CANZUK International - "merger" of UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think it would actually be pretty bad for Canada to join the EU, whether or not the UK is in it.

In terms of migration we'd at best get to move to and work in countries with a roughly comparable standard of living. In exchange, there could be unlimited migration from countries like Bulgaria and Romania to Canada with no points-based entry system. Border restrictions with the US could get more strict because opening up borders with Canada would mean opening them up to a whole other continent as well. Presumably the EU would also impose restrictions on who we let in from non-EU countries.

Canada joining the Eurozone would probably be a huge mistake too. We would lose control over monetary policy and there is no reason to expect Canada to run at the same speed as, say, Germany. Canada already has problems with diverging economies in different regions (e.g. maybe NL should have a low interest rate now, while there is pressure to raise rates in ON or BC).

I think Canada needs considerable immigration.

Maybe ensuring that a lot of immigrants come from poorer European countries will make immigration more palatable to the natives in Canada? Of course, it could go the UK / Polish migrants route. But maybe the people constantly outraged by the presence of Chinese immigrants and stuff will be placated by Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants.

We might even be able to eschew glorious institutions like the Barbaric Practices Hotline and save some money there.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I think Canada needs considerable immigration.

Maybe ensuring that a lot of immigrants come from poorer European countries will make immigration more palatable to the natives in Canada? Of course, it could go the UK / Polish migrants route. But maybe the people constantly outraged by the presence of Chinese immigrants and stuff will be placated by Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants.

We might even be able to eschew glorious institutions like the Barbaric Practices Hotline and save some money there.

When I was in London for a week a few years ago, it was quite obvious that most of the hotel staff was eastern European. This didn't bother me in the slightest, but such a situation apparently causes considerable angst for the native Britons.

I don't think too many Canadians would be upset if there was enhanced eastern European migration to Canada........

What I think matters more to a multiracial country like Canada is how well the new immigrants meld into the broader society. By and large, most Europeans and most east and south Asians do quite well. Africans perhaps a little less well, and middle eastern Muslims the worst of all. The country is mostly colour blind. We just don't want our immigrants to be troublesome......

[1overcosc]

My brother works for a private sector company that has hired a lot of immigrants from the post-communist countries and apparently they all get along well.

Though I could see some cultural clashes. Many people from these countries are quite socially conservative (with the notable exception of the Czechs, Slovenes, and Estonians who are more in line with Western Europeans on these topics)--even more so than Middle Eastern or South Asian people from my experience (although it may merely be that East Europeans are more comfortable expressing those opinions).

[ue]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

When I was in London for a week a few years ago, it was quite obvious that most of the hotel staff was eastern European. This didn't bother me in the slightest, but such a situation apparently causes considerable angst for the native Britons.

I don't think too many Canadians would be upset if there was enhanced eastern European migration to Canada........

What I think matters more to a multiracial country like Canada is how well the new immigrants meld into the broader society. By and large, most Europeans and most east and south Asians do quite well. Africans perhaps a little less well, and middle eastern Muslims the worst of all. The country is mostly colour blind. We just don't want our immigrants to be troublesome......

Have you been to Vancouver lately?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ue

Have you been to Vancouver lately?

Well, yes, Vancouver may have regionally specific problems because of east Asian immigration. Around Moncton, we have more Koreans than Chinese but both groups are working very hard to be accepted by the majority and "fit in".

I'm aware of the discussions here on the forum, and my most recent trip to Vancouver was only about three years ago. I remember taking the sky train from downtown to Metrotown and being the only white person on the carriage. That was an eye opener I admit.

Still, there aren't too many terrorists amongst the Chinese immigrants. One would hope that by second or third generation that most of them will have integrated, but the larger the size of the minority, the more difficult integration will be - no question..........

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Mister F

That's why I said "despite the rhetoric". The mosaic vs melting pot thing is mostly a myth. By making immigrants feel welcome and giving them the support that they need (ie. the services that are part of the multiculturalism program, not pressuring people to abandon their cultures), they and their children tend to integrate more fully into society. If you try to coerce immigrants into conforming to some sort of cultural standard, it's just going to backfire. The proof is in the pudding. Research has shown that immigrant communities in Canada tend to integrate better than those in the United States and nearly every country in the world. What other countries integrate immigrants better than Canada? Which other system is better than ours?

Just watch out for Multiculti 2.0!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

. By and large, most Europeans and most east and south Asians do quite well. Africans perhaps a little less well, and middle eastern Muslims the worst of all. The country is mostly colour blind. We just don't want our immigrants to be troublesome......

I don't question your experience but this varies according to where in the country you find yourself.

In Quebec most people would probably put Africans close to the top of the list, and would probably split up Middle Easterners into as many as three distinct groups: Christians, "relaxed" Muslims and more "orthodox" Muslims, and rank them fairly differently based on that.

Anyway, I didn't even know we were allowed to say stuff like this on here!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

My brother works for a private sector company that has hired a lot of immigrants from the post-communist countries and apparently they all get along well.

Though I could see some cultural clashes. Many people from these countries are quite socially conservative (with the notable exception of the Czechs, Slovenes, and Estonians who are more in line with Western Europeans on these topics)--even more so than Middle Eastern or South Asian people from my experience (although it may merely be that East Europeans are more comfortable expressing those opinions).

They are also often non-PC to the extreme!

(Again, I didn't think we were supposed to, but I didn't start it, so...)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I think Canada needs considerable immigration.

Maybe ensuring that a lot of immigrants come from poorer European countries will make immigration more palatable to the natives in Canada? Of course, it could go the UK / Polish migrants route. But maybe the people constantly outraged by the presence of Chinese immigrants and stuff will be placated by Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants.

We might even be able to eschew glorious institutions like the Barbaric Practices Hotline and save some money there.

I know there are people for whom it's an issue but seriously, is there really a noteworthy outcry or backlash against non-European immigration in general in Canada?

If that's the case, I am not aware of it.

People may have issues with certain behaviours, and if they become convinced that it's more prevalent amongst the purple group they may come to have prejudices against the purple group. But I doubt that in most cases this will cause them to be prejudiced against, say, the orange group that's totally different from the purples, especially since the oranges are from the other side of the planet from the purples.

[ssiguy]

Why should we just have one with UK/Aus?NZ? We are an officially bi-lingual country so why would we exclude France?

Canada has far bigger fish to fry on trade than this and I say concentrate all efforts on the EU.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't question your experience but this varies according to where in the country you find yourself.

In Quebec most people would probably put Africans close to the top of the list, and would probably split up Middle Easterners into as many as three distinct groups: Christians, "relaxed" Muslims and more "orthodox" Muslims, and rank them fairly differently based on that.

Anyway, I didn't even know we were allowed to say stuff like this on here!

That's a very fair point. There was a strong Lebanese community in Charlottetown when I was growing up. They were all Christian Lebanese and fit quite well into the community. They were identifiable because they were a little more swarthy and tended to own corner stores, but otherwise they were just Islanders. Relaxed or secular Muslims I imagine would adapt to the Canadian reality quickly as well (language aside). I agree that it would be the non secular or fundamentalist Muslims that would be the most difficult to integrate, especially if they have an attachment to sharia law..........

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Why should we just have one with UK/Aus?NZ? We are an officially bi-lingual country so why would we exclude France?

Canada has far bigger fish to fry on trade than this and I say concentrate all efforts on the EU.

If we are talking trade routes France is also a lot closer geographically to Canada than Australia and New Zealand...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's a very fair point. There was a strong Lebanese community in Charlottetown when I was growing up. They were all Christian Lebanese and fit quite well into the community. They were identifiable because they were a little more swarthy and tended to own corner stores, but otherwise they were just Islanders. ...

They even gave you two Premiers by the name of Ghiz!

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Maybe ensuring that a lot of immigrants come from poorer European countries will make immigration more palatable to the natives in Canada?

The natives of Canada are not European.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree that it would be the non secular or fundamentalist Muslims that would be the most difficult to integrate, especially if they have an attachment to sharia law..........

Well, if we are to believe the crushing majority here on SSP Canada (and elsewhere), the number of people among them who espouse those views is very close to "zero", so there won't ever be anything to be concerned about!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

They even gave you two Premiers by the name of Ghiz!

Indeed. PEI had the first minority premier in the country (Joe Ghiz) and the first female premier in the country (Catherine Callbeck), who, depending on the rumours circulating around her was likely also the first lesbian premier as well. The current premier (Wade McLaughlin) is openly gay.

PEI - on the forefront of political change in Canada!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

The natives of Canada are not European.

Goode catche.

[Capsicum]

PEI actually has a lot of recent immigrants now for its size. It may be in the thousands, but having over three thousand people who immigrated in the period 2011-2016 is a lot for an island of around 150, 000 people. It's like having 2% of the population arriving in the last five years.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-immigrant-population-1.4370892

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Why should we just have one with UK/Aus?NZ? We are an officially bi-lingual country so why would we exclude France?

Canada has far bigger fish to fry on trade than this and I say concentrate all efforts on the EU.

France has not been as good to us. They nearly caused our country to break in three and led to societal breaks that still exist. We also generally have more culturally in common with the anglosphere than la francophonie; that includes francophones, of which I am one.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Goode catche.

I was looking for a way the other day to express that I was talking about the people who have been here for centuries, decided to forgo using "native Canadians" because it could be confused with "aboriginals", and now I don't even remember what word I used.

("Old-stock Canadians" generated a minor shitstorm, IIRC. Seems to me on the contrary to be a pretty direct equivalent to "Québécois de souche". Is there a preferred way of referring to people who aren't immigrants?)