Amazon HQ2 thread

[M II A II R II K]

If they pick a Canadian city those US cities may feel betrayed.

[skyscraper]

This may not be an original thought, but I am increasingly of the opinion that even though Amazon stipulated one proposal per MSA, they have allowed NYC / Newark and DMV in the top 20 either to spark a bidding war among the interested parties / local / state governments, or to have them cooperate with each other and consolidate their bids into one. And that Amazon has allowed both Pittsburgh and Philly into the top 20 so that the state will have even more incentive to sweeten the deal for whichever one (Philly) gets picked.

[IrishIllini]

I know Pittsburgh has been rebounding, but why are people so high on it? I guess I'm just struggling to understand why Detroit was written off, but Pittsburgh, a city that experienced just as dramatic a decline, lives to see the second round.

If it really was transit, I guess the only real contenders are New York, Chicago, DC, Philadelphia, and Boston...

[sopas ej]

It's funny to me that people are really into this second headquarters thing, hehe!

No me importa.

[M II A II R II K]

Why Toronto Made ‘the Playoffs’ for Amazon’s Headquarters

https://nytimes.com/2018/01/18/business/why-toronto-made-the-playoffs-for-amazons-headquarters.html

.....

- Canada’s relatively new immigration program that gives visas to certain skilled workers within two weeks. That’s light speed compared with the complicated American system. And unlike the United States, Canada does not limit how many of those visas can be issued each year. — Toronto’s second asset is its publicly funded university and college system. The University of Waterloo has long been recognized as one of North America’s top technology schools, and the University of Toronto is a major center for research in artificial intelligence.

.....

[Capsule F]

My fwiend SaId iT WoUld be us AnD my poppy' thougt So 2 sO it wil DefInItelY be My CiTy

[emathias]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I know Pittsburgh has been rebounding, but why are people so high on it? I guess I'm just struggling to understand why Detroit was written off, but Pittsburgh, a city that experienced just as dramatic a decline, lives to see the second round.

If it really was transit, I guess the only real contenders are New York, Chicago, DC, Philadelphia, and Boston...

Pittsburgh's decline, as bad as it has been, was nothing compared to Detroit's.

Detroit has lost 64% of its population and is still losing people at close to 1% per year and since 1990 has lost over 1% per year on average, with 2000-2010 being especially bad with 2.5% per year leaving. Detroit's finances got so terrible that it had to file for bankruptcy to address them. In 2010 the median family income was about $31,000. Per-capita income was about $14,110. About 1/3 of Detroit families are below the poverty line.

Pittsburgh has lost 55% of its population but while still slightly declining, the population has mostly stabilized now. Since 1990 the average has been less than 1% per year with population since 1990 being much more stable than Detroit. It had some serious financial issues, but has managed its way out of the worst of it without resorting to bankruptcy. In the median family income was $38,795 with per-capita income at $18,816. About 15% of Pittsburgh families are below the poverty line.

Additionally, Pittsburgh has been widely recognized as managing a transition from an industrial economy to a more advanced, modern economy. Detroit has been a poster child for pretty much the opposite of how a city should manage such a transition. It is, finally, gaining some traction is doing that, mainly due to the dedicated work of a few civic-minded corporate leaders who have intentionally focused on locating and expanding in downtown Detroit. But it is way behind what Pittsburgh has done and continues to do. To note something specific to the HQ2 competition, despite Detroit being over double the population of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh's transit system carries an average of nearly 2 1/2 times as many riders on an average day, indicating that transit is very much better integrated to local culture in Pittsburgh - for cities outside of the Northeast Corridor, Pittsburgh generally only trails Chicago in transit use per capita.

[ScreamShatter]

Looking at all the proposals, it seems to me Chicago and Philly are in a league of their own on this one because of location, educated population, research universities, quality of life, housing prices, transportation, culture, potential for Amazon to grow in the area, and proposed locations. This RFP really seems custom created for what these two cities have to offer.

That said, I can see the appeal of areas around DC too, but I still don't think they have all the benefits of Chicago and Philly. My money is on one of these two cities or northern VA, and I feel Philly might have the edge if:

1. The city government builds a strong working relationship with Amazon and
2. If the rumor about Amazon going into pharma is true. Philly has Comcast and Eds and Meds (include higher ed and private companies) as the main industries and that's a unique value proposition to provide to Amazon.




http://time.com/money/5109650/amazon-hq2-frontrunner/

If Jeff Bezos and company want to replicate that kind of impact, “they’ll need to find a place with those same characteristics,” says Santiago Gallino, PhD, Professor at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth.

---


Gallino, for his part, is also betting on “City of Brotherly Love.”

“My personal guess is Philadelphia,” he says. “It has comparable statistics to Seattle in size, income, and transportation. It’s pretty much at the center of gravity of the best schools in the North East. And it’s a city that can be flexible in terms of accommodating a large headquarters.”

Ever since Amazon announced the public search for HQ2, it’s stressed the need for a symbiotic relationship — a place where “customers, employees, and the community can all benefit,” as per a company website. Philly certainly fits the bill, according to Gallino.

“I can see Philadelphia making a positive impact on Amazon, and Amazon making a positive impact on Philadelphia,” he says.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

My fwiend SaId iT WoUld be us AnD my poppy' thougt So 2 sO it wil DefInItelY be My CiTy

I'm pretty sure that the people who think this whole exercise is a farce and that no HQ2 will be built are right, and that Amazon has undertaken this project just to elicit comments like this one for their own amusement.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Neither does Raleigh...

I have read that all of the regions being considered either have a rail system in operation or one being planned. Detroit doesn't have any plans for rail transit extensions at this time, so that might have factored. But I'm still skeptical.

Average daily transit ridership in Pittsburgh is nearly 2 1/2 times as high as Detroit, despite Detroit having a population of over double that of Pittsburgh. So for some cities, I think part of the consideration may have been how integral transit is to a city's daily life. Transit is really not part of life in Detroit, but it is pretty integral to Pittsburgh - in some transit stats they only trail Chicago for cities outside of the Northeast corridor.

That doesn't really account for Indy, though, since Indy has average daily ridership of about 1/7th that of Pittsburgh despite being nearly three times the population.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I know Pittsburgh has been rebounding, but why are people so high on it? I guess I'm just struggling to understand why Detroit was written off, but Pittsburgh, a city that experienced just as dramatic a decline, lives to see the second round.

If it really was transit, I guess the only real contenders are New York, Chicago, DC, Philadelphia, and Boston...

First, let's just get this out of the way. Pittsburgh (particularly Pittsburgh proper... not old steel mill towns 20-40 miles away from Pittsburgh that get lumped in as "Pittsburgh") is nothing like Detroit as far as levels of decline and large-scale abandonment go. Pittsburgh's urban neighborhoods have largely remained intact... much more like one can see on the east coast.

Second, Amazon specifically told Detroit in a call to let them know their bid was not selected because they simply did not have the ability to attract the type of talent that Amazon is looking for (aside from the lack of transit). Pittsburgh does have that ability, and has been attracting the talent that Amazon seeks for a decade now... with major increases in the last 5 years... to places like Google, Uber, Apple, Bosch, SAP, CSC, Duolingo, Argo AI, Facebook, etc, etc.

That strong university/talent pipeline component they were seeking... Pittsburgh has two of the nation's top research universities in the core of the city, one of which is arguably the top school for computer science on the planet, at both the undergrad and grad levels. Throw in the significant tech presence already here (and has been here for over a century... like tech long, long before tech was "tech") some transit as far as light rail and BRT goes, and you certainly have a much more fertile environment than Detroit has.

Though I think the fact that Amazon actually called Detroit is a good sign. Supposedly, they didn't call other cities. At least that's what NPR tells me today... but you know NPR, could be fake news.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by emathias

That doesn't really account for Indy, though, since Indy has average daily ridership of about 1/7th that of Pittsburgh despite being nearly three times the population.

for all the people claiming that transit is SO important to amazon, i really want an explanation for indy.

indy is easily one of the least transit-friendly metro areas over 2 million people in the entire nation, yet they made it to round 2.

something doesn't add up here.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I know Pittsburgh has been rebounding, but why are people so high on it? I guess I'm just struggling to understand why Detroit was written off, but Pittsburgh, a city that experienced just as dramatic a decline, lives to see the second round.

If it really was transit, I guess the only real contenders are New York, Chicago, DC, Philadelphia, and Boston...

Not to be a homer, but have you ever been to Pittsburgh? I've lived in both cities, and besides a shared industrial past and decline they have very little in common.

The biggest difference between the two is that Detroit had the highest white flight out of any major city in the Rust Belt, while Pittsburgh had the smallest. Actually it's the only sizable majority-white U.S. city outside of the Pacific Northwest. Lots of stable middle-class (even rich) areas survived right inside of city through the worst period of industrial decline. Along with a lot of 19th century working-class white neighborhoods which were primed for gentrification.

Pittsburgh has a very different downtown than Detroit as well. Downtown employment has been stable at roughly 100,000 since the 1950s. There was never a decamping of office jobs into the suburbs. Due to to quirks of how the city set up its parking policy, downtown has virtually no surface parking lots, and garages are very expensive, meaning less than half of people drive to work.

Also, the Pittsburgh MSA never had an Ann Arbor. Pittsburgh is only college town of the Pittsburgh MSA unless you consider very small towns way out in the boonies. We have a big public university (Pitt) a private STEM-focused university (CMU) and several smaller private schools (Duquense, Chatham, Carlow, and Point Park University) all within city limits. This has given the city a lot of stability - particularly as enrollment in higher education continued to climb.

Finally, out of the cities on the list, aside from NYC, Chicago, DC, Philly, Boston, and Newark, Pittsburgh has the highest transit utilization by a good deal.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

for all the people claiming that transit is SO important to amazon, i really want an explanation for indy.

indy is easily one of the least transit friendly metro areas over 2 million people in the entire nation, yet they made it to round 2.

something doesn't add up here.

Politics. Pure and simple. It's Mike Pence's home state. They didn't want to announce Toronto on the short list and not still trying to appeal to DC politicians.

I think there are some cities on that list who they aren't seriously considering either but they've left in the mix to use them as bargaining chip to get more incentives from their top 3 or 4 locations.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

for all the people claiming that transit is SO important to amazon, i really want an explanation for indy.

indy is easily one of the least transit-friendly metro areas over 2 million people in the entire nation, yet they made it to round 2.

something doesn't add up here.

Maybe it's more about not choosing a city that's a total transportation clusterfuck.

Indy has no transit, but do they have much traffic? It seems like it doesn't have transit because it doesn't need transit. There's just not much there.

The problem with Seattle is that it's a city with a built form that screams out for broad and frequent heavy rail service, but it doesn't have that.

Chicago has traffic, but it can easily be avoided by locating oneself near a Metra station.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

for all the people claiming that transit is SO important to amazon, i really want an explanation for indy.

indy is easily one of the least transit-friendly metro areas over 2 million people in the entire nation, yet they made it to round 2.

something doesn't add up here.

Just like the cost of living thing. It obviously is not important in the scheme of things.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by emathias

Pittsburgh has lost 55% of its population but while still slightly declining, the population has mostly stabilized now. Since 1990 the average has been less than 1% per year with population since 1990 being much more stable than Detroit.

Additionally, Pittsburgh has been widely recognized as managing a transition from an industrial economy to a more advanced, modern economy. Detroit has been a poster child for pretty much the opposite of how a city should manage such a transition. It is, finally, gaining some traction is doing that, mainly due to the dedicated work of a few civic-minded corporate leaders who have intentionally focused on locating and expanding in downtown Detroit. But it is way behind what Pittsburgh has done and continues to do. To note something specific to the HQ2 competition, despite Detroit being over double the population of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh's transit system carries an average of nearly 2 1/2 times as many riders on an average day, indicating that transit is very much better integrated to local culture in Pittsburgh - for cities outside of the Northeast Corridor, Pittsburgh generally only trails Chicago in transit use per capita.

Younger people are moving to Pittsburgh too... it's just not growing in overall numbers yet because there have been so many old people here for so long and well, they're dying.

And one thing about Pittsburgh's industrial economy... the popular notion is that it was nothing but giant steel mills, and then they closed, and there was nothing left. Nothing could be further from the truth. The billionaires of the day, Carnegie and the Mellons, in particular, laid the foundation for venture capital and solidified Pittsburgh as a major center of global innovation a century ago. I'm not suggesting that you don't know this, just that the popular belief seems to an image of a completely dead, dirty steel town that all of a sudden said, "hey, you know what? Let's do tech!", and then all was good again.

The dramatic turnaround makes for a good story, but Pittsburgh has been a highly prominent advanced scientific/technical research center for most of its existence.

[Kngkyle]

Finally some worthwhile analysis

Amazon will choose Chicago because other locations are hot garbage

...

To understand my confidence, first consider the overwhelming awfulness of Amazon’s other options, which I have summed up in the following 100 percent factual list:

Atlanta — A fetid swamp, hotter than the sun.

Austin — Riddled with weirdos.

Boston — Basically a bar fight that turned into a city.

Columbus — LOL!

Dallas — Likely to secede.

Denver — Stoners cannot be trusted.

Indianapolis — More serial killers per capita than anywhere in the nation.

Los Angeles — Likely to be jettisoned into the sea by an angry God.

Miami — Distractingly sexy.

Montgomery County, Md. — Maryland is inhabited largely by cannibals and mole people.

Nashville — The birthplace of nausea.

Newark — Buildings are made of solidified smog.

New York City — Only place in America that still has independent bookstores, making it horribly off-brand.

Northern Virginia — Too vague.

Philadelphia — Biggest selling point is a cracked bell.

Pittsburgh — Average life expectancy is 14.

Raleigh — Nobody actually knows where this is.

Toronto — Un-American.

Washington, D.C. — A hive of deception and villainy.

....

I assume the company has already made the obvious decision to choose us, but to help Amazon let the other contenders down easy, I have some facts and data on why Chicago is the logical pick:

• In 2017, Chicagoans were ranked “Most Amenable To Having Heavy Objects Dropped On Them By Swarms of Delivery Drones” by Drone Delivery Magazine.

• The Tribune reported that some of the main things Amazon is looking for are “access to a major airport, public transportation, top universities and well-educated workers.” With the exception of me, we have all of those things!

• Chicago is centrally located, making it an ideal place for a massive online retailer to stretch out its tentacles and connect with consumers eager to never leave their homes again.

• We would be willing to give Amazon the naming rights to virtually anything in the city. Millennium Park could easily become Amazon Park, home of the famous Bezos Bean. The Willis Tower could be emptied out and dubbed the Amazon Obelisk. Tickets for Chicago sports teams could be available only to Amazon Prime members.

• Chicago is a city rich in handsome newspaper columnists. This may not be entirely important to Amazon’s shareholders, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

• We have widespread and much-sought-after corruption that will allow a corporation like Amazon to thrive, unlike other competing cities whose officials wouldn’t know a bribe if it bonked them in the noggin.

• Our climate is temperate and steady, with summer and winter being virtually indistinguishable.

• Our inland location puts us well out of range of any North Korean missiles, and as rising sea levels consume the East and West coasts, Chicago will likely be the last major city to be submerged.

• We’re the Second City and this is Amazon’s second headquarters. C’mon, this stuff pretty much writes itself.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opini...s-hq2-chicago-huppke-20180118-story.html

[JManc]

The Tribune's assessment of Maryland is spot on.

[IrishIllini]

I assumed my post would ruffle some feathers, but I was interested in hearing what people from Pittsburgh had to say. I actually like Pittsburgh and think it's a very charming city. The rivers and hills are beautiful.

Pittsburgh has its fair share of blight. Detroit's blight is more pronounced, but its MSA is close to double Pittsburgh's. It also peaked at nearly 2,000,000 whereas Pittsburgh never crossed 700,000. Pittsburgh certainly has beautiful neighborhoods. Squirrel Hill is wonderful. Again, I'm not saying this to belittle Pittsburgh and it's strengths, but I'm genuinely surprised that it is still a consideration for HQ2 and Detroit is not.