Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I say free rides, but you need a Presto (or Multi) to get through the gates. This would encourage ridership, get people familiar with the system and test the fare gates while limiting fare hoppers (if you have a smart card, it's probably loaded).

This would actually be a very creative way of encouraging occasional or non-transit users to get a Presto Card. And once you've got one and you've tried the system, it might act as a "gateway drug" to more transit usage.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I assume you're referring to visibly poor or homeless people - "ragged people", as Paul Simon might say.

100% of the people I've ever seen purposefully getting on the back door of a short bus (the ones with big "Front Door Boarding Only" stickers next to the back doors) were not visibly poor or homeless. They're more the arrogant "the system doesn't apply to me" or "oh I totally didn't know you weren't allowed do this" type of people.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I say free rides, but you need a Presto (or Multi) to get through the gates. This would encourage ridership, get people familiar with the system and test the fare gates while limiting fare hoppers (if you have a smart card, it's probably loaded).

Like this idea also.

[Kitchissippi]

Joy-riding and fare-hopping are two different things. Joy-riders pay but will tend to overwhelm the system in the beginning since they're just on for the sake of riding the new trains likely from end to end and back several times. Judging by the way Ottawans flocked to events like Kontinuum and Miiwate, that should last for about two weeks, then remain slightly high until the novelty wears off.

Seems like the only remaining track to be installed is in the tunnel which should be pretty straightforward since there's no tamping. I've walked along the trench between Tunney's and Pimisi and it look just as ready as the east end.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

100% of the people I've ever seen purposefully getting on the back door of a short bus (the ones with big "Front Door Boarding Only" stickers next to the back doors) were not visibly poor or homeless. They're more the arrogant "the system doesn't apply to me" or "oh I totally didn't know you weren't allowed do this" type of people.

Distasteful as it may be, I don't see how it drives away riders.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Distasteful as it may be, I don't see how it drives away riders.

It drives away otherwise paying riders, who think, "If he could get away with not paying, then I want that deal for myself too".

[caveat.doctor]

How often does OC Transpo do fare inspections? I've only once ever had someone come aboard and check for proof of payment, and that was in 2007 before Presto. Do they actually have scanners now to check that cards have been tapped?

When I was living in San Diego there were constantly inspectors going through the trains and the stations (even without gates, they are fare-paid areas), and it seems to work. They even "swarm" stations with inspectors from time to time to get everyone - I guess just catching even a few evaders with $200 fines makes it worthwhile. https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/trolley-cops-mostly-swarm-these-two-areas/

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Not the fact that people fare hop - the type of people who fare hop are people they don't want to be around on the bus. Gated stations for trains resolves this.

Because it is impossible to hop over a 3 foot gate.

I saw someone in Montreal hop the gate at a Metro station and sprint to the platform where a train was just arriving, and that was with someone in the ticket booth (she just rolled her eyes).

[J.OT13]

We'll still see fare hoppers, literally, even with the gates, but having that physical barrier will discourage the majority of those who do so currently on the open bus system.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

100% of the people I've ever seen purposefully getting on the back door of a short bus (the ones with big "Front Door Boarding Only" stickers next to the back doors) were not visibly poor or homeless. They're more the arrogant "the system doesn't apply to me" or "oh I totally didn't know you weren't allowed do this" type of people.

I do see many people who seem, superficially, to be disadvantaged, but by faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the largest rear-door-jumping demographic is... post-secondary students who have applied to and been admitted to universities or colleges, but who still can't read a simple notice affixed to the rear entrance of a bus.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I do see many people who seem, superficially, to be disadvantaged, but by faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the largest rear-door-jumping demographic is... post-secondary students who have applied to and been admitted to universities or colleges, but who still can't read a simple notice affixed to the rear entrance of a bus.

Yes but post-secondary students have at least paid for their U-Pass and the right to use transit. It is universal and the cost is built into their incidental student fees. Only if you meet certain criteria can you apply for an exemption.

http://www.octranspo.com/tickets-and-passes/u_pass

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Yes but post-secondary students have at least paid for their U-Pass and the right to use transit. It is universal and the cost is built into their incidental student fees. Only if you meet certain criteria can you apply for an exemption.

http://www.octranspo.com/tickets-and-passes/u_pass

All of which has ZERO bearing on whether they are permitted to board by the rear doors of anything other than double-deckers or bendy buses.

I have a monthly pass, too. I follow the rules.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

All of which has ZERO bearing on whether they are permitted to board by the rear doors of anything other than double-deckers or bendy buses.

I have a monthly pass, too. I follow the rules.

I follow the rules too, but to be fair - its a dumb rule.

[mykl]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I follow the rules too, but to be fair - its a dumb rule.

How is it a dumb rule? It only occurs on short buses. They don't do fare inspections on short buses because the theory is that you must get on at the front door and pay the driver, who sees every rider that way.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by mykl

How is it a dumb rule? It only occurs on short buses. They don't do fare inspections on short buses because the theory is that you must get on at the front door and pay the driver, who sees every rider that way.

I tend to agree. In theory standard buses should only be used on routes with low ridership. Routes with low ridership shouldn't have many people boarding at once, thus there should be minimal advantage to boarding through the rear door.

Now if a standard bus is used on a route with high ridership for some reason, that is a different story.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I tend to agree. In theory standard buses should only be used on routes with low ridership. Routes with low ridership shouldn't have many people boarding at once, thus there should be minimal advantage to boarding through the rear door.

Now if a standard bus is used on a route with high ridership for some reason, that is a different story.

What about in fare paid zones? I tend to think that rear door boarding should be allowed on all buses once the fare paid zones are in effect. The number of boarding all buses will likely be fairly high at the LRT transfer points.

[Horus]

File under 'Saw this one coming'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-rtg-handover-deadline-1.4500715

Ottawa LRT not likely to be handed over to city on time, says transit boss
The public won't be told the new date for weeks, when John Manconi hopes to share an opening date

By Joanne Chianello, CBC News Posted: Jan 24, 2018 7:25 AM ET Last Updated: Jan 24, 2018 7:25 AM ET

Today is decision day for the Rideau Transit Group.

The day the consortium building Ottawa's $2 billion light-rail system has to tell the city whether it's going to make its May 24 deadline to hand over control of the tunnels and tracks it's been building for years.

It seems unlikely.

"Our assessment — and every indication we have — leads us to believe there's no way they're going to make May 24," said John Manconi, the city's general manager of transportation.

But even when the consortium does give the city a new date, the public won't find out what it is for weeks.
Possible delay announced last month

Manconi and other rail officials said they will update council's finance and economic development committee sometime in the first quarter of this year.

There are two finance committees scheduled during the first three months of this year, one Feb. 6 and another March 6.

Rideau Transit Group (RTG) was obliged to tell the city on Nov. 24 whether it would be able to turn over the LRT to the city by May 24, the date stipulated in the project contract.

The consortium said it could make the date, but it was "risky."

However, neither the public nor councillors knew that RTG was in danger of not making its deadline until Dec. 15, raising the ire of a number of elected officials who had asked specifically about the light-rail timeline during 2018 budget discussions in early December.

At the time, Manconi said the city gave RTG until Jan. 24 to say definitively what the date will be.

Although the city and RTG have been in intensive talks late last year and this month, Manconi told CBC on Tuesday "we still don't have a firm date."

Unclear if RTG on schedule

And when the consortium does name a new date, Manconi said he won't make it public until the city's rail staff can confirm the new deadline is realistic and that the city "has confidence that RTG can make it work."

Asked why he can't even say what date he'll address the finance committee, Manconi said he wants to be sure he can answer all the questions that will arise from a new delivery date.

That includes being able to give some indication of when light rail will be in service.

The transit boss said that once it takes over, it will take several weeks of operating and testing before the city will actually start operating the rail system — assuming all that testing goes fine.

Manconi could not say whether RTG was on schedule with various aspects of the giant project.

For example, 23 of the 34 rail cars have been assembled, but it's not clear whether that's the number RTG expected to have completed by this time.

Both Manconi and Mayor Jim Watson have said they will impose the fines that are stipulated in the contract should RTG miss its May 24 deadline, although those details are likely to be sorted out later.

Manconi pointed out that RTG will be losing out on millions of dollars in payments from the city the longer it takes to complete the rail system.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I follow the rules too, but to be fair - its a dumb rule.

In what way is it dumb? The rear doors on 40-footers are narrower, and there's only one of them.

I'd rather not pay for the added expense of installing card readers on the 40-foot fleet, of conducting fare inspections on them, and suffer the additional dwell times that would be caused by boarding and disembarking passengers fighting over that one narrow door (it's bad enough on artics and DD).

This is not a difficult rule to understand, unless, apparently, you are a student at a post-secondary institution.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I tend to agree. In theory standard buses should only be used on routes with low ridership. Routes with low ridership shouldn't have many people boarding at once, thus there should be minimal advantage to boarding through the rear door.

Now if a standard bus is used on a route with high ridership for some reason, that is a different story.

If the ridership is high, that's even more reason to not permit rear-door boarding on low-capacity buses: it would make already-bad dwell-time problems even worse.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

What about in fare paid zones? I tend to think that rear door boarding should be allowed on all buses once the fare paid zones are in effect. The number of boarding all buses will likely be fairly high at the LRT transfer points.

Possibly, depending on the demand. I suspect that most routes that have low capacity buses will be at the beginning/end of their route in the fare paid zone, so it isn't as if the bus pulls up, 10 people get off, 10 people get on and the bus drives away. Boarding will also be fast in fare paid zones as no one is fumbling for their pass, transfer, tickets, or change.