Centre, Bridgeport, and Broadway City Hall were Spanish-solutioned. Since Broadway has a transfer the 99B, which requires people boarding the westbound bus to cross two streets, Broadway and Cambie respectively, it would've been best to build a tunnel to the NW corner of the Broadway/Cambie intersection, or at least turn that intersection into a pedestrian scramble.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The egress crowd is trying to exit the station, and (since the trains are still 2-car, meaning the same amount of riders) that'll still be accomplished in about a minute, so the platform is still cleared by the time the next train comes.

The total riders may be more, but since there are more train, the riders per train will be less (ie. less crowded trains). As a result, there would not be as many riders trying to leave the station at the same time.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by nname

The total riders may be more, but since there are more train, the riders per train will be less (ie. less crowded trains). As a result, there would not be as many riders trying to leave the station at the same time.

But that's assuming the same amount of ridership we have now... in which case, why increase the numbers of trains at all?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

But that's assuming the same amount of ridership we have now... in which case, why increase the numbers of trains at all?

If they increase the capacity by 60%, I don't expect the ridership to jump by the same 60% in a short amount of time. If the ridership only increase by 30%, then the average passenger per train actually decrease by 20%. By the time the 60% extra capacity filled up.... well that most likely at least a decade away...

Like I said, this "Canada line is over capacity" will become a non-issue for at least a decade.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by nname

If they increase the capacity by 60%, I don't expect the ridership to jump by the same 60% in a short amount of time. If the ridership only increase by 30%, then the average passenger per train actually decrease by 20%. By the time the 60% extra capacity filled up.... well that most likely at least a decade away...

Like I said, this "Canada line is over capacity" will become a non-issue for at least a decade.

Fair enough - and agreed, all the Canada needs right now is more trains.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Fair enough - and agreed, all the Canada needs right now is more trains.

No it's a lost cause. We unfortunately built a system that is too successful and has smashes it's ridership targets. People are currently trampling over each other. If we add more trains people will start to pace back and forth waiting to see that shiny new train before they get on with the rest of thier day. If only we had longer platform people have more room for people to pace. It would solve everything.

Oh well we should just tear the whole thing doesn't and build the LRT with it's nice long 80m platforms as we should have in the first place. It's slower and less frequent so we should be able to handle the more modest crowes of 80,000 a day that the line would have been lucky to get.

Now back in the real world we can make the best of a line that is probably underbuilt for the long term but can serve us well for the next couple decades. We are doubling the current frequency so that will solve most of our issues for the next decades or so. We need to make sure that the platform are extended to hold a third car in a timely manner so that we have the capacity for a decade after that.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by bardak

Now back in the real world we can make the best of a line that is probably underbuilt for the long term but can serve us well for the next couple decades. We are doubling the current frequency so that will solve most of our issues for the next decades or so. We need to make sure that the platform are extended to hold a third car in a timely manner so that we have the capacity for a decade after that.

Sounds about right. And seeing as three of the five busiest C-Line stations are the downtown ones (the other two being Broadway and Brighouse), a relief line down Arbutus should be able to pick up the slack just fine.

[Metro-One]

In the short term ordering more train sets (and therefore running trains more frequently) will be enough.

After that completing the station expansions to the full 50 meters and running 3 car trains will help further.

Outside of that secondary access points should be added at key stations.

Luckily this will be done to Broadway through the M-Line extension and YVR does plan to add a second platform. Also the Oakridge Mall redevelopment currently is hinting at direct mall access / expanded access to the station (this would set a good precedent for other major developments in the future).

After this is only really Van City Centre, Bridgeport and Brighouse that will be problematic. At that point is up to the cities and Translink to work on solutions (my suggestions, second northern access to Bridgeport, second southern access for Van City Centre, and new western platform for Brighouse)

The sky is not falling people, there is plenty of room still to grow and many of the further out solutions are already being worked on / anticipated for.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Platform width is much less important than length in our case and while several of these projects "might" happen, thats not enough, they need to happen. If you want to see the infrastructure needed for 15,000pph to be reliably met look no further than the Eglinton Crosstown which has platforms more than double the length of the Canada Line AND multiple entrances and exits. Theres no way that we will be hitting that with stations like Bridgeport in their current state.

With regards to the Surrey LRT even at full build out there is no comparison between the densities on the corridors. The Canada Line links several pieces of the regions most key infrastructure (airport, 2 largest employment centres, several of the largest malls). The Surrey LRT does not need to do the same. The funds are also significantly less for the LRT.

So Surrey wants to become the secondary core of the entire metro (as shown in all their future dream renders) so should they not plan a transit system that will at least be able to mach the Canada Line in performance??

This is not trying to knock Surrey, it is trying to help it. At the bare minimum the "downtown" portion of the L line should be grade separated (as subway or elevated) with further grade separated road crossings a major intersection along both of its arms.

And don`t worry about the Canada Line, as shown in my post above outside of 3 stations most of the needed infrastructure is already being planned / anticipated for. As for those 3 stations, we should start sending e-mails to Translink, the City of Vancouver, and the city of Richmond to give these suggestions traction.

Van City Centre being the most pressing IMO. Build a southern entrance there, and it will make a world of difference for passenger flow.