Self-driving vehicles

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Automated cleaning cycles. They've already thought about it.

Unless they clean the car after every passenger there is always the risk that you will encounter something that you rather wouldn't in the car (various boldly fluids being the worst).

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Unless they clean the car after every passenger there is always the risk that you will encounter something that you rather wouldn't in the car (various boldly fluids being the worst).

No doubt there will be:
-onboard cameras. those that abuse, defoul, destroy within the car can be banned and/or fined
-ability to order another car immediately if the car that arrived is not in proper condition.
-some type of sensors that can identify radio frequencies of the cell phones of all passengers, thereby ensuring the person who ordered is the person who enters the car.

I can easily see the day when car ownership really begins to dwindle. I also expect automated cars to replace many forms of mass transit. Right now an individual or family that has a car has the following expenses:
-Purchase price + interest on loan
-annual insurance
-fuel
-repairs & maintenance
-Parking. -This could be a large ticket item right now for many. Those buying a condo need to buy a parking spot. Those that commute may need to pay daily parking. Using the car to shop downtown etc etc etc

Add all those costs then compare those costs to an annual "subscription" for an automated car service that can: Pick up one or more family members in the morning, drop off each member at school/work and repeat process in evening. The car service could do individual trips to pick up someone from school, drop them off at gym or whatever.
Considering the cost of ownership v the cost of a subscription to a service, I can easily see people opting for the subscription. Although in a different vein, years ago almost every home owner owned their hot water tank. Now (not so much for Alberta) many owners rent their hot water tank. Again, cost of ownership v cost of service & convenience.

[acottawa]

I wonder what the technology is like for locating locations, places to park, places to stop, etc. (the skillset a driverless uber would need).

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

No doubt there will be:
-onboard cameras. those that abuse, defoul, destroy within the car can be banned and/or fined
-ability to order another car immediately if the car that arrived is not in proper condition.
-some type of sensors that can identify radio frequencies of the cell phones of all passengers, thereby ensuring the person who ordered is the person who enters the car.

I can easily see the day when car ownership really begins to dwindle. I also expect automated cars to replace many forms of mass transit. Right now an individual or family that has a car has the following expenses:
-Purchase price + interest on loan
-annual insurance
-fuel
-repairs & maintenance
-Parking. -This could be a large ticket item right now for many. Those buying a condo need to buy a parking spot. Those that commute may need to pay daily parking. Using the car to shop downtown etc etc etc

Add all those costs then compare those costs to an annual "subscription" for an automated car service that can: Pick up one or more family members in the morning, drop off each member at school/work and repeat process in evening. The car service could do individual trips to pick up someone from school, drop them off at gym or whatever.
Considering the cost of ownership v the cost of a subscription to a service, I can easily see people opting for the subscription. Although in a different vein, years ago almost every home owner owned their hot water tank. Now (not so much for Alberta) many owners rent their hot water tank. Again, cost of ownership v cost of service & convenience.

...or automatically locked in the car and driven to the nearest police station

[1overcosc]

15-20 years in the future I can see OC Transpo eliminating off-peak local service in the suburbs in favour of automated vans or minibuses. Fixed route service will be pared back to the city centre and the rapid transit network all day, and the suburbs at peak periods only. A future off peak trip from Orleans to DT will be automated car to the nearest LRT station in Orleans.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

15-20 years in the future I can see OC Transpo eliminating off-peak local service in the suburbs in favour of automated vans or minibuses. Fixed route service will be pared back to the city centre and the rapid transit network all day, and the suburbs at peak periods only. A future off peak trip from Orleans to DT will be automated car to the nearest LRT station in Orleans.

I don't see this happening. If automated vehicles are available, then buses will be automated too. Fixed-route automated buses will be cheaper than variable to the door service.

This is a good article on this topic: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/should-transit-agencies-panic/550811/

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

15-20 years in the future I can see OC Transpo eliminating off-peak local service in the suburbs in favour of automated vans or minibuses. Fixed route service will be pared back to the city centre and the rapid transit network all day, and the suburbs at peak periods only. A future off peak trip from Orleans to DT will be automated car to the nearest LRT station in Orleans.

I don't see this happening unless they contract out the off-peak van service to a company that can find a use for them in peak periods. As I said before, the vast majority of the cost of providing service is purchasing the bus. They already have more than enough buses to provide off peak service, so buying vans or minibuses that will sit idle during peak periods (since they aren't big enough to be useful) is a waste of capitle.

The other issue of course is finding transit grade vans or minibuses (ones that can handle the abuse transit vehicles take day in, day out). Even school buses are not built to transit grade as they typically only used 3 or 4 hours a day, 5 days a week. Transit buses are typically used much more than that. It is a bit of a chicken and the egg thing. Bus manufacturers won't make them because there isn't a demand and there isn't a demand because no one makes them.

[McC]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The other issue of course is finding transit grade vans or minibuses (ones that can handle the abuse transit vehicles take day in, day out).... Bus manufacturers won't make them because there isn't a demand and there isn't a demand because no one makes them.

I've seen these little guys doing loops through Paris suburbs from RER stations. They were great: accessible, smooth, quiet and perfectly-sized for the task.

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sites/defaul...ne-commande-de-la-ratp.jpg?itok=EqI99uuN
Add automation, and they can just circulate around neighbourhoods that are within a few kilometres of a station continuously at low cost.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by McC

I've seen these little guys doing loops through Paris suburbs from RER stations. They were great: accessible, smooth, quiet and perfectly-sized for the task.

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sites/defaul...ne-commande-de-la-ratp.jpg?itok=EqI99uuN
Add automation, and they can just circulate around neighbourhoods that are within a few kilometres of a station continuously at low cost.

They look nice, but good luck getting them approved for use in North America.

[ssiguy]

I don't think driver-less cars will ever be that popular because it proceeds from a false assumption..........people don't like to drive. It will certainly have it's niche markets like the disabled and the elderly which is great that they will have new options but the reality is that most people like driving.

Driving is fun. People like to be "in the drivers seat". People like to run yellow lights, go faster than speed limit, gun it at red lights, passing the moron in front of you, doing u-turns, rolling stops, and swearing at the people a head of you because they are too damn slow. Driver-less cars turn driving from a personal adventure into sitting at the coach at Grandma's house.

Cars are also a status symbol and driver-less cars will take away much of that. In short, it will turn our ultimate sense of personal freemom into taking the city bus with all it's excitement. It takes the fun out of transportation in a world where people are trying to have {and keep} as much of the fun as they can.

[zzptichka]

"Ultimate sense of personal freedom"

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I don't think driver-less cars will ever be that popular because it proceeds from a false assumption..........people don't like to drive. It will certainly have it's niche markets like the disabled and the elderly which is great that they will have new options but the reality is that most people like driving.

Driving is fun. People like to be "in the drivers seat". People like to run yellow lights, go faster than speed limit, gun it at red lights, passing the moron in front of you, doing u-turns, rolling stops, and swearing at the people a head of you because they are too damn slow. Driver-less cars turn driving from a personal adventure into sitting at the coach at Grandma's house.

Cars are also a status symbol and driver-less cars will take away much of that. In short, it will turn our ultimate sense of personal freemom into taking the city bus with all it's excitement. It takes the fun out of transportation in a world where people are trying to have {and keep} as much of the fun as they can.

I think that is only part of it. People make choices about the kind of vehicle that they use. This eliminates choice. I personally picked a vehicle that could do the sorts of things that I want to do. Will autonomous vehicles be able to offer that flexibility? So you want to go to Home Depot for some reno material. How do you get it? Go by autonomous vehicle. Wait for delivery? How long is all the waiting?

If autonomous vehicles replace much of public transit, then our roads have to deal with more individual vehicles. How will that work?

I presume that fewer vehicles will be on the road overnight, which means a longer wait for your ride. How is that different from public transit? So you wait for 30 minutes for a vehicle in Kanata at 3 a.m. or what? Supply and demand will be a factor.

Then there is the whole profit factor. Service will have to generate profit. Surge pricing, like after a hockey game or on Canada Day when the service is needed most, maybe even at rush hour. How much will this really cost for our daily use? Something tells me there will be fewer savings than we imagine. And if we want to take a road trip into rural areas? How much will that cost and will there be restrictions?

It all sounds like one size fits all, which is not how transportation works.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I don't think driver-less cars will ever be that popular because it proceeds from a false assumption..........people don't like to drive. It will certainly have it's niche markets like the disabled and the elderly which is great that they will have new options but the reality is that most people like driving.

Driving is fun. People like to be "in the drivers seat". People like to run yellow lights, go faster than speed limit, gun it at red lights, passing the moron in front of you, doing u-turns, rolling stops, and swearing at the people a head of you because they are too damn slow. Driver-less cars turn driving from a personal adventure into sitting at the coach at Grandma's house.

Cars are also a status symbol and driver-less cars will take away much of that. In short, it will turn our ultimate sense of personal freemom into taking the city bus with all it's excitement. It takes the fun out of transportation in a world where people are trying to have {and keep} as much of the fun as they can.

Half the things you just suggested are why people die and get severely injured on the road. Yeah, it's fun, but if we can save lives by putting a machine that is always focused on the road, and always driving safely, I don't see much of a contest.
I'm sure heroin is fun, but we don't want people to do it for obvious reasons.

[Buggys]

It's nice to be able to leave things in your personal car, like sports equipment, child seats, etc.

It's nice to have the car there & ready whenever you want, even if you decide you want to use the car to go somewhere last minute.

There will still be used for personal cars.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Buggys

It's nice to be able to leave things in your personal car, like sports equipment, child seats, etc.

It's nice to have the car there & ready whenever you want, even if you decide you want to use the car to go somewhere last minute.

There will still be used for personal cars.

It all sounds like an alternative for public transit ............ at a higher cost to the user, which in the end will make public transit less viable.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I don't think driver-less cars will ever be that popular because it proceeds from a false assumption..........people don't like to drive. It will certainly have it's niche markets like the disabled and the elderly which is great that they will have new options but the reality is that most people like driving.

Driving is fun. People like to be "in the drivers seat". People like to run yellow lights, go faster than speed limit, gun it at red lights, passing the moron in front of you, doing u-turns, rolling stops, and swearing at the people a head of you because they are too damn slow. Driver-less cars turn driving from a personal adventure into sitting at the coach at Grandma's house.

Cars are also a status symbol and driver-less cars will take away much of that. In short, it will turn our ultimate sense of personal freemom into taking the city bus with all it's excitement. It takes the fun out of transportation in a world where people are trying to have {and keep} as much of the fun as they can.

I've seen reports and I've heard discussed (BNN for example) of how the buying trends for cars is rapidly changing. When I was approaching the age of 16 all I could think about was getting my drivers license. I'm sure I was a pest to my parents and older siblings to drive with me once I had my learners permit. From there, the biggest focus in my life was getting a car.

That's not the way it is now. The number of younger people getting their driver's' licenses is declining. The number of younger people buying cars is declining. In my younger days, having a car was indepence. Today, independence is having a phone with an app to hail a car.

An Uber-type of system with autonomous cars is the future. The costs will be minimal because one car can be driving and earning money almost 24-7. No doubt competition will exist. Higher-end rides, economy rides and probably even economy rides with the option to "share the ride". The computers will figure out two people closest for pickup going to roughly the same area.

Pride of ownership will exist for awhile. However, that demographic is declining.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

I've seen reports and I've heard discussed (BNN for example) of how the buying trends for cars is rapidly changing. When I was approaching the age of 16 all I could think about was getting my drivers license. I'm sure I was a pest to my parents and older siblings to drive with me once I had my learners permit. From there, the biggest focus in my life was getting a car.

That's not the way it is now. The number of younger people getting their driver's' licenses is declining. The number of younger people buying cars is declining. In my younger days, having a car was indepence. Today, independence is having a phone with an app to hail a car.

An Uber-type of system with autonomous cars is the future. The costs will be minimal because one car can be driving and earning money almost 24-7. No doubt competition will exist. Higher-end rides, economy rides and probably even economy rides with the option to "share the ride". The computers will figure out two people closest for pickup going to roughly the same area.

Pride of ownership will exist for awhile. However, that demographic is declining.

Trends are changing with the Millennials and even more so with Generation Z but it isn't quite as you describe. Independence for them is having a phone not with an app to hail a car but apps to allow them to chat with all of their friends and bring what they need to them. They rarely bother actually seeing each other so transportation is only necessary when they are required to leave home and with online shopping, that is becoming less and less necessary.

Once they start to have families, things will change though. I never really wanted a car in my youth as a bike or the bus could get me most anywhere I wanted, and time was never a huge factor. Even after I got married, we didn't have a car for the longest time. Even when we finally did get a car, we still used alternate modes of transportation a lot. It was only when we had kids that that the convenience of a car became important, largely because of time pressures. Waiting for your ride to show up is not a big deal when you are young and single, but when others are depending on you it becomes more of an issue.

I am curious how the car services will handle child car seats? Will you have to provide your own? If so, it would be a pain to have to constantly install and remove them and what do you do with them at your destination? If provided, can you request a car with right combination of forward facing, rear facing and booster seats? Also, what happens when your child has an "accident" or makes some other type of mess? Would a paranoid, germaphobe (ie. normal ) parent really want their precious bundle sitting in the same car seat that hundreds of other kids were sitting in?

[rocketphish]

City earmarks $300K of leftover project cash for autonomous vehicle test track

By Beatrice Britneff, Global News
June 4, 2018 11:20 am, Updated: June 4, 2018 12:56 pm

The city of Ottawa wants to use $300,000 of unused funds from other municipal projects towards getting the city’s autonomous vehicle (AV) test site up and running.

The private test track at the National Capital Commission’s Greenbelt Research Farm — bordered by West Hunt Club Road, Woodroffe Avenue, Fallowfield Road and Greenbank Road — still needs three signalized intersections, according to a report submitted to the city’s finance and economic development committee.

Should committee and city council approve the transfer of $300,000 towards the track, those funds would cover the cost of installing four poles to support the suspended signal heads, as well as the hydro posts and wiring to power them.

“With these funds, the site would become immediately usable to begin testing of autonomous vehicles,” said the report, submitted last week.

Every year the city seeks council’s approval to close a number of projects and simultaneously recommends what can be done with any savings or leftover funds. The treasury might suggest transferring money to other projects, for example, or returning the cash to its original source.

The finance committee will consider the city’s report on budget transfers — including the proposed extra funding for the autonomous vehicle test track — at its next scheduled meeting Tuesday morning.

The NCC’s Greenbelt Research Farm contains 16 kilometres of private roadway, according to the city’s report, and has received funding from the Ontario Centres of Excellence Autonomous Vehicles Innovation Network (AVIN) program.

The program announced a month ago it was giving Invest Ottawa $5 million for the national capital’s projects related to connected and autonomous vehicle testing, like the test track. The city of Ottawa and the NCC are two of a number of partners involved in the site’s development, including local post-secondary institutions and the Ottawa offices of tech giants like IBM Canada and BlackBerry.

In the report, city staff said they have $32.4 million left over from the $618.7 million budget originally approved by council. The finance committee will consider the city’s report on budget transfers at its next scheduled meeting Tuesday morning.

“(This) will result in $2.6 million being returned to tax supported reserve funds, $15.2 to rate supported reserve funds, $7.2 million being returned to the development charge accounts along with a reduction of $7.4 million of debt authority that is not needed to fund these projects,” the report said.

In addition, the city wants to spend $1 million of those savings on more pothole repairs.

“The number of freeze/thaw events in the winter of 2017/2018 has resulted in an increase in pothole and asphalt repair needs,” the report said. “The additional $1 million are one-time funds to assist in these efforts.”

The 2018 municipal budget carved out $8 million for its asphalt repair program — something it has been trying to improve since November, when the auditor general raised concerns that the asphalt the city was using fell short of contracted standards.

© 2018 Global News, a division of Corus Entertainment Inc.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4250781/city-...oject-cash-to-get-av-test-track-running/

[rocketphish]

North America’s first autonomous vehicle test track coming to Kanata

By Rosa Saba
Kanata North BIA

Kanata is home to an extensive ecosystem of companies involved in the research and development of autonomous vehicle technology. It’s a diverse field of firms and involves telecom companies led by BlackBerry QNX, Ericsson, Nokia and Juniper Networks; sensor companies such as SMATS and Neptec; companies that specialize in last-mile transportation including Aurrigo; and many more companies in robotics, cybersecurity and connectivity. Post-secondary instutions Algonquin College, Carleton University and the University of Ottawa are also part of this evolving collaborative effort.

Now, Ottawa will receive up to $5 million through the AVIN Program delivered by the Ontario Centres of Excellence to create an integrated AV test environment, the first in North America. This means the addition of a private test track in west Ottawa, plans for which are already underway. Companies will be able to conduct tests that aren’t ready or licensed for public roads yet on the private track.

However, plans have been in the works for at least a year and a half before the funding announcement; Invest Ottawa and the Kanata North Business Association, along with CAVCOE, have been looking for AV opportunities and working on the public track in Kanata North.

“Things are already in motion,” says Kelly Daize, director of global expansion for Invest Ottawa.

In October 2017, BlackBerry QNX used the existing public track for the first-ever AV test using live city infrastructure in North America. Witnesses saw the car stop at a traffic light for a pedestrian crossing.

The track, located in the Kanata technology park, is enabled with short-range wireless communication technology in nine traffic lights as well as a Novatel GPS system. Soon, the track will also have 4G capabilities, cameras, Nokia sensors and a 5G test spectrum from Ericsson and ISED.

Jamie Petten, executive director of the Kanata North Business Association, highlights how this test environment will be right in the backyard of Ottawa’s AV cluster, making it accessible for all the companies involved in AV research and development.

“All of the pieces are coming together for Ottawa to be the AV capital we want it to be,” she says.

Kelly says she sees Ottawa’s AV cluster as a central source of development for the most integral part of AV technology: communication.

“We don’t make the tires, we don’t make the doors … we make the intelligence,” she says.

Don’t expect to be buying your own autonomous vehicle anytime soon, though: Barrie Kirk of CAVCOE explains that while AV technology is already being used in the mining industry, the next place we’re likely to see it used is in farming.

After that will come last-mile pods and then eventually driverless cars, which he predicts will be mostly taxis or ride-sharing vehicles.

“Nobody is going to throw a big switch … it’s gradual,” he says.

https://www.serioustechliveshere.com/nor...ous-vehicle-test-track-coming-to-kanata/

[rocketphish]

BlackBerry opens up smart city infrastructure for connected car testing in Ottawa

By: Rosa Saba
Published: Dec 10, 2018 4:42pm EST

A new offering from BlackBerry could spur the development of new autonomous vehicle technologies with Ottawa acting as ground zero for the pilot program.

BlackBerry announced Monday it is making a new Security Credential Management System (SCMS) service free to the public and private sectors in an effort to encourage autonomous and connected vehicle pilot projects.

Using public key infrastructure (PKI) based on BlackBerry’s Certicom technology, the service will manage digital certificates used to ensure trustworthy communication between connected vehicles and infrastructure such as traffic lights.

After a year of interoperability testing, BlackBerry is making the SCMS service free for private and public organizations involved in smart city and connected vehicle pilot projects. In a press call on Monday, BlackBerry’s chief marketing officer Mark Wilson said he hopes this will further BlackBerry’s footprint in the evolving connected vehicle industry.

“Vehicles need to be able to securely communicate with other vehicles, infrastructure and a plethora of smart devices,” said Wilson, adding that the autonomous vehicle ecosystems of the future will rely on connectedness.

The first pilot project to use the service will be a partnership with Invest Ottawa that will see the technology integrated into the West Ottawa 16-kilometre private AV test track in early 2019. Connected and Autonomous Vehicles program director Kelly Daize confirmed that Invest Ottawa will work with the city to use the technology in the Kanata North public test track once it’s been fully tested on the private track.

The test tracks integrate emerging technologies such as 5G networks with existing city infrastructure including traffic lights and pedestrian walkways.

Daize said partnering with BlackBerry will help Ottawa to raise its international profile as a hub for autonomous and connected vehicle development.

Jim Alfred, head of Certicom for BlackBerry, said during the call that the company hopes making the SCMS service available will encourage more of these pilot projects.

“What we're doing today is expanding the market for connected vehicle pilots … and encouraging smart cities and OEMs and road operators to work with us,” said Alfred, explaining that connected and autonomous vehicle pilot projects can help the private and public sectors to understand possible business models for smart cities.

Alfred noted that BlackBerry’s SCMS service isn’t much different from what the United States Department of Transportation is using in current pilot projects, except that it’s built to scale up. However, he added there’s a lack of government policy for connected vehicle digital certificates. He said he hopes BlackBerry can position itself as an industry expert and integrator when it comes time to make autonomous vehicle infrastructure more than just a series of pilot projects.

“Intelligent transportation systems, we believe in them strongly … what we're trying to do is catalyze the market and be major players,” Alfred said.

https://obj.ca/techopia-blackberry-smart-city-connected-car-testing-ottawa