Amazon HQ2 thread

[C.]

I will be shocked if Miami gets this. The campus concept seems so 80s. What happened to thinking creatively? Also, how is transit in Miami?

[emathias]

Originally Posted by CIA

I will be shocked if Miami gets this. The campus concept seems so 80s. What happened to thinking creatively? Also, how is transit in Miami?

Miami has a lot of plans for transit, real plans, not pipe dreams. It's not great now, but it's kinda like a smaller scale version of what LA is doing.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Miami’s Offer To Amazon: A City Within A City
...

Actually kinda seems comparable with the Old Post Office and environs location in Chicago's bid.

[C.]

Originally Posted by emathias

Miami has a lot of plans for transit, real plans, not pipe dreams. It's not great now, but it's kinda like a smaller scale version of what LA is doing.

Link?

Most Florida cities are so auto dependent, in my opinion. I'm sure they're plans, but it will be hard for real public transit to be successful in a city like Miami.

[10023]

Originally Posted by JManc

I must be one of those hip gen-Xer's...I've been using Amazon since the late 90's (wish I bought their stock back then too) as well as other online retailers from the early days.

Are we all doing this now?

I'm an "old Millennial". I buy quite a lot of "stuff that doesn't matter" on Amazon. Most things I want to see and feel, but I'm perfectly happy ordering a plastic wheel for storing Christmas tree lights or an extra set of cedar shoe trees on Amazon. It's also good for American things that you can't easily find here. But that ends up being quite a lot of crap... I placed 17 orders in the past 6 months, apparently.

As for groceries, my partner buys stuff like bottled water and paper towels from one of the big online grocery companies here, but that's it. Actual food is perhaps the absolute last thing I'd buy online. The only exceptions, again, are times like when I've run out of masa harina for making corn tortillas, because I can't just pick that up at any grocery store.

I'm also a fan of Mr Porter.

Oh, and as an ex-pat, online shopping in general is invaluable for Christmas and birthday gifts. I'm not going to take physical merchandise, wrap it, and send it to the States.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

ditto.

not because i really want HQ2 in chicago, but moreso because i don't want anyone else to get it.

in our relative zero-sum world, another city's gain is chicago's loss, and losing sucks.

I think Chicago would benefit from the positive PR as much as any real net addition of jobs. Not just for the city in general, counteracting its rep in some quarters as a crime-ridden hellhole, but for its nascent tech sector.

Hopefully someone has mentioned the "picking Chicago is giving the finger to Trump" angle to Bezos...

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

RE: Atlanta's traffic

Come to find out, it's not that bad compared to other comparable metro, despite what has become a common assumption...

https://static.tti.tamu.edu/tti.tamu.edu/documents/ums/congestion-data/national/national-table2.pdf

Since I travel the country for work, this has been obvious to me for years. Atlanta's traffic isn't great, but it's noticeably worse in any number of other metros...Chicago, Boston, New York, DC, LA, etc. We get an undeserved bad rap about it.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Since I travel the country for work, this has been obvious to me for years. Atlanta's traffic isn't great, but it's noticeably worse in any number of other metros...Chicago, Boston, New York, DC, LA, etc. We get an undeserved bad rap about it.

Indeed.

Part of the issue is that people assume traffic in North Fulton / Gwinnett / East Cobb represents all of Atlanta, when that's not the case.

I'm on the south side of town (I-85) and I rarely run into traffic delays when traveling in/out of the city.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Since I travel the country for work, this has been obvious to me for years. Atlanta's traffic isn't great, but it's noticeably worse in any number of other metros...Chicago, Boston, New York, DC, LA, etc. We get an undeserved bad rap about it.

Alternative means of transportation are far more readily available in Chicago, Boston, New York, and DC, so it's actually possible for people to forego driving/car ownership. You can live 60+ miles from downtown Chicago or New York and get there via commuter trains.

LA is in its own category for traffic. It can be a nightmare.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 10023

Are we all doing this now?

I'm an "old Millennial". I buy quite a lot of "stuff that doesn't matter" on Amazon. Most things I want to see and feel, but I'm perfectly happy ordering a plastic wheel for storing Christmas tree lights or an extra set of cedar shoe trees on Amazon. It's also good for American things that you can't easily find here. But that ends up being quite a lot of crap... I placed 17 orders in the past 6 months, apparently.

Apparently not.

But I'm the same way, for things I have to touch and feel (jeans, washer/ dryer and a TV) I buy in a store. My wife orders groceries online and then picks them up on her way home. I bought my niece (who lives in NY) a drone for Christmas and had Amazon ship there (free) rather than me paying for postage and shipping myself. For gifts, Amazon is great.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by 10023

Are we all doing this now?

not me.

as i said before, my wife uses amazon during Xmas shopping season because time, but for the VAST majority of day-to-day shit we still buy at a brick and mortar retail store because i just prefer it that way.

if i want to talk the urban talk, then i've got to walk the urban walk and literally walk around my neighborhood and buy shit from neighborhood stores to keep them in business.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by CIA

Link?

Most Florida cities are so auto dependent, in my opinion. I'm sure they're plans, but it will be hard for real public transit to be successful in a city like Miami.

There's not like one link, I just follow the news about transit in major metros. I'm not going to go digging for all the news articles I've read over the past year - you can do your own Googling.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by CIA

Link?

Most Florida cities are so auto dependent, in my opinion. I'm sure they're plans, but it will be hard for real public transit to be successful in a city like Miami.

I'll help out, since CIA is internet-search challenged.

They are auto dependent, but Miami certainly has the most extensive transit infrastructure in the state (and significantly more than many cities anywhere in the US). Though unfortunately, transit ridership is down there recently. Miami-Dade's Metro system is far from perfect, but I completely disagree that it will be hard for it to be successful. It just requires better connectivity (which is planned). With South Florida's pancake-flat terrain, that connectivity is accomplished more easily than in other locales, and it's happening now.

A new central station is currently u/c... not too many cities can say that they are building a massive new "Grand Central Station"... especially not one that is a full mixed-use TOD that will cover over 6 downtown blocks and connect the existing light rail, automated downtown peoplemover, bus, commuter heavy rail, and currently u/c high-speed rail.

http://miamicentral.com/

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

if i want to talk the urban talk, then i've got to walk the urban walk and literally walk around my neighborhood and buy shit from neighborhood stores to keep them in business.

Well said.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

not me.

as i said before, my wife uses amazon during Xmas shopping season because time, but for the VAST majority of day-to-day shit we still buy at a brick and mortar retail store because i just prefer it that way.

if i want to talk the urban talk, then i've got to walk the urban walk and literally walk around my neighborhood and buy shit from neighborhood stores to keep them in business.

If I didn't have the commute from hell, I'd be far more inclined to do more a brick and mortar shopping.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Alternative means of transportation are far more readily available in Chicago, Boston, New York, and DC, so it's actually possible for people to forego driving/car ownership. You can live 60+ miles from downtown Chicago or New York and get there via commuter trains.

LA is in its own category for traffic. It can be a nightmare.

I think all the online "rankings" of traffic you see are bullshit. They usually don't differentiate between people who spend lots of time in traffic voluntarily and people who are doing it because they chose to live in a part of the metro that is obviously going to be a nightmere to get to and from. In Chicago, for example, there is rarely severe traffic within the city limits itself. The worst traffic is reserved for the fringes of the city where the CTA stops. I live 5 miles from downtown and a total nightmare traffic scenario means a 30 minute drive into downtown. If you live in Schaumburg that number is 3 hours. The average traffic for me to get to downtown is maybe a 5-10 minute delay during rush hour. It's probably a 45 minute delay from Schaumburg. I see no reason why the delays experienced by people who choose to live in a place that will obviously be commuter hell should count towards anything in these traffic rankings.

That, I'm sure, is true for most metros. Of course you are going to sit in traffic for hours a week if you are stupid enough to try to commute into Manhattan by car every day from some suburb 45 minutes away (without traffic). That is not in any way comparable to people who live in Atlanta or LA where there is no choice but to commute by car. Everyone who is commuting is sitting in traffic for hours a week because there is no alternative. I might sit in traffic in Chicago sometimes, but it's of my own volition because I decide I need the car for this or that, not because I absolutely must drive. But I have also chosen to live somewhere that limits my maximum exposure to traffic because I'm not reliant on a car and I'm not starting with a high base distance to travel.

So while I'm sure traffic in the aggregate in Chicago or NYC or similarly urban areas is bad, its not the same as sun belt cities which experience widespread gridlock across the whole system because everyone is driving. In Chicago it's mainly just freeways in certain areas that carry large amounts of traffic into or out of downtown at certain times of the day serving certain not so bright groups of people who insist on commuting from suburban hellholes by car.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Alternative means of transportation are far more readily available in Chicago, Boston, New York, and DC, so it's actually possible for people to forego driving/car ownership. You can live 60+ miles from downtown Chicago or New York and get there via commuter trains.

LA is in its own category for traffic. It can be a nightmare.

I won't argue with you on that point, and yet, as I said, traffic is still worse in all of those areas.

[Marv95]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

As much as I want Newark to win the lack of Rail transit Expansions has left the city grid locked for a few hrs during the rush. 50,000 jobs downtown will only make things worse unless the lack of Rail transit between Newark and Paterson / Elizabeth and points Northwest is addressed. We have a state plan that addressed many of those issues with subway and LRT expansions but the Newark Portion was shelved 15 years ago in favor of Hudson County... None of the politicos in Newark or NJ have addressed this...but it will cripple the city and neighboring towns...

The same can be said for all cities on the list. At least the transit is there. Murphy to his credit said that he wants to invest more in NJT. And PATH is supposed to be extending to the South Ward near EWR which would include a transit village and parking. The city subway and light rail aren't that crowded anyways, and the reverse commute on the PATH and NJT has low ridership.

You can free up some of that gridlock with HOV lanes on 280 and or 21 with express buses from the north and western burbs(ie Houston). Or lure those commuters downtown into the market rate housing that would result from Amazon. The city population was 400K before and its downtown population was much larger than it is now.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Since I travel the country for work, this has been obvious to me for years. Atlanta's traffic isn't great, but it's noticeably worse in any number of other metros...Chicago, Boston, New York, DC, LA, etc. We get an undeserved bad rap about it.

I travel a lot for work too... Atlanta's is the worst I've ever encountered. The difference between New York and Atlanta is that it is very easy to get around New York without having to use a car. Not so in Atlanta.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I travel a lot for work too... Atlanta's is the worst I've ever encountered. The difference between New York and Atlanta is that it is very easy to get around New York without having to use a car. Not so in Atlanta.

The OP posted some traffic stats, and that's what I was backing up with my own personal experience. If you are maintaining that it's easier to drive around Chicago, or NYC, or Boston, or DC, or LA, than Atlanta, I'll simply say that that has not been my own experience, at all. Or, if you've saying you've driven in all those cities, and Atlanta is the worst, I'd just say I have a hard time believing that. Due to the work I do, rapid transit is not an option when I'm traveling for work. I'm always having to rent a car and drive. Even for my NYC jobs, I have to rent a car.

[C.]

Originally Posted by emathias

There's not like one link, I just follow the news about transit in major metros. I'm not going to go digging for all the news articles I've read over the past year - you can do your own Googling.

Originally Posted by pj3000

I'll help out, since CIA is internet-search challenged.

They are auto dependent, but Miami certainly has the most extensive transit infrastructure in the state (and significantly more than many cities anywhere in the US). Though unfortunately, transit ridership is down there recently. Miami-Dade's Metro system is far from perfect, but I completely disagree that it will be hard for it to be successful. It just requires better connectivity (which is planned). With South Florida's pancake-flat terrain, that connectivity is accomplished more easily than in other locales, and it's happening now.

A new central station is currently u/c... not too many cities can say that they are building a massive new "Grand Central Station"... especially not one that is a full mixed-use TOD that will cover over 6 downtown blocks and connect the existing light rail, automated downtown peoplemover, bus, commuter heavy rail, and currently u/c high-speed rail.

http://miamicentral.com/

You guys are right. I have no explanation other than complete and utter laziness on my side for not doing my own googling. Nonetheless, the info is appreciated. Cheers!