CANZUK International - "merger" of UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - Page 2

Acajack · #21 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Is there much practical difference between Canada's, Australia's, and New Zealand's multicultural policies?

If we are being honest there isn't really except for "nobody-does-it-better-than-Canada" types.

(There wasn't or even isn't much of a difference between Canada and the U.S., at least not in terms of pre-Trump American policy.)

kwoldtimer · #22 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

If we are being honest there isn't really except for "nobody-does-it-better-than-Canada" types.

(There wasn't or even isn't much of a difference between Canada and the U.S., at least not in terms of pre-Trump American policy.)

I believe the official Aussie position is that they do it most successfully.

Acajack · #23 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 5:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I believe the official Aussie position is that they do it most successfully.

I know that's what they think but there are lots of countries out there who think they're the best at managing diversity.

But there are more than enough (dare I say Quebec-esque in some cases?) debates Down Under over Australian values, integration expectations, who should adapt to whom, reasonable accommodation, etc. to definitely make the bien pensant Canadian raise an eyebrow.

It's not really a (virtual) identity and culture free-for-all in the way that some Canadians envision their country to be.

Innsertnamehere · #24 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 6:05 PM**

Australia is a lot more socially conservative than Canada. Freedom of movement would be nice, but I'd like energy to be focused on easier freedom of movement to the US first. Allowing a year to work in the US without a visa, increased cross border purchase limits, and reduced border security would be a good place to start.

MonctonRad · #25 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Australia is a lot more socially conservative than Canada. Freedom of movement would be nice, but I'd like energy to be focused on easier freedom of movement to the US first. Allowing a year to work in the US without a visa, increased cross border purchase limits, and reduced border security would be a good place to start.

Given the current xenophobic political culture and paranoia in the US, I think all of those points are non starters.

We're just lucky the Trumpians are concentrating all their efforts on the souther border. Don't forget all those 911 terrorists who infiltrated the US from Canada.......

Pinion · #26 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChillN

-This would be a wonderful opportunity to work and travel around but I wonder if Canada could experience a brain drain in the process. Just think, it's cold right now and you could be on a beach in Sydney right now instead!

Agree with this. Not to anyone's surprise who's been reading my posts I'm sure.

Acajack · #27 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 6:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Australia is a lot more socially conservative than Canada. Freedom of movement would be nice, but I'd like energy to be focused on easier freedom of movement to the US first. Allowing a year to work in the US without a visa, increased cross border purchase limits, and reduced border security would be a good place to start.

I think this is an excellent point. It would be way more beneficial to Canada and Canadians on both economic and practical levels.

But as you probably know, the U.S. has an "eeewww, you smell" taint about it for a lot of people. Even moreso with Trump in the White House.

As such, this CANZUK thing, while certainly interesting, is much more about how Canada would like itself to be than it is about how it actually is.

I apologize if I've already said this here, but it reminds me of this guy from Luxembourg I once met. His name was like Jacques Dormeyer. He said Luxembourgeois liked to think they were more like the French, but that deep down they knew they were more like the Germans but were in denial of this fact.

TorontoDrew · #28 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 7:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laceoflight

Sincerely. No thanks.
This ensemble would be way too homogeneous to be healthy for minorities such as French Canadians or First Nations...

I'll agree with French Canadians, but I don't see how it would be detrimental to the First Nations. I have close working ties with the native film and arts council here in Toronto and we have very close ties to both the New Zealand and Australian native scenes. Closer in fact then we share with our neighbours to the south.

GlassCity · #29 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 7:58 PM**

Can't decide what I think about brain drain. I'd like to think there's more that's keeping people in Canada than it being hard to leave, but who knows.

I'd be wary of importing the UK's social problems, and for this reason voted no.

Really CANZUK seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Movement between the 4 countries is already relatively free. What would this really improve?

Acajack · #30 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 8:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Really CANZUK seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Movement between the 4 countries is already relatively free. What would this really improve?

Movement between the four countries at the moment is no easier/difficult than it is between any of the four and most other countries AFAIK. There is very little in terms of special treatment that we afford to each other, aside maybe for a few specific programs like student working holidays...

If a British person wants to move here it's basically the same process as if a Russian or a Sri Lankan wants to move here.

If I want to move to Australia I am not more advantaged by virtue of being a Canadian versus that same Russian or Sri Lankan.

Acajack · #31 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 8:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I'd be wary of importing the UK's social problems, and for this reason voted no.

I highly doubt that very many people from the UK who are the cause of social problems or who are beset by them would move to Canada even if it were very easy to do.

Very few of these British types have moved to the European continent even if it's right across the Channel and there are few barriers to doing so.

GlassCity · #32 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 8:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Movement between the four countries at the moment is no easier/difficult than it is between any of the four and most other countries AFAIK. There is very little in terms of special treatment that we afford to each other, aside maybe for a few specific programs like student working holidays...

If a British person wants to move here it's basically the same process as if a Russian or a Sri Lankan wants to move here.

If I want to move to Australia I am not more advantaged by virtue of being a Canadian versus that same Russian or Sri Lankan.

Yeah that makes sense, I'll admit I don't actually know what I'm talking about here. Anecdotally, I'm just thinking of all the people I know that have gone and worked, mostly in Australia for extended periods of time. I don't know if they have to get visas or what, but the numbers have been so high that I just assumed it was easy to do.

A little embarrassed by my last post now, so let's rephrase. Is the benefit of attracting our Commonwealth friends to Canada more easily worth the cost of potentially losing Canadians to them, of ceding partial control of our immigration system, and of complicating our relationships with these other states? I'm still saying no.

saffronleaf · #33 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 9:09 PM**

I think this proposed CANZUK can consist of 9 nations:

1. Canada (English-speaking Canada)
2. Quebec
3. Newfoundland
4. Scotland
5. Northern Ireland
6. Wales
7. England
8. Australia
9. New Zealand

In addition, we could have nation-status or the like for North American Indigenous peoples and Oceanic Indigenous peoples.

saffronleaf · #34 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 9:10 PM**

What do you all think will happen as far as population flows?

I would love to live and work for an extended period in London. I imagine Australia and New Zealand will attract many given the damp, cool, overcast winters of the UK and the frigid, bone-shivering temperatures of Canadian winters.

saffronleaf · #35 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Australia is a lot more socially conservative than Canada. Freedom of movement would be nice, but I'd like energy to be focused on easier freedom of movement to the US first. Allowing a year to work in the US without a visa, increased cross border purchase limits, and reduced border security would be a good place to start.

Sadly, that will never happen. Many Canadians despise the US and spend a considerable amount of their free time complaining about the US. It's a national pastime.

1overcosc · #36 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 9:12 PM**

One big benefit of an EU-style arrangement for CANZUK would be the creation of a single economic market of 130 million people.. a much bigger space for our businesses to grow in.

saffronleaf · #37 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Multiculturalism is one of the shared values of the anglosphere, arguably. London is one of the most diverse cities on earth.

Yup, besides Canada manages to get things to work even though there are very dramatic differences in different regions (namely Quebec) in terms of views about multiculturalism and such.

SignalHillHiker · #38 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 10:03 PM**

Yes, absolutely - and the stronger that level of government, the better, especially as it concerns fisheries. I'm less enthusiastic about likely stricter regulations on the oil and gas industry, but only for selfish provincial economy reasons. Ideologically, I support stricter rules. I just don't want to lose my corner of the world.

SpongeG · #39 Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 11:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Australia is a lot more socially conservative than Canada. Freedom of movement would be nice, but I'd like energy to be focused on easier freedom of movement to the US first. Allowing a year to work in the US without a visa, increased cross border purchase limits, and reduced border security would be a good place to start.

it's extremely easy to work in the states. A graphic designer friend of mine got on a plane landed in New York got a special whatever it is VISA stamped at the airport and has or had lived in New York for 7 years or so, he spent a year in montreal and has now moved to Los Angeles.

I always thought those special whatever visas meant really specialized professions but he's just a graphic Designer, they are like a dime a dozen.

He now has his green card after living in the states and applying for it etc.

and if you have a status card you don't need a work visa to work in the states.

SpongeG · #40 Posted **Jan 24, 2018, 12:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Yeah that makes sense, I'll admit I don't actually know what I'm talking about here. Anecdotally, I'm just thinking of all the people I know that have gone and worked, mostly in Australia for extended periods of time. I don't know if they have to get visas or what, but the numbers have been so high that I just assumed it was easy to do.

A little embarrassed by my last post now, so let's rephrase. Is the benefit of attracting our Commonwealth friends to Canada more easily worth the cost of potentially losing Canadians to them, of ceding partial control of our immigration system, and of complicating our relationships with these other states? I'm still saying no.

its easy but there is an age restriction, i believe the cut off is 27. AFAIK Ireland had the oldest age that one could do a working holiday at 35. A guy i knew was too old to do it for a lot of countries he looked into and only ireland had a program he was able to do, he was about 33 at the time.