Tempe Development Thread

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

I don't necessarily see the retirement age residents contributing to traffic congestion more or less than college or working age residents. If anything, I would think they'd be one of the more likely groups to walk for a large percentage of trips.

If traffic does noticeably worsen though, it will be interesting to see if there is an increase in interest in the idea that has been batted around the city council to close University to cars from Rural to Mill.

Part of what contributes to road rage and traffic collisions are drivers going too slow, which leads to surrounding traffic aggressively maneuvering around them, and slow reaction times. That absolutely is something olds are bad at, which will be even more hazardous here with so many young bicyclists and other pedestrians zipping all over the place. Drive around any highly dense retirement community and it'll be immediately obvious how many drivers shouldn't be on the road. It's mainly a safety concern for me here.

Even if they have access to a personal driver, so many old people are too stubborn to give up their independence in that regard that it'll still likely be a noticeable problem.

Edit: This also appears to be an updated rendering that I haven't seen posted here

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by stutteringpunk

Part of what contributes to road rage and traffic collisions are drivers going too slow, which leads to surrounding traffic aggressively maneuvering around them, and slow reaction times. That absolutely is something olds are bad at, which will be even more hazardous here with so many young bicyclists and other pedestrians zipping all over the place. Drive around any highly dense retirement community and it'll be immediately obvious how many drivers shouldn't be on the road. It's mainly a safety concern for me here.

Even if they have access to a personal driver, so many old people are too stubborn to give up their independence in that regard that it'll still likely be a noticeable problem.

Edit: This also appears to be an updated rendering that I haven't seen posted here

Aren't you guys forgetting about the advent of self driving cars? What you are worried about may be a totally mute point in just a very few years.

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

Aren't you guys forgetting about the advent of self driving cars? What you are worried about may be a totally mute point in just a very few years.

Self driving cars aren't going to be that widespread in only a few years. I'd wager the cost will be prohibitive for at least another 8-10 years.

[Renz]

Originally Posted by stutteringpunk

Self driving cars aren't going to be that widespread in only a few years. I'd wager the cost will be prohibitive for at least another 8-10 years.

Considering ASU is handling the operations of this retirement building, it's possible ASU might partner up with Uber to use their self driving cars for the elderly. To me its a no brainier because those self driving Uber cars are already littered over downtown. Why not take advantage of it? Not only would this completely remove issues relating to traffic congestion and road safety, multiple elders can hop on 1 self driving car and go about their business.

[muertecaza]

Next door to Mirabella, the City of Tempe has negotiated a development agreement with Omni for the hotel/conference center proposed at the corner of Mill/University, and will vote to approve the agreement this week.

Details available here.

ASU will retain ownership of the land, and Omni would get a 60 year ground lease. The City basically agrees to pay back to Omni 100% of sales tax and bed tax generated by the project for the first 10 years, and 90% of sales tax and bed tax up for years 11 through 30 of the 30 year development agreement, with a maximum contribution by the City of $21m (present value as of completion of the hotel).

Seems like a massive tax giveaway. They must really want the convention space. But the agreement only calls for 30,000 sq. ft. of convention space, which isn't that much more than the 20,000 sq. ft. at Royal Palms, and isn't in the same league as the 900,000 sq. ft. available in Phoenix. Tempe would also get some naming rights in the hotel, Omni would agree to promote tourism in Tempe, and Tempe would get some free use of the convention space. But again, doesn't seem to justify the tax outlay.

Of course, then again, because it's ASU land, the City currently gets $0 from the land, so that probably affects their willingness to pay out tax proceeds to get something revenue producing built.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Next door to Mirabella, the City of Tempe has negotiated a development agreement with Omni for the hotel/conference center proposed at the corner of Mill/University, and will vote to approve the agreement this week.

Details available here.

ASU will retain ownership of the land, and Omni would get a 60 year ground lease. The City basically agrees to pay back to Omni 100% of sales tax and bed tax generated by the project for the first 10 years, and 90% of sales tax and bed tax up for years 11 through 30 of the 30 year development agreement, with a maximum contribution by the City of $21m (present value as of completion of the hotel).

Seems like a massive tax giveaway. They must really want the convention space. But the agreement only calls for 30,000 sq. ft. of convention space, which isn't that much more than the 20,000 sq. ft. at Royal Palms, and isn't in the same league as the 900,000 sq. ft. available in Phoenix. Tempe would also get some naming rights in the hotel, Omni would agree to promote tourism in Tempe, and Tempe would get some free use of the convention space. But again, doesn't seem to justify the tax outlay.

Of course, then again, because it's ASU land, the City currently gets $0 from the land, so that probably affects their willingness to pay out tax proceeds to get something revenue producing built.

Was there ever a rendering for the Omni?

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Was there ever a rendering for the Omni?

Omni was originally part of the USA Place complex that never happened. I don't think there was ever another rendering outside of that.


*Edit:
I take that back. I did find this on Nord Architect's website. I do not know if this rendering was part of USA Place or if this is a newer rendering for the proposed Omni. The rendering links to Marriott Renaissance, but the rendering says Omni on the roof branding. Either way, here it is:



https://nordarchitects.com/portfolio/hotels-resorts/

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Omni was originally part of the USA Place complex that never happened. I don't think there was ever another rendering outside of that.


*Edit:
I take that back. I did find this on Nord Architect's website. I do not know if this rendering was part of USA Place or if this is a newer rendering for the proposed Omni. The rendering links to Marriott Renaissance, but the rendering says Omni on the roof branding. Either way, here it is:



https://nordarchitects.com/portfolio/hotels-resorts/

I think that's an outdated rendering since it's more or less in the spot of Mirabella, and it includes buildings from the scrapped complex. I don't know how often developers reuse plans from previous projects, but maybe it'll look something like it if the blueprints already exist in some form.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Was there ever a rendering for the Omni?

I haven't seen an updated rendering. Closest I've seen is the rudimentary site plan presented to ABOR, reproduced here: http://kjzz.org/content/396468/times-charm-asu-plans-hotel-conference-center-mill-avenue-lot

[combusean]

ASU has wanted an on-campus hotel and convention space for a very long time. The only thing that sort of exists for the latter is the MU last I checked.

[muertecaza]

Park Place, Broadstone at 101/Rio Salado, Apache+Oak, and some townhomes off Farmer all passed the DRC tonight. Only significant discussion involved the townhomes.

DRC also approved proposed zoning changes expanding the availability of ADUs.

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Park Place, Broadstone at 101/Rio Salado, Apache+Oak, and some townhomes off Farmer all passed the DRC tonight. Only significant discussion involved the townhomes.

DRC also approved proposed zoning changes expanding the availability of ADUs.

I wish we could see the Hawaiian BBQ proposal already, but I'm glad we know the cleanup on Apache will likely continue. The Park Place bridge should look cool.

[Socalzonie]

Originally Posted by stutteringpunk

I wish we could see the Hawaiian BBQ proposal already, but I'm glad we know the cleanup on Apache will likely continue. The Park Place bridge should look cool.

There is a rendering now on the tempe arcgis site for The Hayden. Is that the one you are looking for?

http://tempegov.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Shortlist/index.html?appid=e2b8a9338e3948c0ab6abf93b858f508

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by Socalzonie

There is a rendering now on the tempe arcgis site for The Hayden. Is that the one you are looking for?

http://tempegov.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Shortlist/index.html?appid=e2b8a9338e3948c0ab6abf93b858f508

That's it. I thought we weren't going to see renderings until later this month, just never saw it posted here.

[RichTempe]

Originally Posted by stutteringpunk

Man, traffic is already bad near university as it is. Unpopular opinion, but throwing olds into the mix might make it even worse.

Originally Posted by Renz

After speaking to several of my buds about this, they shared the same opinion as you and now I'm starting to think it isn't so great either.

There's an ecosystem in this city, and throwing olds in the middle of a downtown with their Prius into busy intersections might be a traffic nightmare for everyone else. It also works both ways. A loud town square isn't my idea of a retirement home.

I can't tell if you 2 are serious or trying to get reactions here. "Throwing olds into the middle of a downtown with their Prius"? WTF? I guess we should stop building the hotels too since that will bring in tourists and everyone knows none of them know where the hell they're going, so that'll piss people off. And no more high rise residential either, since that just brings in the hipsters who can't drive unless they're looking at their iPhone. Oh, and I forgot to mention the streetcar. That ought to really enrage people trying to drive through downtown Tempe at 60 miles an hour. It'll be traffic gridlock!!

I'm by no means an 'old', but then again maybe you think anyone over 25 is; I really can't fathom your thought processes here. Billions of dollars have been and are going to continue to be invested into Tempe over the next years and it's just not so people 18-30 can have a place to play free from anyone not of their generation.

Just think about how offensive your words sound if you replace 'olds' with whatever racial/ethnic stereotype that was popular in the 60's or 70's or even today. Maybe you wouldn't be so afraid of them if you knew some. From your comments it doesn't sound like you do. Not everyone over 55 wants to live in godawful Sun City or Seizure World afterall.

[exit2lef]

The Tempe City Council approved the Omni deal 6-1 tonight. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if there is some attempt at meddling from the state legislature. It's normal for Republicans with conservative or libertarian leanings to oppose these types of arrangements, but even one of Tempe's Democratic representatives spoke out against this one.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by RichTempe

I can't tell if you 2 are serious or trying to get reactions here. "Throwing olds into the middle of a downtown with their Prius"? WTF? I guess we should stop building the hotels too since that will bring in tourists and everyone knows none of them know where the hell they're going, so that'll piss people off. And no more high rise residential either, since that just brings in the hipsters who can't drive unless they're looking at their iPhone. Oh, and I forgot to mention the streetcar. That ought to really enrage people trying to drive through downtown Tempe at 60 miles an hour. It'll be traffic gridlock!!

I'm by no means an 'old', but then again maybe you think anyone over 25 is; I really can't fathom your thought processes here. Billions of dollars have been and are going to continue to be invested into Tempe over the next years and it's just not so people 18-30 can have a place to play free from anyone not of their generation.

Just think about how offensive your words sound if you replace 'olds' with whatever racial/ethnic stereotype that was popular in the 60's or 70's or even today. Maybe you wouldn't be so afraid of them if you knew some. From your comments it doesn't sound like you do. Not everyone over 55 wants to live in godawful Sun City or Seizure World afterall.

Amen, man! I really don't understand some of these comments here. Millenials? I guess I'm an old guy that's irrelevant now (mid-40's). But, damn, investment in Tempe, Phoenix, Arizona is a GOOD THING. We're already nearing 5 million in metro so it's about raising standard of living and the only way you do that is through economic development. We've already out-grown the freeway expansion that was planned back in 1985 and only recently completed. Already need two more lanes each way and more arterial freeways. Sorry, what was the questions? lol

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by RichTempe

I can't tell if you 2 are serious or trying to get reactions here. "Throwing olds into the middle of a downtown with their Prius"? WTF? I guess we should stop building the hotels too since that will bring in tourists and everyone knows none of them know where the hell they're going, so that'll piss people off. And no more high rise residential either, since that just brings in the hipsters who can't drive unless they're looking at their iPhone. Oh, and I forgot to mention the streetcar. That ought to really enrage people trying to drive through downtown Tempe at 60 miles an hour. It'll be traffic gridlock!!

I'm by no means an 'old', but then again maybe you think anyone over 25 is; I really can't fathom your thought processes here. Billions of dollars have been and are going to continue to be invested into Tempe over the next years and it's just not so people 18-30 can have a place to play free from anyone not of their generation.

Just think about how offensive your words sound if you replace 'olds' with whatever racial/ethnic stereotype that was popular in the 60's or 70's or even today. Maybe you wouldn't be so afraid of them if you knew some. From your comments it doesn't sound like you do. Not everyone over 55 wants to live in godawful Sun City or Seizure World afterall.

Comparing legitimate concern for traffic conditions and the safety of local residents to actual racism is so ridiculously disingenuous and misguided it completely delegitimizes any point you we're trying to make. It almost makes me sick that you could make such a comparison. I barely even need to touch the fact that you completely misconstrued who I am and what I represent in some vain attempt to dismantle my argument. You yourself are doing the very thing you're accusing me of.

Compared to virtually every other state, Arizona drivers licenses are valid for an absurd amount of time. Elsewhere, your state license can be used for 5-6 years. Here, valid until you're 65, you're only required to update your picture and take a vision test once every 12 years. I don't need to spell out how that means waaaay too many people with a visual impairment, something much more likely in the elderly, are staying on the road when they shouldn't. In a highly dense urban environment with people zipping all over streets and bike lanes, that could be disastrous.

Drive anywhere close to places like Leisure World and it quickly becomes obvious to anyone how traffic flows differently in the surrounding area. There are many more drivers going up to 15 miles below the speed limit on a frequent basis compared to other parts of the valley. That breeds aggressive driving and, and in turn, leads to more accidents. Again, in a space as populated as downtown Tempe, any increase in collisions would be a logistical nightmare.

My point is, it would have been better to move the complex closer the Greek village or Barrett instead of smack dab in the middle of one of the busiest streets in the East Valley.

[exit2lef]

Coverage of last night's Omni vote:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...-conference-center-too-steep/1020421001/

[Obadno]

Having concerns for traffic in Downtown Tempe is stupid, the traffic has been terrible for years already, it’s an urban area. If you don’t want to deal with traffic don’t live in an urban area.