Amazon HQ2 thread

[Northern Light]

In respect of the above, keep in mind that the Cdn dollar is currently about .80c US.

So you have to apply a 20% discount on the cost in Cdn dollars for a direct comparison.

That is obviously also true of salaries, leases, etc.

[pj3000]

In many ways, I'd like to see Amazon pick Toronto.

For one, it would be great to see Bezos give a big middle finger to Trump and say publicly to him, "I'm the richest man on the planet, you fat, inherited money, ass pimple, and your stupid immigration policies (among many, many other faults) made me choose to locate in Canada instead of the US".

[10023]

Originally Posted by pj3000

In many ways, I'd like to see Amazon pick Toronto.

For one, it would be great to see Bezos give a big middle finger to Trump and say publicly to him, "I'm the richest man on the planet, you fat, inherited money, ass pimple, and your stupid immigration policies (among many, many other faults) made me choose to locate in Canada instead of the US".

Or better, Amazon realizes that they are planning for the next 20-30 years and Trump will be gone in 3, so they ignore his stupid (and as yet unenforceable) immigration "policies".

[chris08876]

Holy crap... Newark made it to the top 20!

Very nice. All fine cities in the top 20 but Newark... good for Newark. This is an achievement right here. Even if Newark doesn't get it, it must mean the city is doing something right.

Ultimately, my bias wants NJ/NY to have it, but out of the top 20, I'd be happy if it went to Philly. They deserve it. While the NY Giants will always be a better team, they do need HQ2 in their lives. If not... thats why baby Jesus invented Hudson Yards. So if Philly is not up to the challenge, we'll take it from there.

I'd be a shame if it went to Northern Virginia. Newark could really use it though. Help jump start an even bigger boom.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Bezos left Miami to go to college at Princeton and then went to work on Wall Street for a while before moving to Seattle and founding Amazon.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that.

UM is a top university, but the Miami area in general cannot compete with many of the other cities' academic/research pipeline to companies. However, Miami has been developing more of a "tech" presence in the last 5 years especially, with all the big players opening offices there... as the hub for their burgeoning Latin American operations, so I would not be surprised if Miami actually wins out.

That's true. But there is potential for growth, especially with Latin America nearby and Europe/Africa across the Atlantic. This could help Amazon have more of a global presence. The global presence can sort of be established in Atlanta with the airport, NYC, Toronto, and a few other contenders.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 10023

This implies that you see ethnic or cultural background as a matter of genetics rather than environment, which is... curious, in this day and age.

Black kids raised by white parents are not white.

[C.]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Black kids raised by white parents are not white.

Interesting comment...

[llamaorama]

Most of the top 20 are good, except Indianapolis(I hope that wasn't politically motivated).

I hope they go to either Chicago, one of the east coast cities, or Austin. Austin would be convenient for me, while I would never work for Amazon personally it would still be a boost for the whole of IT employment and wages in the region.

Miami sounds like a really poor choice IMO. Hurricanes and cultural differences with the rest of the country.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 10023

Except it won't really work that way.

They can't possibly be thinking of duplicating specific functions across two HQs or having people work entirely by telepresence. That just doesn't work, no matter how often it's tried. Rather they will have different teams in each place. So there might be software engineers at both offices, finance people at both offices, lawyers at both offices... but the team that develops AI for Alexa is going to need to sit together. So a specific individual being hired for a specific role based on their experience and knowledge is not necessarily going to be able to choose.

Absolutely, but still, if I'm, say, a super-talented software engineer, and Amazon wants me, and I really don't want to be in Seattle for some reason, they may still hire me and assign me to a team that's in Atlanta.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

Not exactly.

First thing is to say, there is no Canadian Health Care System. There are 13 provincial and territorial systems which all comply w/the Federal Canada Health Act.

But each system has slight variations in coverage and in the way it is financed.

For general purposes.

Canada's single-payer healthcare system covers family doctors and almost all hospital based coverage. That is the federal requirement.

While prescription drug (outside of hospitals) do not have to be covered, most provinces cover all or a significant portion of drugs for seniors, those on social assistance and/or disability pensions.

Some provinces cover more (such as outpatient cancer drugs, or experimental/expensive drugs etc.).

Some provinces also have low-income dental coverage.

***

That said, many employers in Canada offer 'supplemental' private insurance which may pay for prescriptions/dental/vision/medical devices (hearing aids etc.) as well as non-hospital based physio and the like.

This is entirely optional, and typically inexpensive relative to comprehensive American health insurance.

***

Most of the costs of our 'systems' are financed through general tax revenue income/sales/corporate, as opposed to a payroll tax.

However, some provinces do have partial payroll tax.

Ontario as an example charges 1.95% of payroll greater than $400,000

That still amounts all-in to a tiny fraction of what U.S. employers fork out for private health insurance.

The tax portion in ON, for instance, would be $1,950 on a $100,000 pay pkg.

Appreciate the details. Do Canadians on average pay a lot more in income taxes?

[Car(e)-Free LA]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Only because I assume that they don't want another city on the West Coast.

Where did this idea (and the idea that Amazon cares about housing costs) come from, anyway?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Car(e)-Free LA

Where did this idea (and the idea that Amazon cares about housing costs) come from, anyway?

Obviously an assumption since they are already on the west coast. If they have a chance to put a second HQ somewhere then you would guess that they take advantage of putting it in closer proximity to the majority of the nation's (or continent's) population.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by 10023

Or better, Amazon realizes that they are planning for the next 20-30 years and Trump will be gone in 3, so they ignore his stupid (and as yet unenforceable) immigration "policies".

Well yeah, I guess that's a more level-headed response.

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Miami sounds like a really poor choice IMO. Hurricanes and cultural differences with the rest of the country.

New York and DC were damaged to a much greater extent by a hurricane in recent years than Miami has been.

And yeah, those darn cultural differences with the rest of the country... sad!

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by CIA

It would be funny if Toronto gets it. They're offering no incentives.

They don't need to. Global tech is beating a path to Toronto because of what's there. It's the fastest growing major tech market in the north America; growing faster than NYC and SF combined in 2015-2016. Winning the HQ2 would be a feather in its cap but their tech sector will continue to boom win or lose.


http://www.cbre.ca/EN/mediacentre/Pages/...80%99s-Annual-Tech-Talent-Scorecard.aspx
https://www.bnn.ca/technology/video/toro...-that-nyc-san-francisco-combined~1173683

[Car(e)-Free LA]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Obviously an assumption since they are already on the west coast. If they have a chance to put a second HQ somewhere then you would guess that they take advantage of putting it in closer proximity to the majority of the nation's (or continent's) population.

But how does that actually benefit them?

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by 10023

Or better, Amazon realizes that they are planning for the next 20-30 years and Trump will be gone in 3, so they ignore his stupid (and as yet unenforceable) immigration "policies".

The thing is, President Trump didn't come from a vacuum. The conditions that led to him being elected have been brewing for decades. If for the sake of the argument Bezos is moving to insulate Amazon from the policies of Trump and others like him, it's not a reaction to a single person. It's a long term move.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Appreciate the details. Do Canadians on average pay a lot more in income taxes?

I wouldn't say a lot.

At least in Ontario or the western provinces. Rates in Quebec and some Atlantic provinces are higher.

Of course, it varies by income level, one must count variations in payroll tax, deductions, and how non-employment income is treated.

I can't possibly compare to every province to every state.

But for the sake example, it might look something like this in ON.

$50,000Cdn in employment income.

- basic federal deduction of $12,000

So 38k taxable

All of that would be in the low bracket which is 15% Federal and 5% Provincial in ON.

So you would pay 20% of 38k before deductions.

Or

15.2%

However, as in the US you can deduct for retirement savings.

We can also deduct for saving for a child's education

But we can't deduct Mortgage Interest.

Though we can deduct a portion of rent.

As with your tax code there are myriad smaller deductions as well.

****

The above doesn't account for payroll taxes, but those, on balance are a bit lower here than in the U.S. in my experience.

Non-employment income is a different matter.

Here Capital Gains are taxed at 1/2 the normal rate, principal residence sale is exempt.

Income in retirement/education savings is exempt as is income in a Tax-Free Savings Account (can include mutual funds/bonds etc., limit of 5k per year since you begin paying tax).

****

If you have children, you also get a cash-transfer back called the National Child Benefit.

This pays a sum up to $6,400 per year, per child for low-income families and phases to zero at about 200k in annual income.

And of course we either don't pay for health insurance or pay a small portion of the employer supplementary plan, depending on your employer.

****

Its all a good deal more complex than that.

But on balance I would say taxes are similar'ish to slightly higher up to middle income levels.

They are somewhat higher on high and very high income.

Where the max marginal rate is about 50% in Ontario. Where this kicks in is complicated by different federal and prov. brackets. But somewhere in the range of 200k.

But keep in mind that is marginal, not average at that income. So you wouldn't be paying anywhere near that % in the real world.

[Prahaboheme]

Originally Posted by Car(e)-Free LA

But how does that actually benefit them?

It doesn't. And in fact, LA's proximity to Seattle is probably an advantage, not a disadvantage.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Appreciate the details. Do Canadians on average pay a lot more in income taxes?

No, taxes work out roughly the same. The difference is explained in what each country prioritizes. In the case of the US it's defense spending. In Canada it's health/education. I think I read somewhere that the benefit to Amazon of choosing a Canadian HQ would amount to $650 million in cost savings every year. That's a big carrot.

[YSL]

On the metro level, NY, LA and DC are the only metro areas on the list where you wouldn't really notice an additional well-off 50,000 workers.

Interesting if Amazon is not looking to 'transform' anywhere, and simply wants to be absorbed and not blamed for rocketing cost of living.